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Old 08-07-2003, 02:07 PM   #51
robmarch
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Default Re: Sheep!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Limey
I hope JLMarx will come clean and tell the whole story.

Mr. Marx neglects to tell you guys ...

Our sales manager sold the STi to the next customer on the list NOT some 'joe' off the street waving cash!

Some customers like Mr. Marx have been called and told that their car is arriving sooner than we thought and they have asked to be put further down the list which is no problem. That is what we did with Mr. Marx.

I admit that these deals can be very challenging and sometimes not everything goes to plan but nothing is ever done malicously or unethical like Mr. Marx is claiming.

I just want you guys to know the other side of the story because there always is one.

This is pretty clearly a rebuttal of several of jlmarx's points, which constitutes an e-argument.

for whatever that's worth.
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Old 08-07-2003, 02:07 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by STeye
I don't see a dealer arguing with a customer. I saw a dealer stating what he believes are the facts, just to show both sides of the story. That does not make it an argument. I doubt that he will take part in the rebuttal that takes place. What I do see is a case of a bunch of people getting carried away with an idea when they have little or no confirmed information. A case of bandwagoning you could say. This is one of the problems with this "information age" we live in. You have to take things with a grain of salt. One cannot decide who is at fault based on the information found here.
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Old 08-07-2003, 03:16 PM   #53
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Wow, that really is two different stories.

On first glance I would lean towards going with the person not calling us SHEEP.

Either JLMARX is continuing to stretch the facts as stated by Limey or Limey doesnt have all the information, or is being handed false information to come save some face on a Subaru message board.

Help us out here.

_____________________________________________

This is a juicy one:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Marx neglects to tell you guys that his Sti came in last month but he was not ready to purchase and passed up that car for one in our next allocation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No such information was relayed to me, and I made no such decision. The only thing that even compares to what you are saying is that about a month ago I was told my car was to arrive shortly. Then, I received another called a few days later, saying there was a "delay in the pipeline" and my car would be a couple more weeks away.
__________________________________________________ _

Thats a bit different than "He passed up the car". Sounds more like you guys did this TWICE of all things.
I say try and clear this up by getting the facts before you come on here and claim the problem was caused by the customer and not your salespeople(Which is what it looks like even more after your post in this thread).

Cheers,

The Sheep
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Old 08-07-2003, 03:32 PM   #54
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Unfortunately unles you have a contract that states a guarateed delivery date and or a specific VIN# it wasn't "your" car. Morally not right, but very legal. Placing a deposit to get a specific color on an approximate date leaves things wide open for the dealer. Now if you placed you initial deposite and they updated your contract with a build #, and then again with a VIN # upon completion then they are legally wrong. Other wise they have just sold another car and your really isn't in yet. Not that what they did is right, it's not. It is however legal. Nothing the BBB can do. See what happens when you try and get your deposite back. "What do you mean non-refundable"!
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Old 08-07-2003, 03:46 PM   #55
robmarch
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silver-Bolt
See what happens when you try and get your deposite back. "What do you mean non-refundable"!
who said it was non-refundable? The dealer rep said himself that one of the options was a refund of the deposit.

States that allow non-refundable deposits on cars are lame.
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Old 08-07-2003, 03:52 PM   #56
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Quote:
who said it was non-refundable? The dealer rep said himself that one of the options was a refund of the deposit.
Never stated, just a very common dealer tactic.
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Old 08-07-2003, 03:52 PM   #57
JLMarx
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silver-Bolt
Unfortunately unles you have a contract that states a guarateed delivery date and or a specific VIN# it wasn't "your" car. Morally not right, but very legal. Placing a deposit to get a specific color on an approximate date leaves things wide open for the dealer. Now if you placed you initial deposite and they updated your contract with a build #, and then again with a VIN # upon completion then they are legally wrong. Other wise they have just sold another car and your really isn't in yet. Not that what they did is right, it's not. It is however legal. Nothing the BBB can do. See what happens when you try and get your deposite back. "What do you mean non-refundable"!
Yes, you are completely correct. I agree with everything you say (well, except the part about getting my deposit back). I have no legal action, and I don't plan on persuing any. There were no laws broken.

There was, however, a lot of customer confidence lost. And unfortunately, the only recourse I have is to let other potential customers know about it and hopefully prevent them from the same situation. That is why I started this thread.
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Old 08-07-2003, 04:12 PM   #58
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I do beleve JLMarx 110% on this, im not the one to stereotype but, you can never beleve anyone who works at a car dealership, especially ones that read and post on here, Maestro Subaru really is just denying every claim to keep their name "Problem Free" so they can sell cars to people who are active members of NASIOC. If you owned a car dealership wouldent you want to keep your reputation problem free, even if it means lying to others about the situation?

