Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday July 8, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Service & Maintenance

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-29-2003, 01:09 PM   #1
SubieNoobie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 26322
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NJ
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Silver

Angry Who's right... dealer or SOA on oil changes?

Dealer's usually say a oil change every 3000 miles. But in the WRX manuals, it says to change oil every 7,500 miles. Who's right?? Or is the dealer's just tryin to rip us off? I've been going according to the manual. If the dealer's are right, how bad have I messed my car up? But then why would the Subaru manual say 7,500 miles? Arrgghhh I'm just very annoyed and angry right now. Anyone can help?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
SubieNoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 07-29-2003, 01:45 PM   #2
kenchan
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 15106
Join Date: Feb 2002
Default

just follow the manual. i only do oil changes in 7500 intervals. 7500miles or once every 6 months or so.

my local dealer was asking to do all sorts of small maintenace things to rig up hundreds of dollars. forget it.
kenchan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2003, 01:57 PM   #3
Keith99RS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9243
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Suffield, CT
Vehicle:
05 Nissan Titan
06 B9 (hers)

Default

Read further into the manual. At least in my RS's manual, they offer 2 different intervals for oil changes. City driving/hard driving and highway driving. 7500 seems ok for highway mileage, but stop and go and high revving subtract from oil life. Personally to be safe, I aim for 3-4K miles between changes. It isn't that expensive and there are only benefits to having clean oil in the long run.
Keith99RS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2003, 03:13 PM   #4
KanosWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17904
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA -> HI -> NOVA
Vehicle:
010 STI
Black

Default

As stated above it all depends on how you drive the car. Since you own a WRX I assume you push it hard, therefor I would change it every 3-4k miles. I have taken my car to the track and auto-x so I do it around 2.5-3k miles and thats with synthetic. The way I see it I don't mind spending 25 bucks and an hour out of my day to make my engine happy.
KanosWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2003, 06:04 PM   #5
DrD
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 22412
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2012 Legacy 2.5GT
Ice Silver Metallic

Default

If you do lots of short trips, drive in very cold weather, etc., SOA recommends 3750 miles between changes (or 3.75 months, whichever comes first) in their manual - many people (including myself) just go with every 3k miles - it's easier to keep track of.
DrD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2003, 04:02 PM   #6
Kean
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25187
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: So. CA
Vehicle:
'08 Foz Prem TGM
'10 Challenger R/T Blk

Default

I go with conservative recommendation of 3750 that's in the manual.
Kean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2003, 01:09 AM   #7
Tim Sanderson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6486
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: S.E. wisconsin
Vehicle:
00 Impreza 2.5 RS
Blue Ridge Pearl

Default

I does'nt matter what either says. What does matter is what kind of oil you use.

Here's a web site to read
www.advancedlube.com
Tim Sanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2003, 11:43 AM   #8
Kean
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25187
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: So. CA
Vehicle:
'08 Foz Prem TGM
'10 Challenger R/T Blk

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Sanderson
I does'nt matter what either says. What does matter is what kind of oil you use.

Here's a web site to read
www.advancedlube.com
....it's biased.
Kean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2003, 12:43 PM   #9
Keith99RS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9243
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Suffield, CT
Vehicle:
05 Nissan Titan
06 B9 (hers)

Default

If you need warranty work done with anything regarding the engine lubrication system, try telling the dealer you ignored the numbers in the owners manual and used the ones from advancedlube.com and see how far you get with your claim. The only oil I'd run very far past 3K miles would be synthetic. As it was said before what is 20-25 bucks every 3-5K miles to keep your engine happy and give it a long life.
Keith99RS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2003, 09:28 PM   #10
lstepnio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10972
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Tampabay, Florida
Vehicle:
2004 STi (fuxor3d!!)
2004 Forester X

Default

You can't go wrong following the suggestions in the owners manual.

If you're actually intrested in facts you should simply submit a sample of next oil change for oil analysis. Most places provide an addition service beyond the engine containments test to determine the break down properties of the oil. This is a very inexpensive service that will provide you with the facts you're looking for.

I've been really happy with the services this lab provides:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/auto.html
lstepnio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2003, 11:13 PM   #11
leecea
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 37359
Join Date: May 2003
Vehicle:
2003 WRX

Default

The dealers have been pushing the 3000 mile oil change for a few years now. Along with other pointless service items, it lets them make more money. Most cars now have long service intervals and don't need frequent tune-ups, so service depts and local oil change places need to find a way of keeping that revenue stream coming in!

The previous posters are correct that most manufacturers recommend shorter intervals for high-stress applications (like constant start/stop, long periods of idling, towing, etc), but the dealers are trying to make everyone fit that profile no matter the vehicle or driving habits.

