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Old 08-06-2003, 05:03 PM   #1
ataac_flat04
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Default Post IC temps

Any one logged post intercooler air temps. Be curious to see what the average charge temps people are seeing. Also those figures would be research for a project I'm thinking about. TIA -Chuck
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Old 08-07-2003, 09:29 AM   #2
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I keep considering it, but if I do it, I'm going to buy a LabJack unit to hook up to my laptop running DeltaDash. Between that cost and the temperature probes, I'm looking at $150 and I can't justify the cost to myself for just my curiosity's sake. Between my 3-gauge setup and DeltaDash, I've already spent $1000 on data acquisition...

You may want to PM user 'Austin'. I think he has done it before.
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Old 08-07-2003, 10:02 AM   #3
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Thanks, I'll send him a message. Was just looking for some approximate numbers, a general guide to go by. -Chuck
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Old 08-07-2003, 10:23 AM   #4
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Check this post, it offers lots of intake temp info for various setups.
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Old 08-07-2003, 11:50 AM   #5
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Unabomber... Thread looked familiar, turns out I posted in it. When I tired the search feature it kept saying "server too busy". That's the info I was looking for though. Thanks for the refresh. -Chuck
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Old 08-07-2003, 01:56 PM   #6
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Chuck - I'll just respond to your pm here.

While moving post IC temps are usually within 3 to 5 degrees C (sorry, I only talk in Celcius...) of ambient temps. For ambient temps, I use billboard signs and the IAT portion of the MAF sensor. I don't know the accuracies of those, so take that 3-5 degrees with a grain of salt.

As far as how much temps rise while under boost, it completely depends on your setup. Take 2 guys with the same turbos and same intercoolers. Guy #1 has done nothing extra. Guy #2 has all silicon hoses, has ported everything he can, machined down all the crappy cast pieces in the air path to completely remove all air flow trips, pulled the TGV's out, full port matched catless exhaust, blah blah blah.

At the same boost, guy#1's turbo is working much harder and pumping out much hotter air. Guy#2's turbo is operating much more efficiently which makes for a cooler pre-intercooler charge.
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Old 08-07-2003, 04:38 PM   #7
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Thumbs up

Austin, fair enough. I figured it would be somewhat difficult to pin down #'s for temps. To sum up, the goal is keep MAT's close or below ambient, and keep restrictions to a minimum for a cooler charge. I thank everyone for their input, it's time to experiment with parts now. -Chuck
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Old 08-07-2003, 08:05 PM   #8
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Well, I can tell you this much, if you can get to ambient temps and stay there you are doing good. The only way you are going to get below is to spray the intercooler (with water, no2, etc). I have one other intake I am going to install this weekend and do some testing, and I am going to start up another thread. i know running the short ram, I am about 10-15 degrees over ambient, so a cai does work, the only problem is that I am flowing enough air through the motor that I get some weird stuff happening every once and a while. I am going back to the stock box with a ram air tube going from the stock box to the back of the foglight hole.

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Old 08-08-2003, 01:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRX1
Well, I can tell you this much, if you can get to ambient temps and stay there you are doing good. The only way you are going to get below is to spray the intercooler (with water, no2, etc). I have one other intake I am going to install this weekend and do some testing, and I am going to start up another thread. i know running the short ram, I am about 10-15 degrees over ambient, so a cai does work, the only problem is that I am flowing enough air through the motor that I get some weird stuff happening every once and a while. I am going back to the stock box with a ram air tube going from the stock box to the back of the foglight hole.
Russ
I have "cold sinked" the intake side tank of my TXS TMIC to about 6 degrees F under ambient. The setup is new, so I am still testing it.

This is with a sprayer having a long bar with six very fine mist nozzles. I couldn't do in a practical way with one Sti nozzle which uses much more water per minute than the six small orifice disks. I have distilled water in an Sti tank and pump setup in the trunk. I like to know that the termal mass of the IC is on the cool side before running at high boost. Sometimes the air alone does that, but with mist it cools down faster and goes lower in temp.

I monitor temps at the snorkel intake, cold tank, and hot tank. I see huge heat soaking at all sensors after parking for about 20 minutes in the sun. The snorkle sensor easily pegs to 160+ F, since it sits above the radiator. I start spraying as I leave the parking lot. The Snorkle sensor responds first by cooling fast to ambient. Then I get the the cold tank temp close to the ambient incoming snorkle air. The temp of the hot tank also decreases rapidly, until you go to sustained boost, but spraying brings that down too. In terms of thermal mass, the most important temp is the cold tank temp.

I have a UTEC, but data logging is more of a chore, and I am still just eyeballing the three thermometers.
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Old 08-09-2003, 08:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by z&cobb


I have "cold sinked" the intake side tank of my TXS TMIC to about 6 degrees F under ambient. The setup is new, so I am still testing it.

