Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday December 25, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-31-2003, 04:28 PM   #1
8Complex

Moderator
 
Member#: 922
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Vehicle:
04 FXT
Red

Default Very confused... vehicle changes vs. tuning issues...

So a week or so ago I had to replace my clutch fork (cracked one of the prongs nearly off it!) and I got convinced by a friend to install my street spec cams that I've had laying around. There is less overlap and the lift is higher, so I figured I'd be lean.

I was out tuning all last night and for the life of me I can't figure out why I'm so damned rich all over the place. It was so bad that after I got off the gas, I'd POUR smoke from the tailpipe burning excess fuel. I used my near-WB meter to bring it off 10:1 (obviously innaccurate, probably was richer) to around 12:1 and got pinging all across the map! Previously I had run the car around 12.7:1 across the map until around 6k where I richened it up to about 12:1 or so -- and I had no pinging.

So the jist of it is, I add cams, run far richer AND have to pull timing... what gives??
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
8Complex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2003, 04:47 PM   #2
Paul H
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 21842
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
Black with Dents

Default

I may be way off base but did you check the trigger positions after the new cams were installed?
Paul H
Paul H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2003, 05:43 PM   #3
RiftsWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6124
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Glendale Hts, IL, USA
Vehicle:
2000 NFR AP1 S2000
'07 Honda FIT sport (5MT)

Default

that's what I was thinking... a timing issue.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
RiftsWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2003, 06:45 PM   #4
8Complex

Moderator
 
Member#: 922
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Vehicle:
04 FXT
Red

Default

Trigger positions? I run the stock triggers, and I'm quite sure that the stock timing belt went on correctly (as I've done it many many times). I know it's quite impossible to put it on backwards as well since the teeth/marks would be off.
8Complex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2003, 07:40 PM   #5
Paul H
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 21842
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
Black with Dents

Default

Is there not a cam position sensor? Again I may be way off but could you have put the new cams in but not orientated the way the stock ones were. I am a bit out of my depths here but I remember reading at the Haltech yahoo support site of a guy having similair problems.
Double check you setup in the haltech as I have heard of the settings mysteriously change after modifications have been done.

Paul H
Paul H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2003, 08:42 PM   #6
8Complex

Moderator
 
Member#: 922
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Vehicle:
04 FXT
Red

Default

Not really... the cams have notches in the end to assure the cam pulley is on only a single direction, the cam sensor only fits in one way and can't move in it's bore more then 1/32" if that, and the belt is on right.

The car had already needed a valve lash adjustment before I put in the cams, and got it after that from our resident Subaru genius.

Perhaps with less overlap it is scavenging much less exhaust gasses, and that was helping in deter detonation? I'm quite guilty of tuning my car one step back from detonation, so I suppose if that was the case, it'd be likely... I still don't understand the fueling issue, though.
8Complex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2003, 09:05 PM   #7
Paul H
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 21842
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
Black with Dents

Default

I think that you should try over at yahoo. Check your settings for your trigger first though. It is a long shot but you never know.
Good luck!
Paul H
Paul H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2003, 03:01 AM   #8
8Complex

Moderator
 
Member#: 922
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Vehicle:
04 FXT
Red

Default

Well, I think I may have figured a thing or two out, but I haven't done the math as to how they're related.

When I reinstalled the kit, I was fairly sure I was going to have an uppipe leak (yes, aftermarket RS-T kits can have those!). I am thinking that is possibly skewing my results at the A/F gauge, and also probably has some effect on intake airflow.

I managed to get off a run tonite through 4th gear that showed my A/F's right where they should be for my tune... but DAMN was the car pulling like a banshee.

I also put a .109" restrictor in the oil feed, but I will be putting an even smaller one in there after talking to someone about the size of the hole in the banjo bolts of a WRX feed. I will try .063" and see how that works. Note that the stock diameter of the -4AN line is .175" so it's pretty significant of a drop. (in case you're wondering about all the oiling talk --> link)
8Complex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2003, 03:41 AM   #9
HndaTch627
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6551
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Carol Stream, IL
Vehicle:
'01 GC8 Dinged STM
'09 Concours 14 ABS Black

Default

glad to see you are satisfied with the results
HndaTch627 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2003, 05:35 AM   #10
8Complex

Moderator
 
Member#: 922
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Vehicle:
04 FXT
Red

Default

Yeah, and after pulling timing. *shrug*

Man do I hate this car. It makes every little thing difficult.
8Complex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2003, 11:20 AM   #11
digitaltekniq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18029
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ATX
Default

If it was easy it wouldn't be worth the effort - you know you love it
digitaltekniq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2003, 12:10 PM   #12
HndaTch627
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6551
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Carol Stream, IL
Vehicle:
'01 GC8 Dinged STM
'09 Concours 14 ABS Black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by digitaltekniq
If it was easy it wouldn't be worth the effort - you know you love it
that's what i keep telling him

nick remember now with the cams your cylinder loads are higher which means you can't run as much timing, but it takes less timing to make the same if not more power due to the higher pressure in the combustion chamber. i told ya you'd need to retune it. just think of how quiet your motor is now though

jeremy
HndaTch627 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2003, 12:53 PM   #13
stimpy
Homicidal Maniac
Moderator
 
Member#: 1612
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Austin, TX
Vehicle:
2008 STI

Default

I was amazed at the difference my cams made on my natty RS. I purchased the cams with the idea that I was going to boost with them; although it never happened. It is good to hear from somebody else who got it going. I know Jon Bogart said it made a big difference on his car.

Cams are cool. 'Nuff said.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Trey recommends doing anything with the WRX cams unless you convert to a shim under bucket design ($$). Maybe I'll just have to source some STi heads in a year.

-Jon
stimpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2003, 02:16 PM   #14
HndaTch627
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6551
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Carol Stream, IL
Vehicle:
'01 GC8 Dinged STM
'09 Concours 14 ABS Black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by stimpy
I was amazed at the difference my cams made on my natty RS. I purchased the cams with the idea that I was going to boost with them; although it never happened. It is good to hear from somebody else who got it going. I know Jon Bogart said it made a big difference on his car.

Cams are cool. 'Nuff said.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Trey recommends doing anything with the WRX cams unless you convert to a shim under bucket design ($$). Maybe I'll just have to source some STi heads in a year.

-Jon
or you use the one piece shim/bucket
HndaTch627 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Very Confused about 225 45 r 17 horf Tire & Wheel 1 05-30-2005 04:10 AM
What changes in tuning for 92 vs. 100 octane? scooby24 Engine Management & Tuning 11 03-23-2005 06:09 PM
Very confused about speakers... x Neo x STi Forum Archive 16 07-08-2003 10:26 PM
very confused RS_2002 Brakes, Steering & Suspension 2 02-01-2002 10:31 AM
('93-'01) I need advice... please read... I am very confused.... (kinda long) SubaTubaru Impreza Forum 26 07-25-2001 07:36 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.