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Old 09-22-2003, 12:01 AM   #1
Cthulhu
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Blue Ridge Pearl

Default My Car is Throwing the Following Codes...

P0170 - Fuel Trim, Bank1 Malfunction
P0420 - Catalyst System, Bank1 Efficiency Below Threshold
P0130 - O2 Sensor Circuit, Bank1-Sensor1 Malfunction
P1133 - Oxygen Sensor Heater Insufficient Bank 2, Pre-Cat

I have a completely stock MY2000 2.5RS with 60,000 miles. Symptoms are very rough idle, sputtering under 3700 RPMs, stalling at lights... Now, I can see from the codes that the problem is more than likely related to the O2 sensor, but what else would you all look at/for? I've had the O2 sensor replaced 2 times now by the dealer under recall. Could they possibly be putting bad ones on again? Also the car is very loud and almost sounds like an exahust leak or something. Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 09-22-2003, 01:23 AM   #2
Cujo31
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Default

I had the exact same problem on my 2000RS. I am now on the car's 3'rd front O2 sensor (replaced once since I have been owner) and second Catalytic Converter/rear sensor.

All replaced free by Subaru under the exhaust system mandatory 8 year / 80,000 miles warranty... (even with my catback on there! )

I'm basically just going on hope now that this doesn't happen again. I was told by my dealer (that I trust pretty well), that the sensors they are now putting in should last without failure again... but we'll see, right?

once the front sensor goes bad, and you happen to drive with it going out, It's going to fry all the catalyst in the converter, hence the P0420 code.
I had to drive on the bad sensor for about 4 days or so, and it almost got to where the car was un-drivable; with the sputtering and dying under 3000 rpm.


Bottom line- get her to the dealer, and tell them the codes you've got. Don't come back home without a whole new exhaust emissions system (cat, front sensor, rear sensor) Again this will all be free.

Last edited by Cujo31; 09-22-2003 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 09-22-2003, 01:31 AM   #3
Cthulhu
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Default

interesting... thanks for the info. guess i'll be taking a trip to the dealership on my next day off.

so when you were having the problem, was your car very noticably louder at low RPMs?
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Old 09-22-2003, 01:34 AM   #4
Cujo31
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Default

yes, during the time w/ the bad sensor, the car was louder, and so roughly idling that the whole car shook back and forth. It was horrible.

I also had a handful of backfires that I believe helped crack a hole in my already rusty midpipe (the weld around the resonator)- Hence the new catback... (custom 2.5" w/ a magnaflow 1in/2out)

this was all about 5 months ago.
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Old 09-22-2003, 01:37 AM   #5
Cthulhu
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Default

Cool... thanks for the reply. Sounds like that is the problem.

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Old 09-22-2003, 01:38 AM   #6
Cthulhu
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Default

just curious, how many miles do you have on your car?
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Old 09-22-2003, 01:40 AM   #7
Cujo31
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Default

50,xxx
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Old 09-22-2003, 12:24 PM   #8
balajc
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Default

I have a 2000 RS coupe also...completely stock with 21,000 miles on her

I bought the car 6 months ago with 9000 miles on it. I have not had a CEL so far...

should I be alarmed?
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Old 09-22-2003, 01:23 PM   #9
BOY
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Default

Another piece of advice, you very well need new plugs... in fact, I'd recomend them. Reason being is the ECU defaults to ridiculously rich when the O2 sensors fail... as in plug fouling rich, which can cause you to misfire, stumble, etc causing more damage to the O2 sensor(s) and catalysts. Short story long, check and plan to replace your plugs.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cujo31
I had the exact same problem on my 2000RS. I am now on the car's 3'rd front O2 sensor (replaced once since I have been owner) and second Catalytic Converter/rear sensor.

All replaced free by Subaru under the exhaust system mandatory 8 year / 80,000 miles warranty... (even with my catback on there! )

I'm basically just going on hope now that this doesn't happen again. I was told by my dealer (that I trust pretty well), that the sensors they are now putting in should last without failure again... but we'll see, right?

once the front sensor goes bad, and you happen to drive with it going out, It's going to fry all the catalyst in the converter, hence the P0420 code.
I had to drive on the bad sensor for about 4 days or so, and it almost got to where the car was un-drivable; with the sputtering and dying under 3000 rpm.


Bottom line- get her to the dealer, and tell them the codes you've got. Don't come back home without a whole new exhaust emissions system (cat, front sensor, rear sensor) Again this will all be free.
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Old 09-22-2003, 01:56 PM   #10
subarucyclist
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Silverthorn

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Now that my 60k warranty is up, how could I still be covered by this "mandatory 80,000 mile subaru exhaust" deal? It sounds great, I'd love to have the documentation or source of this, just in case I end up needing it. Might be cool to post it here for everyone, too.

S
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Old 09-22-2003, 06:41 PM   #11
munkis
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the only parts covered under the federal 8/80 warranty are the Cats, and the ECU.

each one of those new 02 sesnors would carry a 1 year 12,000 mile parts warranty.

If you car has an exhaust leak before the 02 sensor it will screw everything up.

2. Clean Air Act Warranty Provisions (42 U.S.C. S 7541 (C) (3) (B))

The federal Clean Air Act requires vehicle makers to provide two emissions-related warranties -- a production warranty and a performance warranty. The production warranty requires the vehicle maker to warrant that the vehicle is designed, built and equipped so that it conforms with emissions requirements at the time of sale. The performance warranty requires the vehicle maker to warrant that the vehicle will comply with applicable emissions requirements as tested under state vehicle emissions inspection programs for the warranty periods specified in the law (for model year 1995 and later vehicles, the warranty is 2 years/24,000 miles for all emissions-related parts and 8 years/80,000 miles for the catalytic converter, electronic emissions control unit and on-board diagnostic device). The performance warranty is conditioned on the vehicle being properly maintained and operated.