Until now, I have always followed the service manual's longer oil change intervals because I have not used my vehicles in ways that the manual defines as severe use. It's a different story with my WRX - I push it harder and autox with it, so it will get 3000 mile changes at least.
leecea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2003, 03:02 AM   #12
ha-evolution
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 31556
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: EC, WI
Vehicle:
15 STI WRB ordered
09 Accord Coupe V6 mt

Default

I kinda think the $60 it costs to use the shorter oil change interval as cheap insurance. This is assuming you are driving 20k miles a year and pay $30 an oil change. Why take a chance for such a measly amount (when compared to the total cost of vehicular ownership).
ha-evolution is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2003, 04:51 AM   #13
lstepnio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10972
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Tampabay, Florida
Vehicle:
2004 STi (fuxor3d!!)
2004 Forester X

Default

I'll agree with playing it safe but with that aside my findings based on scientific oil analysis have indicated that Mobile-1 synthetic motor oil in my Cobb Stage II modified 30,000 mile engine at almost 6,000 miles of Florida summer driving(considered extreme condtions) is still good to go without any signs of breakdown or contamination(contamination levels would easily vary from EJ20 to EJ20 depening on the health of the motor). I honestly would have no issues keeping the oil in longer if it wasn't for the oil filter which without any scientific testing but in my opinion need replacing at this point to play it safe.

I agree though, it's cheap insurance but it's certainly intresting what oil analysis reveals that clearly and scientificly contridicts the marketing hype of service departments and many oil manufacturers simply posed to make money.

This in mind my wife's RSX suggests a 9,000 mile interval for oil changes with traditional non-synthetic oils. The Acura dealership even suggested against changing the oil at 3,000 when my wife brought the car in for service citing the impacts on the enviroment and resources which no one ever seems to consider. Just something to think about.
lstepnio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2003, 10:06 AM   #14
Tim Sanderson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6486
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: S.E. wisconsin
Vehicle:
00 Impreza 2.5 RS
Blue Ridge Pearl

Default

I'm using my oil till 10k at least. I'll have it tested at that point. I have a more sophisticated filtration system than most so my oil is still clear at 6k miles, and going.
Tim Sanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2003, 04:34 PM   #15
DerFahrer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30727
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Orlando, FL
Vehicle:
2000 Legacy B4 RSK
*Formerly subyluvr2212*

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by lstepnio
You can't go wrong following the suggestions in the owners manual.
I couldn't disagree with you more.

Here is my analysis. SOA puts 7500 miles in the owner's manuals because they want to sell more cars. Period.

I work at a Toyota dealer, and I have seen what happens when oil doesn't get changed often enough.

I don't mean to be rude, but why are you trying to stretch out your oil changes as far as possible? Don't you care about your car? I do whatever is necessary to make sure the various components of my vehicle receive the best maintenance possible. Remember: maintenance is always cheaper than repairs!

I changed my last batch of oil at 3,002 miles. Exactly. My car has 123,400 miles on it and runs better than some of the new cars on my Toyota lot.
DerFahrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2003, 06:00 PM   #16
lstepnio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10972
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Tampabay, Florida
Vehicle:
2004 STi (fuxor3d!!)
2004 Forester X

Default

I know that your qualification of working at the Toyota dealership has a ton or merit on the subject and I also don't mean to be rude here but my statements are based on solid scientific data and not just speculation or opinions.

I can assure you that I do care about my car, environment and our limited supply of natural resources. I'm also not big into wasting my hard earned money and our resources on stupid crap that has been scientificly proven to be undoubtably needless and totally wasteful. I can assure that I wouldn't spend the additional money on synthetics and oil testing if I didn't care about these things. I'm also not stretching out anything as far as as possible as all test indicators point that the oil would totally usable for well over 15,000 miles and going.

You're wasting bandwidth with your totally unfounded opinions.

Quote:
Originally posted by subyluvr2212


I couldn't disagree with you more.

Here is my analysis. SOA puts 7500 miles in the owner's manuals because they want to sell more cars. Period.

I work at a Toyota dealer, and I have seen what happens when oil doesn't get changed often enough.

I don't mean to be rude, but why are you trying to stretch out your oil changes as far as possible? Don't you care about your car? I do whatever is necessary to make sure the various components of my vehicle receive the best maintenance possible. Remember: maintenance is always cheaper than repairs!

I changed my last batch of oil at 3,002 miles. Exactly. My car has 123,400 miles on it and runs better than some of the new cars on my Toyota lot.