I think thease threads are fantastic since your really weeding out the dealerships who are really unprofessional.

Speaking of Stellar Performance awards, its ironic where I live, all of the dealers here who are marked with this certification are all the ones marking up extrodinary, being ******** about the whole STI situation. The dealers who are not Stellar Performance certificed are the dealers who are willing to bite the bullet, willing to make a deal under MSRP on STI's.

Final say, Maestro Subaru is lying through their teeth on this one, it doesnt make sense to me to sell the car to another person when you already had a deposit on the car in the first place, maybe the way they had the paperwork made it ok to do, but its still really unethical.
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Old 08-07-2003, 04:13 PM   #59
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Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!
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Old 08-07-2003, 04:20 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!
Que?!
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Old 08-07-2003, 04:23 PM   #61
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I think Glenn is saying we are indeed all sheep.

I assume a Jerry Springer crowd = sheep reference.

Last edited by WRSport; 08-07-2003 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 08-07-2003, 04:32 PM   #62
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Ohhh....
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Old 08-07-2003, 04:43 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRSport
Glenn is saying we are indeed all sheep.

I assume a Jerry Springer crowd = sheep reference.
I thought he was refering to the cheers the audience yells out after the show's guests progress to the more effective conflict resolution tactics.

Like fists to the nose and boots to the head, at least until somone gets a chair across the face and the security team drags them back stage for more.

Then the crowd chants "Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!".
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Old 08-07-2003, 04:45 PM   #64
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Guess he will need to clarify.
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Old 08-07-2003, 04:52 PM   #65
lstepnio
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Default

Don't we already have a specific forum for threads exactly like this one?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/foru...?s=&forumid=57
I thought this specific STi forum was for factual information and question regarding the STi?


edit: I see it was already posted(cross posting):
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=402958

This whole thing situation so blown overboard and it sounds to me like everyone involved is full of crap to some degree. I vote that the thread be merged and moved to the appropriate forum.
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Old 08-07-2003, 04:59 PM   #66
JLMarx
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Quote:
Originally posted by lstepnio
Don't we already have a specific forum for threads exactly like this one?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/foru...?s=&forumid=57
I thought this specific STi forum was for factual information and question regarding the STi?


edit: I see it was already posted(cross posting):
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=402958

This whole thing situation so blow overboard and it sounds to me like everyone involved is full of crap to some degree. I vote that the thread be merged and moved to the appropriate forum.
lstepnio, in this thread and others you seem curiously pro-Mastro and anti-dissent. I noticed that you live in Tampa, I am wondering if you are affliated with Mastro in some way?

If I am off base here I sincerely apologize.
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Old 08-07-2003, 05:29 PM   #67
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Default

Yes, Istep, it is posted elsewhere.

If you look over there, you will see a similar situation that I replied to. Hopefully the gentleman who initiated the post is feeling vindicated with his public trashing of our store.


We take deposits to form a que of who gets a car first until supply settles down a bit. We don't addendum the cars, and have loads of happy customers.

If the gentleman had contracted on the cars the first and second opportunity, he would be an owner. He didn't. He further complicated the deal, by buying out of state at further expense to himself.

This is not the forum for this discussion. We have had direct contact with this customer and offers were made to accomodate. We don't hold cars while people get their situations sorted out, we sell cars. We even had another car earmarked for this customer, but until there is payment for the car, there is no sale.

This deal could have been contracted. It wasn't. The customer has already been refunded for his deposit. We wish him well in his STi purchase and I am asking that this exchange stop here and now. It's not the place for it.

Let's end it now.

Thanks
Bill at Mastro Subaru
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Old 08-07-2003, 05:36 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by MastroWRX
Let's end it now.
Why? You dont like your secrets reveled within a public forum?

It is only the beginning.
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Old 08-07-2003, 05:38 PM   #69
lstepnio
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JLMarx: NO, not at all. The fact actually is that Mastro wouldn't match or even counter offer on a price I got from another out of state dealership for the STi. I put my name on the waiting list at the out of state dealership with the better price.

I have purchased a car from them before in the past and couldn't be happier with the purchase and post sale service I have always received but I have zero loyalty to Mastro and I'll do business with whoever offers me the best deals.

The apology is accepted.

Last edited by lstepnio; 08-07-2003 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 08-07-2003, 06:21 PM   #70
agent2.8
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Quote:
Originally posted by MastroWRX
Yes, Istep, it is posted elsewhere.

