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Old 07-26-2003, 02:15 AM   #1
GoodFinder
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Default HIDs Soon to be Banned

I've ordered HID light kits from www.liteswap.com and my experience is they've been straight up with good pricing and prompt customer service. Check the two discussion threads below if you've been contemplating doing an HID upgrade:

http://hidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=596

http://hidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=613

I realize this is coming from a vendor, but they aren't the only ones saying HIDs will be banned. They say it will be on August 15th or at least (soon) when a law will be passed. Supposedly vendors can be fined up to $5,000 per day for selling HID kits. Is this true or just another urban legend? If it's true, you'll want to get yours before they become illegal.

There's also an online petition being circulated to try and get some "voice" raised by responsible automotive enthusiasts who want to be able to drive with aftermarket HID lights:

www.petitiononline.com/hidforum/petition.html

You may be for this or against this. The point of this thread is to bring this to your attention, since that's what we're all about here, sharing information and helping each other out.

Regards,

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Old 07-26-2003, 12:27 PM   #2
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I've just spent awhile searching the Federal Register and the NHTSA website for any information on this topic. Thus far, I have been unable to find any credible, official document specifying the supposed August 15 deadline or the purported fine amount. That information may well exist, but I haven't found it yet.

There are a few pertinent materials you may wish to review on the DOT's Docket Management System. Search for the following dockets:

NHTSA-2001-8885
NHTSA-2002-13957

What's interesting to me is that Docket 13957 is requesting comments on adaptive frontal lighting systems, or what I am understanding to be something akin to auto-leveling and/or auto-directional capability. Nothing in the initial docket specifically refers to HIDs, but in the comments that follow, the docket seems to be "hijacked" by HID opponents and supporters.

So I take it the rumor is that aftermarket HIDs will be "banned"? What are we supposed to make of the increasing number of vehicles sold in this country with HIDs as OEM equipment, now even including Subaru?

I'll be keeping an eye out for more news about this. One thing I will say is that the implication (by some posters on the hidforum.com site) that the government will suddenly unveil a new law or regulation overnight without prior notice is ridiculous. That's not how laws get made in this country. If NHTSA wants to implement new regulations, you'll see info on the proposed rule(s) popping up in the Federal Register well ahead of time.

Last edited by Zola; 07-26-2003 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 07-26-2003, 04:02 PM   #3
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remember the beautifull words, "for off-road use only" :-)
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Old 07-27-2003, 12:14 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zola Rex
So I take it the rumor is that aftermarket HIDs will be "banned"? What are we supposed to make of the increasing number of vehicles sold in this country with HIDs as OEM equipment, now even including Subaru?
There's a big difference between aftermarket HID kits and OEM ones. Most aftermarket HID setups are basically lamps designed for a halogen bulb modified so that an HID capsule fits in it. Simply sticking an HID capsule in there without having the proper supporting optics results in a bad beam pattern. Sure, there's more light, but it's going the wrong places. Not only can that mean more glare and blinding other drivers, but it also can mean dim spots even in the middle of the driver's field of view.

Most aftermarket HID kits are sold through hype and misleading or simply wrong advertising. They are nothing like proper OEM HIDs, and simply cannot be unless the optics of the lamps are changed.

The exception to this are kits based on actual HID lamps, like the Hella 90mm HID units or OEM takeoffs.
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Old 07-28-2003, 11:59 AM   #5
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Any vendors want to sell me a 9007 kit REALLY cheap?
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Old 07-28-2003, 06:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by liigod
remember the beautifull words, "for off-road use only" :-)

uhh yea. aren't aftermarket HID kits illegal already?
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Old 07-28-2003, 06:13 PM   #7
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Probably. None of the replacement headlights are US legal either.
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Old 07-28-2003, 06:59 PM   #8
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from what i've read on various sites. it looks like the gov is trying to make a law banning the sale of HID and HID knock-offs b/c of complaints.

But what it really seems like is they are shifting the enforcement up a level. instead of having the freedom to buy parts for your car that you can't use on the street but you CAN use at shows/off road, and having policy write up tickets and enforce the law. they are taking away the product so the cops don't have anything to do with it.
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Old 07-28-2003, 07:08 PM   #9
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Yeah, it sounds kind of screwed up.

But wait -- since when does the DOT or the NHTSA have the right to regulate the sale of products? All they should be able to do is deny a manufacturer the privilege of stamping "DOT approved" or "street legal" on the equipment, right?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding it or just being too naive...

I haven't been able to find any statements from DOT or NHTSA. Can anyone clear this up?
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Old 07-28-2003, 07:54 PM   #10
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I find it amusing their banning all of thease automotive products to the very extents of the law, it seems like you get off easier if your dealing drugs or selling prostitutes.

For instance, not too long ago, 2 men who worked for AutoDelta USA which are an importer/legaliser of Alfa Romeo's for the US streets got arrested because they didnt file the paperwork correctly when they imported a couple 156 sedan. They got the book thrown at them in court. Give me a break, its just a damn car, knowing how logical the US customs service is they would probably OK a transport crate with a Al-Queda made nuclear bomb, but arrest your ass for importing HID kit for automobiles.

Ah yes, typical US government.
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Old 07-28-2003, 09:03 PM   #11
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By the looks of things over at hidforums.com the regulations they need are already there. They seem to have chosen to enforce them via the heavy fine for sales of "Kits". This probably do to pressure from the Anti-HID freaks.