Last edited by lstepnio; 08-02-2003 at 07:28 PM.
lstepnio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2003, 06:58 PM   #17
rottenspam
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 21297
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: League City, TX
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT LT
Atlantic Blue Pearl

Default

This topic comes up time and time again. Lets stop with the opinion and look at the facts.....

1) The only way to know how long you can go between oil changes is to have the oil analyized. No other method can tell you how long you can go between oil changes, not oil color, driving conditions etc.

2) The 3000 mile oil change is a myth preptuated by quick-lube places and dealerships becasue the more often you change your oil the more money they make

3) It has not been proven yet that under most peoples driving conditions that 3000 mile oil changes are necessary. In fact if your using synthetic oil your throwing your money away with 3000 mile oil changes.


Several people here on the forums have posted their oil analyis results after various amounts of driving.

There is a guy who did oil changes after 5300 miles do a search.

here is a guy who did 7000 miles between changes
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=389986

here is a guy who is gone 14,000 miles since his last oil change
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/s.../oil-life.html

I've yet to see anyone who did an oil anaylsis that said he/she needed to change their oil at only 3000 miles. If your using a synthetic like mobile 1 7500 mile oil changes are probably pretty safe.

Of course there is a lot more to oil changes than I'm stating here. Filter quality, temepratures, age of the car, driving conditions all have an impact and there is a world of info out there.

Bottom line anyone who tells you that you should change the oil at some magic number aka 3000 miles is selling you BS the only way you know when you need to change the oil is to have an oil analysis.
rottenspam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2003, 09:53 PM   #18
NicGordon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 24827
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
2008 Kia Spectra

Default

Porsche's recommended interval for the GT2 is: Oil every 12,000 miles, filter every 24,000 miles, and coolant=NEVER!

Pretty confident about their product I guess. But dang, that's crazy.
NicGordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2003, 10:03 PM   #19
Full_Clip
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22218
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: University of Florida
Default

The oil at 3,000 mi/every 3 months seems like cheap insurance. Just pick up a box of Mobil 1 at Sams and you'll be set for the year.


Full_Clip likes it cheap 'n easy.
Full_Clip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2003, 11:21 PM   #20
WRX-REANIMATOR
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 41088
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jersey Shore
Default

The tune of the vehicle has a major impact on the life of your oil. Given the proper operating conditions, 7500 miles shouldn't be any problem whatsoever. Race tuned engines with richer air/fuel ratios however, end up with fuel in the oil which will accelerate the wear on the cylinder walls and engine bearings. The quality of the fuel you use will also affect what ends up in the oil.

Just my 2 cents
WRX-REANIMATOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2003, 07:23 AM   #21
Keith99RS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9243
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Suffield, CT
Vehicle:
05 Nissan Titan
06 B9 (hers)

Default

What is encompassed with this oil analysis? Most oil analysis' look for particles in the oil, not viscosity breakdown.

If you feel confident changing your oil at 14,000 miles go ahead. I had a guy at work do that with his Dodge Dakota and the oil was total sludge. Same thing with an Astro Van at my last job. 10,000K oil changes are not recommended. Your oil may test ok, but that doesn't mean some of it isn't clogging up something internally that you can't see. When you lose oil between oil changes where does it go. Could be burning off, could be turning to sludge and depositing itself in your engine. You don't know. after running 3 vehicles over 160K (one almost 200K) and doing oil changed approx. every 3K I'm convinced it isn't overkill. Heck, even lawn tractors give you an oil change interval.

Porche probably gets away with longer intervals due to pure synthetic. Synthetic doesn't breakdown, so concievably you could just change the oil filter and it will clean up and be fine, but that isn't the case with normal dino oil.
Keith99RS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2003, 10:13 AM   #22
lstepnio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10972
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Tampabay, Florida
Vehicle:
2004 STi (fuxor3d!!)
2004 Forester X

Default

I know that blackstone offers an additional service for breakdown of the oil at a cost beyond the check for containments. If you took the time to read carefully you would of realized that I already addressed this question very clearly and early on in the thread.

About the TBN additional service: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do_i_need_a_tbn_.html

The Dodge Dakota/Astro Van with sludge point you bring up was also clearly touched upon by "rottenspam" and others pointing out the fact that it these things all depend on the motor, tune, health and conditions. You might very well be right as these motors given their health, tune and conditions might need oil changes every 3,000-7,000 miles and no one here is arguing this.

If your is oil testing "ok" for containments and for breakdown there isn't something magical that is invisible to scientific testing that is going to be clogging up the motor. You have to stop for one second and realize how silly what you are suggesting sounds.

