Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday July 29, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-25-2003, 03:33 PM   #1
Jademonkey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9213
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My grandma was 6' 6"
Vehicle:
2000 RS
Red

Angry My engine blew up (sort of)

So I was driving, cruizing down the highway with a little bit of traffic, so I was going maybe 60 mph. My CEL starts flashing, and my car feels like it's only running on 3 cyl's. Hmm... maybe a plug wire got loose. That happened with my magnecor's quite a bit. So I pull over, check the wires. They look fine. I try starting the engine, and I get this very loud slapping noise on the driver side of the engine. The engine dies as soon as you let off the gas, but willl start as long as you give it a little throttle. Damn! I call AAA, and get towed to the nearest Subaru service center. They pull the plugs, and one of them is in very bad shape.

Dealer then tells me that since I'm a hair under powertrain warranty, SOA will replace my engine. Cool. Still pissed about being without a car for a week.... but it now gets interesting. Hey...look at that ganzflo. Ahh, borla header and catback. Aaah, MSD wires. You must race your car.

So they change their story. My mod's caused the engine to go bad. Now I have to pay $2,000 to have them inspect the engine, and then they'll determine if it's under warranty. So now I'm without my car for 2 more weeks. And will potentially be out $2,000 with a car that still doesn't run.

Anybody have any idea what could have caused this? I would like to think my mods didn't cause my engine to blow up...but I'm nervous about the dealership doing this inspection. I don't really trust them. I don't race my car. I religiously change the oil.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Jademonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2003, 03:48 PM   #2
DDMan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11221
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rocklin, California
Vehicle:
2002 2.5 RS
Black as Midnight!!!

Default

When you say the plug was in "bad shape" what do you mean?

Also...it does sound like the engine was only running on 3 cylinders....but why would require more diagnostics.

Have you had any other service done lately? One thing I have learned and that I will always do in the future is to have the car towed to your house or somewhere you can get the car at least partly back to stock, expecially on major engine/trans problems.
DDMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2003, 04:00 PM   #3
Jademonkey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9213
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My grandma was 6' 6"
Vehicle:
2000 RS
Red

Default

I didn't get to see the plug myself. They just said it was "fowled up." My guess is it was coated with oil, or coolant....or a mixture of both, maybe signs of getting smashed by a piston?

I haven't had any service done lately. I changed my oil a month ago(mobil 1 syn 5-30), and filter. The only thing I did, was a year ago, I did the 30,000 maint myself. (fuel filter, tranny fluid, diff fluid, coolant, plugs, etc). I took it in for the 02 sensor recall when I first bought it...then got the ECU reflashed under that recall...

In the future, I'll do the same. I had no idea that the engine was in such bad shape. I figured the coil pack was misfiring, or a plug wire was bad, maybe one point wasn't firing at all.

This sucks.
Quote:
Originally posted by DDMan
When you say the plug was in "bad shape" what do you mean?

Also...it does sound like the engine was only running on 3 cylinders....but why would require more diagnostics.

Have you had any other service done lately? One thing I have learned and that I will always do in the future is to have the car towed to your house or somewhere you can get the car at least partly back to stock, expecially on major engine/trans problems.
Jademonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2003, 01:21 AM   #4
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: haha XD
Vehicle:
2013 Subaru 599 :P
Galaxy Blue Sexy

Default

For $2000 you can get another engine and then some.

Dont pay them.
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2003, 01:54 AM   #5
ciper
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 15543
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: san francisco, ca
Vehicle:
90BJ Legacy LS ABS
AWD 946 Rio Red Jpn built

Default

Someone was selling a 2.5 engine with basically everything attached for 800, and he had no offers so he got desperate. I was this close to buying it. Shipping would have only been 200 from michigan.

He did a WRX swap and also had the transmission.


I think you should call Santa Cruz and tell them the story. Be totally honest and see what they can do, it could be your dealer is just a punk.
ciper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2003, 08:18 AM   #6
bvondran
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 15634
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5 RS
White

Default

Don't let them f*ck with you. To deny your warrany, they have to prove that the parts you installed caused you parts fail. Also, last time I checked (haven't been though business law since I passed CPA exam), "guessing" you did something (like racing) was not a valid defense to an enforceable contract. Put it to em, don't let 'em screw you.

**Unless you have had the car on the race track (not autox, but actual racetrack), cause then you might need to own up to it and admit the failure might not be Subaru's fault (street cars aren't necessarily built for the track).

Brian
bvondran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2003, 01:48 PM   #7
Jademonkey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9213
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My grandma was 6' 6"
Vehicle:
2000 RS
Red

Default

My car is a commuter... I definately don't race it. I have 58,000 miles on it. Trips to Reno, Arizona, and a 64 hour drive fest from Berkeley to Minneapolis and back, plus a regular commute from Benicia to Berkeley. There's something about racing a car that I'm making payments on, and depend so much on, that doesn't make much sense.

