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Old 07-24-2003, 04:59 PM   #1
Porkchop-WRX
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Default Anyone with autometer guages...

How do you like them. I was looking at the sport-comp and they are a much cheaper alternative to Omori or Defi. I have heard some problems with the standard EGT thermocouple they offer with the guage. They offer a beefier one that most people already have. Give me your opinions.
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Old 07-25-2003, 10:55 AM   #2
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ttt

somebody has to have it. C'mon post it up.
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Old 07-25-2003, 12:22 PM   #3
kenchan
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im not using EGT, but other autometer guages and they work fantastic (for now at least, :lol )
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Old 07-25-2003, 12:50 PM   #4
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Default no problems

Auto Meter Sport Comp boost, oil press, and oil temp. No problems after at least a year. The only minor thing is the boost gauge needle does not rest in exactly the center of the zero box when the engine is off.
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Old 07-25-2003, 12:57 PM   #5
chrisdeaner
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I have Auto-Meter Phantom Boost and EGT. The only problem with the EGT gauge is with the little converter box you have to hide away; sometimes the wires from the probe disconnect, as the clamps inthe box are of poor quality. However, if you get them in there and zip tie the wire to something, you should be fine. Otherwise, same problem with the Boost gauge, it doesn't rest at zero. Make sure you replace the cheap ass plastic boost line with a rubber run per instructions at scoobymods
-Chris
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Old 07-25-2003, 01:17 PM   #6
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Default boost gage resting at zero..

Just wanted to add that my AutoGage mechanical boost gauge rests at zero. I can make it not rest at zero if I pinch the boost gauge casing, but it's most likely because the pressure diaphragm gets deformed when I pinch the casing.
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Old 07-25-2003, 02:15 PM   #7
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I have been using autometer for some time (4 years) and i really like them. I've had the sportcompact (egt, af and boost) guages in my turbo integra, and no problems. I did a very non-scientific comparison with a greddy, autometer and vdo boost guage. The vdo was off by 1 psi and the greddy and the autometer boost guage gave me the same result so i assume the autometer was accurate, but i could be wrong, it maybe that the vdo was dead on.

I also have a westech EGT guage and probe and i did a non scientific comparison with the autometer probe and guage with the westech probe and guage and again, my results were almost the same...well within 10-25 degrees F. With the autometer reading a little higher.
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Old 07-25-2003, 02:18 PM   #8
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Very nice thanks guys. Some people have problem with the more expensive guages so I figure I'll take my chances with these. They are less then 1/3 the price anyway and they look fine. besides its function over looks anyway.
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Old 07-25-2003, 02:23 PM   #9
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They're actually great gauges! My logic is that the technology put into them are similar to (or the same as) what NASCAR requires/uses. However, if you purchase a boost gauge and the needle is not a the zero mark, just return it and get a new on. Buy from summit racing, returns are easier.
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Old 07-25-2003, 04:53 PM   #10
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Yeah Summit Racing is definitly the way to go. Quick delivery and great prices.
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Old 07-27-2003, 02:24 AM   #11
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The reason for a slight variance in a mechanical boost guage reading(engine off) is that the guage is reading atmospheric pressure, which changes with the weather. That is why there is no actual 'zero' reading, but a 'window'. If the guage consistantly reads above or below the 'window', then it is out of calibration and needs to be recalibrated or replaced.

I am on my second autometer boost guage as the first one went out of calibration after about a week. The new one seems to give an identical reading compared to what my UTEC shows.

Last edited by Uncle Scotty; 07-27-2003 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 07-27-2003, 01:13 PM   #12
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Default gauge = measurement - atmospheric pressure

Quote:
The reason for a slight variance in a mechanical boost guage reading(engine off) is that the guage is reading atmospheric pressure, which changes with the weather.
I have to disagree.

When the engine is off, the measuring end of the boost gauge should measure atmospheric pressure.