Here is a sample report:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/auto_report_1.html

Quote:
Originally posted by Keith99RS
What is encompassed with this oil analysis? Most oil analysis' look for particles in the oil, not viscosity breakdown.

If you feel confident changing your oil at 14,000 miles go ahead. I had a guy at work do that with his Dodge Dakota and the oil was total sludge. Same thing with an Astro Van at my last job. 10,000K oil changes are not recommended. Your oil may test ok, but that doesn't mean some of it isn't clogging up something internally that you can't see. When you lose oil between oil changes where does it go. Could be burning off, could be turning to sludge and depositing itself in your engine. You don't know. after running 3 vehicles over 160K (one almost 200K) and doing oil changed approx. every 3K I'm convinced it isn't overkill. Heck, even lawn tractors give you an oil change interval.

Porche probably gets away with longer intervals due to pure synthetic. Synthetic doesn't breakdown, so concievably you could just change the oil filter and it will clean up and be fine, but that isn't the case with normal dino oil.
lstepnio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2003, 11:35 PM   #23
Mike Wevrick
RIP 1/19/64 - 7/23/11
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 24654
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: saraseager.com
Vehicle:
1957 Taggart Comet
atlasshruggedpart1.com

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by subyluvr2212



I changed my last batch of oil at 3,002 miles. Exactly. My car has 123,400 miles on it and runs better than some of the new cars on my Toyota lot.
I have a 95 legacy with 170,000 miles on it. The car did a mix of city, secondary road, and highway driving. I changed the oil ever 5000 and it still runs fine. Does that prove anything? Maybe not, but since my WRX is driven almost entirely on the highway I'm going the full 7500.
Mike Wevrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2003, 11:50 PM   #24
Mean
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12116
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Northern VA
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
Sedona Red Pearl

Default

I change the oil in all my cars with Mobil 1 and I do it every 6 months. I will tell you why I do not go by mileage. This really only works if you are not a super high mileage driver.

The car I autocross (SE-R) doesn't go on long trips except to and from events and goes about 2k miles in 6 months. Most of the time is at or near redline.

The primary trip car (the WRX) is usually between 4k and 5k miles in the same time.

The 97 Impreza Wagon did about 1400 miles all year last year and it was all short driving because I was hauling something.

Because high mileage usually means more highway cruising and low mileage usually means more stop and go, going by time seems to be more accurate of a gauge for the oil change interval. At least it works for me.

G
Mean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2003, 11:59 PM   #25
Keith99RS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9243
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Suffield, CT
Vehicle:
05 Nissan Titan
06 B9 (hers)

Default

Instepnio - Using your logic, you are rendering the oil analysis data useless. If you wait 10,000 miles to analyze oil for breakdown or particle contamination, it may already be too late and damage may have already been done by particles or other contaminants. You need to do the analysis at some sort of reasonable scheduled interval and continue to do it. Not just go by doing it once or using someone elses results and assuming your engine is the same. We do oil analysis everyday on aircraft where I work after the last flight of the day to make sure all is good for their next flight. Oil tests ok, plane flys. If a problem is found, either notes are made to increase analysis interval to twice a day or the plane is grounded for investigation into what is causing the discepant readings. This is done between scheduled oil changes stated in the technical manuals written by (get this) the people who engineered the engines. I think when the built the engines they had a good idea on what an oil change interval should be. They didn't just come up with an arbitrary number and stick it in a tech manual. Driving conditions, weather conditions and oil types vary too much to just take a sample every 10K or so and assume all is good and just keep running your oil. Oil analysis is a good tool to use, but I wouldn't base oil change interval on the results. Also like I said before, I wouldn't try and make a warranty claim doing 10K oil changes and try to explain to SOA that "but the oil tested good when I had it analyzed".

There is also the oil filter to take into consideration. You may be better at oil changes than I, but I tend to lose a bit of oil while changing out the filter and get messy while doing it. I figure if I'm going to add oil after changing the filter and get messy anyways, I might as well spend a few bucks and change the oil as well. A spent filter isn't doing your engine any good.

By the way the Dodge Dakota was brand new in it's first 10K miles. Yes I know the owner wasn't too bright.
Keith99RS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jack or Ramp for oil change? FreytheViking Newbies & FAQs 33 07-09-2009 08:42 PM
Did my dealer screw up my oil change?!? stevessti Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) 9 12-30-2004 10:48 PM
fact or myth on oil change? hey1 Newbies & FAQs 7 10-22-2004 07:30 PM
Oil overfill on oil change- bad? Integra-R Service & Maintenance 5 09-28-2003 01:57 PM
Oil leak from starter - overfilled on oil change? codger Service & Maintenance 3 07-16-2003 08:33 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2015, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.