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Old 07-27-2003, 11:26 PM   #1
TexRex2002
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Default Utec tuning for bottom end and low TPS?

Hello guys.

My car is a real dog down low. even more so that other (stock) WRX's I've driven around. Is there anything I can do to get more low end torque? I have a UTEC, up and downpipes, and a 3" high flow cat with the stock midpipe and muffler.

Is there any map tuning I can do? I know people with the cobb reflashes (access ECU, I believe?) have tons more low end than stock, enough even to chirp the tires on a regular start (1500 rpm) without boging. I was hoping there was something I could do to my car to get the same type of low end power, or at lest a little better what what I have...

Do I have to have my ecu reflashed? Do any of you guys have maps for the low end? the way my car is set up, the UTEC doesn't take over 'til 60% TPS. anyone have the UTEC drive from lower than that, that makes power down there?

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Old 07-28-2003, 12:18 AM   #2
V REX
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Sorry, can't help answer your ? but how do you feel about the tuning you had done? Now that it's been a little bit are your feelings still the same. Would you still recommend turbochargers.com because it seems like your not happy with the tune.
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Old 07-28-2003, 09:20 AM   #3
TexRex2002
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I am still happy with my tune. in the midrange und up high, I have noticably (butt dyno) more power than my similarly equiped peers.

I think that the problem may be in the stock ECU, or in the UTEC, depending on whether or not the ECU actually runs the engine at low TPS, or whether the UTEC emulates the stock ECU's parameters at low TPS.

I only dynotuned full throttle at 50% load and above.
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Old 07-28-2003, 11:36 AM   #4
digitaltekniq
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Well, one of the tactics you can use is by running slightly more advanced in the low load columns to improve spool - as heat from the exhaust imparts more energy.

I've mapped my timing down to the 10% load column and run around 2 degrees more advance than the 40% column - and my car pulls very nicely from down low.

You could also reduce the gain setting to try and pull boost up earlier. I've also mapped TPS crossover to 50% and control the boost from there.

Are you still running open loop boost control?

Cheers

Rich
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Old 07-28-2003, 12:26 PM   #5
PaulRex
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Default Example

Here is my ignition map, I mapped it down to the 20% column. I should probably advance things alittle more around 3-4k rpms in the 20-30% column sometime.

Code:
[-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]     [35]     [35]     [35]     [35]     [35]     [35]     [35]     [35]     [35]
   [-100]   [-100]     [35]     [35]     [35]     [35]     [35]     [35]     [35]     [35]     [35]
   [-100]   [-100]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]
   [-100]   [-100]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]
   [-100]   [-100]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]     [30]
   [-100]   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]
   [-100]   [-100]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]
   [-100]   [-100]     [20]     [20]     [20]     [20]     [20]     [20]     [20]     [20]     [20]
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   [-100]   [-100]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]
   [-100]   [-100]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]
   [-100]   [-100]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]
   [-100]   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]
   [-100]   [-100]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]     [27]
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   [-100]   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]   [-100]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]     [28]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
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Old 07-28-2003, 01:00 PM   #6
TexRex2002
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Paulrex: thank you very much. I will look at my map tonight and see if I can raise timing a little down low.

what are the columns in the ignition map? %load? TPS? I forget.


tekniq: I am in closed loop. So you take the 40% column values for timing, add 2 degrees and then copy those numbers into the 10, 20 and 30 columns? I run my ABC fairly open (4 turns), and so get a fair amount of boost at lower TPS readings. do I have to worry about getting too hot exhaust if I advance the timing down low? It there even a link between those things? Sorry, I am still learning (plus I see you're a "specialist" now, so I figure you'd probably know... )

Thank you!
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Old 07-28-2003, 01:23 PM   #7
QA Guy
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What does your boost map look like?

Are you running high numbers in the low rpm ranges to aid spool up? Without knowing, I would suggest that you might raise the numbers or if already at 500, copy those 500's into surrounding zones.

Others have already made good suggestions with regards to timing, but you also want to make sure you are not running too rich in the low rpm zones, as this may hurt spoolup.
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Old 07-28-2003, 01:39 PM   #8
TexRex2002
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My low rpm boost #'s are 500.

I am not running very rich in low rpm's. I have a plot somewhere of my A/F, and it is above stoic, and then drops down to about 11.3 - 11.5 or so at 3000 or so and stays that way throughout the rest of the rpm's.

I take it back. That may well be too rich, but its 14.7 or above, so I don't know...
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Old 07-28-2003, 01:49 PM   #9
digitaltekniq
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Tex

I would copy 40% column to 10-30% columns then add at least 2 degrees in the 10% column, 1 degree in the 20% column, basically giving a smooth timing transition - you will be AMAZED at the smoothness difference I experienced when following Clark (AZScoobie)'s advice. I left the 30% column pretty much where it was.

If you watch the timing that the ECU wants to run in the logger (forget which one) - you can see it runs anywhere between 36-40 degrees of advance in the low load columns - and where it swaps over to the UTEC's fixing timing you get 3 degrees of retard very abruptly - basically making it feel like it's bogging.

While not under much boost in the low load columns you can afford to not be so rich - obviously, if you can keep an eye on the EGTs, they shouldn't be ridiculous, but a .5 point here and there will give you a quicker spool.

You're very welcome to come to the ATX shop day on August the 9th, we're doing some uppipe/turboback installs, gauges and various other nonsense, we could do a little tuning if you like. I aint a tuning god or anything, but I might be able to help.

If you PM me your email address, I'll send you my closed loop map as it sounds like your car is very similar to mine with the ABC settings, you can run that and see if it helps your lower response.

Cheers!

Rich

Last edited by digitaltekniq; 07-28-2003 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 07-28-2003, 01:54 PM   #10
digitaltekniq
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Sorry - just noticed your other post - the only thing to worry about with the ABC wound out 4 turns is PTFB (part throttle full boost) and overboosting.

I found my car just needs 4 turns to develop the right boost level, guess it's just weird

I've tuned my boost map to be nice and progressive with MP5's help - with a little overboost protection built into the 100% TPS column, by the time I get to 100% it's time to change gears anyway

Like I said - PM me your email address and I'll email my map to you this evening when I get home.

Cheers

Rich

ps: 'Specialist' just means I'm a post whore (with hopefully some knowledge after the time I've been hanging out on NASIOC )
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Old 07-28-2003, 02:18 PM   #11
TexRex2002
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Teqnik: PM'ed you.

Not sure if I can make it to the ATX shop day. I have a very pregnant wife and a 2 year old, so I don't venture much more than an hour or so away form the house.

I will make the timing changes this evening. I will also re-read azscoobies post. I remember it was pretty interesting.

I don't have an egt guage, so I am a little nervous about pulling gas out...

My car seems to genuinely need 4 turns on the ABC as well. I get near 14 lbs sometimes at about 60 or 70 % tps (very briefly).

My boost gain parameter is down at 42, and I get no real boost spike up until 4th, where it spikes up to 17 lbs or so for a microsecond, and then settles at 16-16.5...
at full throttle.

I also notice that after periods of easygoing type driving, I get a knock count when I floor it in third, or when I pump the gas in 3rd or fourth. It'll only do it once. I imagine it is the stock ECU giving an extra degree and then pulling it again after the knock.

I definitely look forward to adding some timing and taking the low rpm's and load levels away from the factory ecu..

Sorry so long and rambling...
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