Since all (or most) mechanical boost gauges read gage pressure (i.e. the difference between the measured pressure and atmospheric pressure), no matter what the atmospheric pressure is, it should read 0 "gage". Afaik, no mechanical gage pressure sensor reads gage by taking the pressure measurement and subtracting it by a constant "assumed atmospheric pressure". Instead, it will read the pressure measurement of interest, and compares it with its surrounding (i.e. atmospheric pressure) via a diaphraghm. The amount of diaphraghm compression is proportional to the difference in pressure between the two ends (e.g. boost measurement & atmosphere), and is translated mechanically into needle movement on the gauge dial.

Electrical boost gauges use a similar concept, although it converts deflection due to difference between measured & atmospheric pressure into an electric signal.

The following are accepted industrial definitions of gage, differential, vacuum, & absolute pressure, in which I am basing my argument from. It's taken from honeywell's (they make industrial sensors, controllers, etc.) site at:
http://catalog.sensing.honeywell.com...&FeatureID=425
---------------------
Differential Pressure Sensor: A sensor that and compares two independent pressure sources. The output is proportional to the pressure difference between the two sources.

Gage Pressure Sensor: A form of differential pressure measurement in which atmospheric pressure is used as the reference (where atmosphere is one of the two sources).

Vacuum Gage Sensor: The measurement of vacuum or negative pressure in relationship to atmospheric pressure. A zero reading occurs when no vacuum is present

Absolute Pressure Sensor: Measurement of input pressure in relation to an absolute vacuum (zero pressure). Absolute sensors are manufactured to maintain zero pressure on one side of the sensor’s diaphragm (zero pressure or a vacuum is approximately equivalent to what is found in outer space). When the sensor’s port is open to atmosphere, the atmospheric pressure will be measured in relationship to an absolute vacuum or zero pressure.
---------------------
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Old 07-27-2003, 04:19 PM   #13
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QUOTE]Originally posted by satrya

I have to disagree.

When the engine is off, the measuring end of the boost gauge should measure atmospheric pressure.

---------------------
[/quote]

This is EXACTLY what I said.

The boost guage is acting as a barometer, barometric pressure is constantly changing.
Most mechanical pressure guages contain a bourdon tube, which when calibrated measures changes in pressure. How the guage is calibrated and graduated determines want kind of pressure and pressure change it is deseigned to measure.

When the engine is off, this type of guage reads atmospheric pressure. Atmospheric pressure changes, this is one way that weather changes are predicted.
A mechanical boost guage is for all intents and purposes, a barometer when the engine is not running....SO....
Autometer(and many other mechanical boost guages) mechanical boost guages have no real 'zero' because they act as barometers with the engine off. The slight barometric pressure changes move the pointer up and down with changing atmospheric pressure, hence the 'window' marked on the guage.
If the guage were graduated for it, it clould also be used as an altimeter.
Yeah, I know 760mm Hg or 29.92in. Hg is 'standard atmospheric pressure' at sea level as in STP...almost nobody is at STP at any given time.
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Old 07-27-2003, 06:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
The boost guage is acting as a barometer, barometric pressure is constantly changing.
Most mechanical pressure guages contain a bourdon tube, which when calibrated measures changes in pressure. How the guage is calibrated and graduated determines want kind of pressure and pressure change it is deseigned to measure.

When the engine is off, this type of guage reads atmospheric pressure.[/b]
This is getting off-topic, so my apologies to the thread starter.

We agree that mechanical boost gauge reads atmospheric pressure when the engine is off. I was merely starting with the statement which I believe we both agree.

I believe the source of disagreement is how the gage pressure measurement is made. Afaik, the pressure sensor of a boost gauge takes two measurements. One is from an open port that should measure the surrounding pressure (let's call this P1), and another from the measuring port that is supposed to be connected to whatever line that measures boost/vacuum (call it P2). My understanding is that the boost gauge should read P2-P1. If that is the case, whether the current atmospheric pressure is 14.7atm or other value, a properly calibrated boost gauge will always read P2-P1=0.