If you aren't a corporation with a pack of lawyers these days, you're just along for the ride.

Be careful where you shine those HID lights folks, because it's probably going to get ugly soon. Aim them carefully, and keep them pointed a little low if you've got aimers and you don't need them higher to see.

If you don't know what you are doing with lights and aiming, get some help before you go out and blind someone with new HIDs.
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Old 07-28-2003, 09:09 PM   #12
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Agreed. I've always had my Morettes aimed lower with the HIDs than with halogens and no problems. Nobody has ever flashed me and I can drive right behind cops and they don't care.
The problem comes partly from HIDs installed in reflectors and sending light everywhere, and I also notice a lot of oncoming glare from cars with OEM HIDs (BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc). Some of these have reflector HIDs from the factory which is itself a bad idea, even the ones with projectors glare pretty badly. I don't think they have the same sharp cutoff pattern as our aftermarket E-code lights.
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Old 07-28-2003, 10:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by vrg3
I haven't been able to find any statements from DOT or NHTSA. Can anyone clear this up?
That's because there hasn't been anything. There's another thread about this in the General Community forum. I searched NHTSA and the Federal Register without success, and then enlisted research guru Jon [in CT] who also found nothing....and if he didn't find it, it ain't there.

I agree that what they appear to be doing is enforcing current regulations, specifically FMVSS 108.

mulder, I also find many of the OEM HID systems from Audi et al. to be annoying. Perhaps many of these cars aren't getting their headlights properly aimed when delivered to a buyer, which just magnifies the problems inherent in the reflector setup. Another issue is all the HID look-alike bulbs out there...they certainly aren't helping the cause of HID supporters.
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Old 07-29-2003, 01:06 AM   #14
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ok, if they can't keep people from selling/buying/installing those retarted LED washer squiters, how are they gonna regulate HID's?!

scott
my $.02
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Old 07-29-2003, 10:36 AM   #15
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How about banning fast and furious altezza-look tails? I know APC got fined for it already but they didn't improve things much.
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Old 07-30-2003, 02:29 PM   #16
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I have read several articles on this topic in the last couple of years. I do not have links but can sum them up briefly. The main complaint and proposed restrictions, at least from what I read , concerned the usage of HID's in trucks. Not autos. The height difference makes HID's in trucks (as in pickup trucks) blinding to others. Also , these were all proposals and have been around for several years without any action. Another issue is these proposed laws are redundant. In fact that in most states it is already illegal to remove headlights from a car and replace them with another type. HID or not.
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Old 07-31-2003, 11:05 AM   #17
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It seems to me that there are more people who like the HID's than those who dislike them. No offence but most of the people who flash me because of my HID's, are the elderly. I dunno, maybe cuz they're not so knowledgeable w/ them. Or maybe they're like deer and have no choice but to stare at the brightest light on a dark street.

I don't give a rats a$$ if they end up making a frickin' law banning HID's, I'm not getting rid of mine. Unless ofcourse they give me a complete refund...then maybe.

What upsets me the most is with all the $hit going on in the world, why can't these lawmakers use their energy in a more productive way? I'd like to know how many people have either lost their sight, or their lives to people driving w/ HID's? I don't know of any.

What I think should be done, is to have in manditory that if you do have an after market HID kit installed, that it be a respected brand/manufacturer, and that they must be professionally leveled for a small fee. It's that simple.

- Logan

ps - Zola Rex, thanks for the leveling tip & link!
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Old 07-31-2003, 12:23 PM   #18
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This could be a problem if we need to buy new bulbs down the road, right?
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Old 07-31-2003, 02:33 PM   #19
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So is there going to be a black market for HIDs?
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Old 07-31-2003, 09:53 PM   #20
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Well here is an intelligent idea. If the government believes they have to ban HID's for safety how about higher standards for halogen reflector lights in the same law. I know it can be done because I have seen them. Unfortunately government is only good for negative responses.
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Old 08-01-2003, 02:37 AM   #21
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So are they going to come take away my STi lights?
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Old 08-01-2003, 02:12 PM   #22
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I think the HID are obnoxious when not aimed well. I have a problem with you shining a bright light directly into my eyes when I'm driving. I'm all for banning or regulating them for street use.

I ran lights on my off road VW Baja that would light up the world but I never ran them on the street.

Remember your freedom ends where mine begins.

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Old 08-01-2003, 04:06 PM   #23
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Theo I agree with you, however I've never been flashed with my morettes and HID setup. I've also done tests with my friends /family to make sure that whenever I re-aim them, I'm not blinding anyone.

I guess it just takes a few morons to ruin it for the rest of us.
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Old 08-01-2003, 04:28 PM   #24
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Instead of banning, wouldn't it be better to have law enforecement agencies actually enforce the law? I'm pretty sure every state has a law covering headlights. Simply enfore the height and aiming properly. Any light, whether HID or halogen is a problem if not aimed properly. Just my $.02.

Scott

Last edited by aview2nv; 08-01-2003 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 08-01-2003, 06:20 PM   #25
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Good point. There is a law currently that would fix the problem if enforced. Another law will not help as it too will likely not be enforced.

In my area a lot of cars have poorly aimed lights. I've never heard of anyone getting a fix it ticket or anything.

Has anyone ever heard of a ticket being issued for overlly bright or poorly directed headlights?

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