If you look over there, you will see a similar situation that I replied to. Hopefully the gentleman who initiated the post is feeling vindicated with his public trashing of our store.


We take deposits to form a que of who gets a car first until supply settles down a bit. We don't addendum the cars, and have loads of happy customers.

If the gentleman had contracted on the cars the first and second opportunity, he would be an owner. He didn't. He further complicated the deal, by buying out of state at further expense to himself.

This is not the forum for this discussion. We have had direct contact with this customer and offers were made to accomodate. We don't hold cars while people get their situations sorted out, we sell cars. We even had another car earmarked for this customer, but until there is payment for the car, there is no sale.

This deal could have been contracted. It wasn't. The customer has already been refunded for his deposit. We wish him well in his STi purchase and I am asking that this exchange stop here and now. It's not the place for it.

Let's end it now.

Thanks
Bill at Mastro Subaru

Dealer arrogance rears ugly head. Congratulations Bill on being predictable.

JLMarx, PM me if you want links to (2)
available blue Sti(s) in Central PA for MRSP. Good luck.
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Old 08-07-2003, 07:14 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by agent2.8



Dealer arrogance rears ugly head. Congratulations Bill on being predictable.
At least he didn't call everybody sheep.
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Old 08-07-2003, 08:12 PM   #72
JLMarx
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MastroWRX,

I'm not sure how I can make this any more clear, but I will try.

Quote:
We take deposits to form a que of who gets a car first until supply settles down a bit. We don't addendum the cars, and have loads of happy customers.
But what does this queue mean if you can usurp it at will? Deposits become meaningless. And I'm sure you do have lots of happy customers, I used to be one. But that is irrelevant to this conversation.

Quote:
If the gentleman had contracted on the cars the first and second opportunity, he would be an owner. He didn't. He further complicated the deal, by buying out of state at further expense to himself.
If you are *again* implying that I was offered a car and refused it (more than once??), then you are *again* lying. I turned down no such STi. I made arrangements to pick up the first one that was offered to me. Furthermore, I'm not sure what point you're making by pointing out that I complicated matters by buying out of state. Are you saying that I should have bought from a local dealer and not given you my business in the first place? Surely, you can't be serious. If you are feigning intrest in my personal finances, I assure you, I don't need your corncern.

Quote:
This is not the forum for this discussion. We have had direct contact with this customer and offers were made to accomodate. We don't hold cars while people get their situations sorted out, we sell cars. We even had another car earmarked for this customer, but until there is payment for the car, there is no sale.
How is this not the forum to discuss this? This is where most prospective STi owners will come for information, and I am trying to disseminate information. Sounds like the perfect place to me. If by saying that you made offers to accomodate you mean you offered me the next car (whenever it may come in) with no discount, no concession, and most of all *no apology*, then you are right.

Quote:
This deal could have been contracted. It wasn't. The customer has already been refunded for his deposit. We wish him well in his STi purchase and I am asking that this exchange stop here and now. It's not the place for it.
I ask again, if this is not the place for it, then what is? And please tell me, how could I have done anything different to take delivery sooner? Because if there was a reasonable way to do so, I would have. Believe me, you wanted the car off your lot just as badly as I did. Please point out how I went wrong, because I have already pointed out several times all of the ways in which you have.
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Old 08-07-2003, 08:26 PM   #73
liigod
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just go to another dealer, obviously this one is being shady twards you.
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Old 08-07-2003, 09:07 PM   #74
robmarch
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Quote:
Originally posted by MastroWRX
This is not the forum for this discussion.
I'm not going to comment on any of the other stuff, because I think you made your point clearly, and Mr. Marx made his point clearly.



But, you're mistaken if you think this is the wrong forum. Hundreds, if not thousands of people every day come to this forum looking for info on the STi, including the best place to buy one, local or otherwise.

I posted a thread about my out of state purchase experience, in order to educate other potential buyers that they had an option, and illustrate some of the benefits and drawbacks.

Until these cars are sitting on lots and there are no waiting lists, this thread is in the appropriate place. You may not appreciate the information inside, but you've had your chance to respond to it, and now the potential buyers have the information they need to decide if they want to do business with your company or not.

Have a good one
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Old 08-07-2003, 09:24 PM   #75
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<Judge Judy>
You offered him his car one month ago and he declined right? You had no problem with that right? This month you tell him his car is in. He makes plans to come down and pick it up and then you tell him it's sold. What then, gives you the right to sell his car and then have the audacity to blame him because "He should have bought the first car he declined?"
</Judge Judy>

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