Afaik, a barometer differs slightly from a boost gauge that measures gage pressure, in that a barometer has a sealed chamber as the atmospheric reference (that provides a constant reference regardless of the situation), and a measuring port to measure the current pressure.
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Old 07-27-2003, 09:13 PM   #15
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Boost is shown on the guage as pressure above atmospheric ie. barometric + boost pressure. Vacuume is pressure LESS than atmospheric.
The guage is at atmospheric to start, gets sucked to VAC(below atmospheric) on start, and when the turbo spools and produces BOOSTED pressure in the intake manifold the guage reads the ammount ABOVE atmospheric pressure.


My apologies, also, to the thread starter as I am an A&Paircraft mechanic of 20 years trying to explain the function of of a very simple guage which I have dealt with many times.
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Old 07-27-2003, 10:03 PM   #16
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I've got Autometer Phantom gauges, Oil temp, Oil pressure and EGT mounted in a dash top factoy pod.

Make sure to get the separate EGT gauge and competition style probe rather than the kit.


This is the higher quality stuff, and is expensive, about $210 for the set, but you'll get the quickest response on the EGT gauge. You'll actually see the temps dip in the 1/2 second it takes you to shift gears.

They light up green at night which is a perfect match for the radio and climate control lighting.

For a pretty good deal on some prefabbed autometer stuff in the Subaru pod check out the WRXTRA web page.

Gonz.
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Old 07-28-2003, 08:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Scotty
Boost is shown on the guage as pressure above atmospheric ie. barometric + boost pressure. Vacuume is pressure LESS than atmospheric.
The guage is at atmospheric to start, gets sucked to VAC(below atmospheric) on start, and when the turbo spools and produces BOOSTED pressure in the intake manifold the guage reads the ammount ABOVE atmospheric pressure.


My apologies, also, to the thread starter as I am an A&Paircraft mechanic of 20 years trying to explain the function of of a very simple guage which I have dealt with many times.
scotty,

there is no absolute pressure reference in an autometer mechanical boost gauge.

it should read dead zero when the engine is off... no matter what the weather is, or how high you are in altitude. it merely indicates the difference in pressures between where the gauge face is, and the pressure in the sensor tube.

so, if you pressurize your passenger compartment, it won't read correctly anymore!

ken
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Old 07-28-2003, 10:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by ride5000


scotty,

there is no absolute pressure reference in an autometer mechanical boost gauge.

it should read dead zero when the engine is off... no matter what the weather is, or how high you are in altitude. it merely indicates the difference in pressures between where the gauge face is, and the pressure in the sensor tube.

so, if you pressurize your passenger compartment, it won't read correctly anymore!

ken
I give up.
I'm sorry you can fail to understand the function of a simple bourdon tube type guage.
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Old 07-29-2003, 12:34 AM   #19
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if you're so gifted, why don't you try explaining how it is that autometer can sell so many mechanical boost gauges and NEVER ONCE ask the customer what altitude they'll be using the car at?

are you telling me atmospheric pressure is the same from cape cod to denver?

if it's not, then explain how the boost gauge magically remains zeroed. is there a trim knob no one knows about, that never needs setting?

most bourdon tube meters work on pressure DIFFERENTIALS not ABSOLUTES... that's why they all read pressures in relation to atmospheric (since that's what the reference is).

now, it IS possible to have an absolute reading bourdon tube meter. all you have to do it fix the pressure that the gauge uses as a reference. for example, if you could evacuate all the air from the autometer gauge it would become an absolute pressure gauge... ie. when the engine was off, it would read ATMOSPHERIC pressure. in that case, it WOULD vary with the weather, and altitude, and so on, but that's not what we want to measure!

folks, listen to me--if any mechanical pressure gauge does not read zero when you take it out of the box, send it back, and get one that does. it's that simple.

the "window" is there because the autometer is a 40 dollar gauge. that's it!

i'm not trying to be argumentative here, scotty, but you really seem to be misunderstanding how these particular gauges are set up.
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Old 07-29-2003, 01:22 AM   #20
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Question

I hope we can keep this as objective as possible. Although this is somewhat off-topic from the original post, I feel that it's a worthy topic to discuss.