They already took pictures of the engine and sent it off to SOA. SOA has assigned me a case number, so I guess at this point, all I can do is wait for the verdict.

worst case scenario, I'm out $2,000 with no running car. What are my options from there? Any suggetsions at that point?

Best case scenario, they replace my engine, and I trade my car in for something that doesn't break down after 58,000 miles.
Jademonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2003, 07:38 PM   #8
DoorKnob
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 395
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Daly City, CA USA
Vehicle:
2000 Impreza 2.5RS
Blue Ridge Pearl

Default

Well, I don't know if this is helpful to you or not, but have you considered buying a good used motor? I mean, for less than $2k, you might just be able to go to the junkyard and pick up a low mileage 2.5 engine. Not to mention that so many people now are doing EJ20 swaps, I don't think that it would cost so much.

Well, just thought I'd throw that out for you to consider.

Which dealership did you take it to?
DoorKnob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2003, 09:37 AM   #9
Murray
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 11312
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: ghettoville, PA
Vehicle:
2009 Gray
Legacy 2.5i

Default

at 58K miles..almost sounds as if your timing belt jumped a tooth or 2. causeing it to run incorrectly on 1 or 2cyls, if not all 4.

EJ20 swaps can be done for about 2K in parts..but then there the whole labor thing too, unless you can do it.

that really sucks tho.

Murray
Murray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2003, 10:10 AM   #10
Jademonkey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9213
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My grandma was 6' 6"
Vehicle:
2000 RS
Red

Default

I hope it's the timing belt... they can't blame that on my exhaust.

I'm pretty sure I could do the swap myself....accept the wiring...but I doubt I could take the time off work to do it.
Jademonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2003, 10:43 AM   #11
MY99 2.5GT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5030
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Martinsburg, WV, USA
Vehicle:
1999 Legacy 2.5GT
05 Legacy GT 06 Armada

Default

$2000 to inspect a car that is under factory warranty doesn't make any sense. You really should have towed the car to your house then removed the performance parts you had on there.

I can't stress this enough: Don't take your car to the dealer with performance parts installed that you could easily remove. Exhaust mods normally aren't that big a deal so you aren't taking a chance if you leave them installed. However when you get into ignition systems and fuel computers thats when a dealer or even a technician's eyebrows go up. If there is no beyond a doubt evidence like a broken timing belt or leaky head gaskets, better yet even if there is beyond a doubt evidence they may still deny you on grounds of your mods.

USDM EJ20 swaps seem to be around the neighborhood of $4000 in parts.

If your talking about a JDM Non OBD-II EJ20 and ECU I have seen them as cheap as $850. Good luck passing emmisions in most states though. You shouldn't have any problem passing a tail pipe test but most states are now plugging a scanner into the OBD-II port and are looking for check engine codes. This isn't a problem if you have a 95 or older but since yours is a 2001...

I'm not sure if there are piggy back or even full replacement ecus that retain OBD-II compliance and don't throw CELs when you swap a turbo motor in. Actually you may want to talk with Cobb about their Accel reflash or Vishnu about there EcuTeck reflash system.

Good luck with all of this and let us know how it turns out.

Brad
MY99 2.5GT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2003, 11:21 AM   #12
Jademonkey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9213
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My grandma was 6' 6"
Vehicle:
2000 RS
Red

Default

At least I know I have some options at this point. I had no idea the damage was as bad as it was. I pulled 3 of the 4 plugs, and when the tow truck got there, I said to just tow it to nearest service center. I figured it was a bad coil pack or a wire...had no idea the engine was in such bad shape. I'm going to call the dealership in about an hour, and get an update.

edit: just called dealership, and they haven't done anything to it yet...

Last edited by Jademonkey; 07-28-2003 at 11:46 AM.
Jademonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2003, 03:00 PM   #13
Jademonkey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9213
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My grandma was 6' 6"
Vehicle:
2000 RS
Red

Default

Damn, I knew I should have taken it to the dealer I bought it from. I just spoke with the warranty advisor. When I explained to her what happened, she said "that's odd... i don't think your after market parts would have caused that to happen."
Jademonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2003, 04:09 PM   #14
nunyo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 35575
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Tampa
Vehicle:
'07 Subaru OBS
Silver/Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Jademonkey
Damn, I knew I should have taken it to the dealer I bought it from. I just spoke with the warranty advisor. When I explained to her what happened, she said "that's odd... i don't think your after market parts would have caused that to happen."
If I were in this situation I'd call the dealer that has not touched it and tell them not to, then have the car picked up and taken to the dealer you trust. It sounds like they are already playing games with you and you'll likely save more money by dealing with other people than your going to pay to have it towed again.
nunyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2003, 11:22 AM   #15
Jademonkey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9213
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My grandma was 6' 6"
Vehicle:
2000 RS
Red

Default Update

I just spoke with the Service Manager, since nobody else at the dealership is returning my calls. The engine is apart, and they found the problem. One of the pistons hit a valve. They say that i was revving my engine at high RPM's causing a valve to float, then a piston slammed into it. They're going to take pictures and send it to the local SOA rep. Basically they're accusing me of racing it. The manager said "This only happens when you're revving it at high RPM's."