Jay
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Old 09-22-2003, 11:13 PM   #12
Cthulhu
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by BOY
Another piece of advice, you very well need new plugs... in fact, I'd recomend them. Reason being is the ECU defaults to ridiculously rich when the O2 sensors fail... as in plug fouling rich, which can cause you to misfire, stumble, etc causing more damage to the O2 sensor(s) and catalysts. Short story long, check and plan to replace your plugs.

yeah, i was going to check the plugs after my trip to the dealer. thanks for the reminder. sucks cause i just replaced 'em not 3-4 months ago.

i spoke with the dealer and he seems to think it's the O2 sensor that has gone bad as well... i'm going up there on my next day off...wednesday. thanks again for all the replies.

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Old 09-23-2003, 08:04 PM   #13
rob
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Default

Funny, I just got the p0420 code yesterday in my stock 2000RS w/62,000 miles. Tech said new cats clear up the problem, so I'm getting new ones under the 80,000 mile emmissions warranty. I guess if it's an O2 sensor thing, it's out of my pocket? Darn.

Last edited by rob; 09-23-2003 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 09-23-2003, 09:32 PM   #14
Cthulhu
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by rob
Funny, I just got the p0420 code yesterday in my stock 2000RS w/62,000 miles. Tech said new cats clear up the problem, so I'm getting new ones under the 80,000 mile emmissions warranty. I guess if it's an O2 sensor thing, it's out of my pocket? Darn.
there is/was a recall on the O2 sensor for your car. if you haven't already been in for it, you should be good to go. i've been in twice already for the O2 sensor and both times it was no charge. going tomorrow to see what's up this time.
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Old 09-24-2003, 01:56 AM   #15
tbert
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Default

The problem you are talking about, does it also apply to the MY2000 2.2L Outback Sport Wagon, or is it just for the 2.5?

My OBS has been at the dealer for three days (two consecutive) now for my complaint of cold start studder problems along with the "check engine" light on. It seems quite a few OBS's had this problem, but no one knows what causes it or how to fix it.

Any experience with this, any comments??

Thanks.
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Old 09-24-2003, 02:00 AM   #16
Cthulhu
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do you know what codes the CE light are for? that would help ya. could be the same thing...
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Old 09-24-2003, 02:14 AM   #17
tbert
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Default "CE Code"

No, haven't seen the codes. Dealer says no abnormal codes. Said they were in touch with Subaru Tech Line. "There is something goofy" were exact words.

I think it's the ECU.

Whaddaya think?
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Old 09-24-2003, 02:19 AM   #18
Cthulhu
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hmmm... dunno man. good luck with it...hope they get it all worked out. i go for my adventure tomorrow.
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Old 09-24-2003, 12:16 PM   #19
mkgcars
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Red

Default

More on O2 sensor warranty:

SOA advised me the other day that because Massachusetts does emissions testing the 02 sensor would be covered under the 7/70 Calif warranty on emissions control equipment.

Of course because my nearest dealer indicated the sensor was a 3/36 warranty from new I just bought the part and put it in. Now comes the fun part to see if I can get back my $87+tax for the sensor.

matt

PS: In my case the original sensor in my 2000 RS was fine until I replaced it on the WXW80 recall at 36k. The replacement blew a P0130 after 5 months and 10k, and it's replacement lasted 10 months and 18k. Car has no mods so I have to think the sensors are lame (like the pressure plates).
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Old 09-24-2003, 12:31 PM   #20
tbert
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Default air flow meter

Talked to dealer this morning. Said they narrowed the problem down to the air flow meter. They have it on order and covered under warranty.

I'll believe it when I see it work.

Later.
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Old 09-24-2003, 12:57 PM   #21
BOY
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Default Re: air flow meter

Quote:
Originally posted by tbert
Talked to dealer this morning. Said they narrowed the problem down to the air flow meter. They have it on order and covered under warranty.

I'll believe it when I see it work.

Later.
You don't have an airflow meter, you have a manifold pressure sensor... either the person you spoke to is a tool, or they're trying to dummy down the diagnosis (i.e. taking you for an idiot).
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Old 09-24-2003, 03:41 PM   #22
rob
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cthulhu


there is/was a recall on the O2 sensor for your car. if you haven't already been in for it, you should be good to go. i've been in twice already for the O2 sensor and both times it was no charge. going tomorrow to see what's up this time.
I have already taken care of the O2 recall a while ago.
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Old 09-24-2003, 10:58 PM   #23
tbert
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Angry re: air-flow meter

At the end of the day the dealer called back and said that now they think that the idle control valve is bad and will replace that for a measley $254. Apparently it is not covered under powertrain warranty. Do you think it could be covered under the emissions warranty.furious:

BTW thanks for the heads up on the said meter. I thought it would be too good to be true to be covered under warranty.
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Old 09-24-2003, 11:01 PM   #24
tbert
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Default Forum questions

I am new to NASIOC, and to these forums. I have a few questions at the risk of sounding dumb:

1. How do you add the smilies to your text. When I added a smiley at the above message, it just filled in the word "furious?"

2. What does "bump" mean?

Thanks
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Old 09-24-2003, 11:07 PM   #25
Cthulhu
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to add smilies, either just click on the one you want to the left of your reply when you're typing or for the furious one you have to put a : colon before and after.

bump means to bump the thread back up to the top of the forum.
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