Perhaps my brain is on vacation and I'm missing something obvious, but without refrigeration no amount of "cold sinking" and spraying will ever amount to an intake charge that is lower than ambient. If at any point your charge is lower than ambient, spraing your intercooler with ambient temp water will result in heating your intake charge and not cooling it.

With that said, anyone thought of making a refrigerated intercooler? Or maybe just a refrigerated water spraying system?

-smeade
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Old 08-09-2003, 11:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by stephenmeade


Perhaps my brain is on vacation and I'm missing something obvious, but without refrigeration no amount of "cold sinking" and spraying will ever amount to an intake charge that is lower than ambient. If at any point your charge is lower than ambient, spraing your intercooler with ambient temp water will result in heating your intake charge and not cooling it.

With that said, anyone thought of making a refrigerated intercooler? Or maybe just a refrigerated water spraying system?

-smeade
Evaporative cooling effect with a fine mist that evaporates, rather than just flowing through the intercooler. It's not a very big effect, so I just made a test bar with 12 misters on it. These are the kind of misters that can produce a 15 degree temperature drop in the air around your chair.

Misty Mate Coolers
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Old 08-10-2003, 10:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by z&cobb


Evaporative cooling effect with a fine mist that evaporates, rather than just flowing through the intercooler. It's not a very big effect, so I just made a test bar with 12 misters on it. These are the kind of misters that can produce a 15 degree temperature drop in the air around your chair.

Misty Mate Coolers
Don't worry about the brain not working thing. Even (especially) experts have told me what's impossible many times. As a result I take that as an invitation to test and invent. That's why I have a lot of time on my hands now to keep playing around as I see fit.

My advice to others is look for opportunities in the land between possible and impossible. Then don't argue, just demonstrate, and let the expert explain it after the fact. Experts don't mind proving that something can be done after it becomes obvious. Then they see if they hadn't stopped on page 3, but had also looked at page 33, and then noted the facts on page 333, they might have anticipated it themselves. But a lot of people don't connect the dots, especially between the different books.



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Old 08-10-2003, 01:20 PM   #13
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Oh no, I thought I was forgetting something obvious with the sprayers, and I was! Now what you really need are little ice shards so we can aim for sublimative cooling (though I don't think the IC gets hot enough to allow it with water anyway). My only remaining question is, what types of humidity do you see in your climate? My guess is that sprayers only work (as far evaporative effect goes) in dry climates where evaporation is considerably more likely to occur.

-smeade


Quote:
Originally posted by z&cobb


Don't worry about the brain not working thing. Even (especially) experts have told me what's impossible many times. As a result I take that as an invitation to test and invent. That's why I have a lot of time on my hands now to keep playing around as I see fit.

My advice to others is look for opportunities in the land between possible and impossible. Then don't argue, just demonstrate, and let the expert explain it after the fact. Experts don't mind proving that something can be done after it becomes obvious. Then they see if they hadn't stopped on page 3, but had also looked at page 33, and then noted the facts on page 333, they might have anticipated it themselves. But a lot of people don't connect the dots, especially between the different books.



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Old 08-10-2003, 06:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by stephenmeade
Oh no, I thought I was forgetting something obvious with the sprayers, and I was! Now what you really need are little ice shards so we can aim for sublimative cooling (though I don't think the IC gets hot enough to allow it with water anyway). My only remaining question is, what types of humidity do you see in your climate? My guess is that sprayers only work (as far evaporative effect goes) in dry climates where evaporation is considerably more likely to occur.

-smeade


Instead of ice you could expel CO2 from an expansion nozzle and have something more practical than the slurry of ice/water. It takes a lot to cryogrind water in liquid nitrogen. I have done this to create composites that could not be made by other means.

Yes, under perfect conditions small water mist particles will not evaporate if the air is 100 % saturated, super-saturated, or if it is raining. I have used that to make polymer membranes as thick as oil sheens on water, down to black. The membrane forms when you turn off the source of vapor, or raise the temperature of the chamber.

If air is not fully saturated, and for some reason the temperature should be increased by some means it becomes less saturated since you have not added any water but have made it hotter in the region where the object to be cooled resides. If the mist particles do not cool the air before entering the IC, the nature of the evaporation is different, but cooling is still observed.

A couple of hours ago, I made a run up South Mountain with air flow and mist flow completed at the bottom flat. In other words with 111 F at the hot tank and 84 on the cool tank, and air into the snorkle at 82. Temperatures (no spraying) at the top were 135 hot tank, 85 cold tank, and 83 at the snorkle. Downhill running, without spraying, brought the temperatures down again. I did a lot of tests and used 1/2 gallon of distilled water, mostly after engine off heat soaks, where the cold tank has read 140 to 155 F, due to its location. I am going to test some other cooling hardware next.

How intercoolers seem to work
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