Suppose we assume that:
[A1] the engine is off
[A2] the measuring port of the gauge is connected to the correct place, say, the oem "bov" (never mind the fact that it's not a real bov).
[A3] the gauge is working properly
[A4] the mechanical gauge uses a bourdon tube mechanism such as shown in the figure below
As a reference, I am attaching the photo below, taken from
http://www.princeton.edu/~humcomp/sophlab/ther_13.htm just so we all talk about the same mechanical design.


And shall we just focus on the question:
[q1] whether a properly working mechanical boost gauge using a bourdon tube mechanism would always read zero, regardless of the current atmospheric pressure surrounding it.

The following paragraph is taken from the same site (http://www.princeton.edu/~humcomp/sophlab/ther_13.htm):
Quote:
The gauge measures the pressure difference between the inside and the outside of the Bourdon tube....
The rest of the sentence (not quoted) discusses how to get absolute pressure from such a device, and is irrelevant to the question at hand imho.

Given that quote, pressure outside of the bourdon tube depends on where the car is (including altitude), pressure inside the bourdon tube is connected to the boost/vacuum reading. Hence, if assumptions A1-A4 are correct, no matter what altitude the car (and the gauge) is at, the gauge will read zero.

Which part above is incorrect?

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Old 07-29-2003, 03:38 AM   #21
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I apologize for being wrong.
I confused guage types.
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Old 08-11-2003, 10:17 PM   #22
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Well sense this is a plethora of knowledge, would you see a difference between the HKS, Blitz gauges vs. Autometer gauges? Besides the extra function of the gauges, is there a difference in how they read, one better than the other in accuracy?

oh ya, what does EDT stand for?
I am just learning about turbos and function with gauges, trying to understand what each gauge is so important, when day to day, or on the track.

Thanks!
Britten
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Old 08-12-2003, 12:54 AM   #23
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Quote:
... would you see a difference between the HKS, Blitz gauges vs. Autometer gauges? Besides the extra function of the gauges, is there a difference in how they read, one better than the other in accuracy?
The functionality possible with electrical gauges makes their price much higher than those (especially the mechanical counterparts) that do not. Aside from that, imho, the more expensive ones like the Blitz & Defi seem to have a better looking finish. That doesn't necessarily mean that these more expensive ones are of higher quality, rather, it seems that they spend more effort in making the overall look and finish more refined than the less expensive ones. Since afaik automotive gauge manufacturers don't publish real technical specs like industrial sensors (that I'm familiar with), it's hard to say if the more expensive ones use sensors with better precision, accuracy, linearity, or just use the same type as the less expensive ones. Given that most gauges are used solely for human feedback, I'd be surprised if extreme precision & accuracy is required, nor if it would be noticeable (say, a boost gauge with a range of 0 to 25 psi doesn't have to be more accurate than 0.1psi) to the human observer.

Bottom line, pick one that you like best and agrees with how much you want to spend. For example, the Lamco mechanical boost gauge offered as a subaru option seem rather pricey compared to Autometer, with a comparable apparent quality in finish. On the other hand, the Defi gauge offered as the Genome STi part is probably really worth the price, given the much nicer fit & finish of the gauges, imho.
Quote:
oh ya, what does EDT stand for?
Not sure there's an EDT mentioned in this thread.
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Old 08-12-2003, 12:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solomon
Well sense this is a plethora of knowledge, would you see a difference between the HKS, Blitz gauges vs. Autometer gauges? Besides the extra function of the gauges, is there a difference in how they read, one better than the other in accuracy?
It probably more an issue of the probe vs the gauge. Autometer sells different EGT probes for longer life with slower response as well as short life with fast response. Besides the EGT probe, haven't read any good comparisons with other gauges.
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