Could somebody give me some help here?
Jademonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2003, 11:48 AM   #16
MY99 2.5GT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5030
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Martinsburg, WV, USA
Vehicle:
1999 Legacy 2.5GT
05 Legacy GT 06 Armada

Default

Do any of the aftermarket ignition bits you installed give you the ability to raise the rev limiter?
MY99 2.5GT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2003, 12:52 PM   #17
Jademonkey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9213
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My grandma was 6' 6"
Vehicle:
2000 RS
Red

Default

The only thing on my ignition are MSD wires I made (scoobymods.com) .
Jademonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2003, 01:35 PM   #18
MY99 2.5GT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5030
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Martinsburg, WV, USA
Vehicle:
1999 Legacy 2.5GT
05 Legacy GT 06 Armada

Default

Your argument to SOA needs to be that you did nothing to alter the revving boundaries set by the factory engine control unit.

Sorry for some reason I only read MSD and thought full ignition control system.

The dealer really has no excuse for not warrantying your car. I have a feeling SOA will tell them to warranty repair your car. If they give you trouble find a lawyer that will read the fine print of your warranty contract and right a letter to SOA when he has found that SOA has not proven that you did anything to cause the engine failure. The lawyer would cost you less then $2000 trust me.

If all else fails JDM EJ20 turbo motors are going for $850 on ebay.

brad
MY99 2.5GT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2003, 01:58 PM   #19
Jademonkey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9213
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My grandma was 6' 6"
Vehicle:
2000 RS
Red

Default

Thanks Brad, I appreciate your input. I just spoke with my dad who is a fleet formean for PG&E (california electrical utility company) and he said the same.

I also want them to get a freeze frame data log of the engine conditions at time of CEL. They'll see that the engine was driving at 70 mph, @ 3000 rpm's.
Jademonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2003, 03:27 PM   #20
ChrisW
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4181
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: keeping santa cruz weird
Vehicle:
2003 Lancer Evo 8
It's Blue, ok?

Default

When was the last time you changed your timing belt? If you have never done it, then 58,000 miles is well beyond it's normal service life.
ChrisW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2003, 04:10 PM   #21
Jademonkey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9213
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My grandma was 6' 6"
Vehicle:
2000 RS
Red

Default

Timing Belt? You sure it's well over? According to the maintanence schedule, it should get changed out until slightly over 100,000 miles....
Jademonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2003, 04:51 PM   #22
foolio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9351
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Last Minute Motorsports
Vehicle:
2006 trailblazer SS
black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
When was the last time you changed your timing belt? If you have never done it, then 58,000 miles is well beyond it's normal service life.
Timing belt services are not needed until over 100k.

I would call the dealer and ask which rep from SOA they are dealing with. Tell them the situation and maybe you will get someone who cares on the other side of the phone. Dealers really dont care.(some do) I would talk to the person who is handling your case at SOA.
foolio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2003, 05:27 PM   #23
Jademonkey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9213
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My grandma was 6' 6"
Vehicle:
2000 RS
Red

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by foolio


Timing belt services are not needed until over 100k.

I would call the dealer and ask which rep from SOA they are dealing with. Tell them the situation and maybe you will get someone who cares on the other side of the phone. Dealers really dont care.(some do) I would talk to the person who is handling your case at SOA.
I asked if I could contact the rep handling the case. The Service Dept Manager told me No, and that they would contact me after SOA rep reviewed the case.
Jademonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2003, 09:46 PM   #24
ldivinag
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13533
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: N37 39* W122 3*
Vehicle:
04 sti
black???

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Jademonkey


I asked if I could contact the rep handling the case. The Service Dept Manager told me No, and that they would contact me after SOA rep reviewed the case.
this sounds a little "fishy"...

i'd called SOA directly if this is standard practice.

btw, which dealer is this?
ldivinag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2003, 10:50 PM   #25
Jademonkey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9213
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: My grandma was 6' 6"
Vehicle:
2000 RS
Red

Default

Dealer is Green Valley Ford.
Jademonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My engine blew what would you do? Initialdaddict General Community 41 08-19-2009 11:54 PM
Engine blew up in my 2003 Subaru Baja NA, please advise bajaSeven Normally Aspirated Powertrain 14 10-06-2008 03:24 PM
BMW 335 engine blew up twlai Non-Subaru News & Rumors 39 09-11-2006 11:53 PM
friend bought an audi, engine blew up, she got screwed, need new engine.. (help) Keith Off-Topic 75 02-02-2005 07:43 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.