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Old 08-08-2003, 03:04 AM   #1
Nivek-CA
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Question STI Stainless Steel Brake Lines & Fluid ?s

I am looking for your input, opinions, and recommendations & warnings:

1) Do you have any brands that you stay away from or lean toward?

2) Has any manufacturer made a set of SS lines specifically for the STI application as of yet? If so, have you or anybody else used them? Cost? Results? Effectiveness?

3) Are these difficult to install? How much time should I expect my mechanic to take during the installation?

4) What manufacturer has been one of the best in supplying a top-end high quality brake part such as this which is so crucial to the car's performance?

5) High performance brake fluid recommendations, warnings, and input for the STI to be installed with the SS lines? (same questions as above)

Thanks so much for your input.
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Last edited by Nivek-CA; 08-08-2003 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 08-08-2003, 09:39 AM   #2
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Keepin' it short and sweet (and forgive me for my Japan based slant on things):

1. STi and Goodridge are both good

2. Obviously STi, not sure about others - someone will surely know (I guess Goodridge has them too - they sell them here already).

3. Not really if you know what you are doing. Mine took about 2hrs - 40minutes on the lines, 20minutes on fluid, waited about another hour to make sure ALL the air was out.

4. Obviously Goodridge is a solid brand. Other Japanese brands such as APP, Endless and Project Myu also have lines - dunno about OEM-ing between makers though.

5. Motul, AP Lockheed, and others. Some hi-perf fluids have a short life (moisture absorbtion is fierce)...IMHO, unless you are willing to change it out regularly don't go with a super duper high rating, just one that meets your needs.

HTH, and forgive for my weak knowledge of your local suppliers.
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Old 08-08-2003, 11:17 AM   #3
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Forgive my ignorance, but what is IMHO?
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Old 08-08-2003, 11:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Triple S
Forgive my ignorance, but what is IMHO?
In My Humble Opinion.
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Old 08-08-2003, 11:26 AM   #5
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just web speak:

IMHO = in my humble opinion

there are many others...heres a site:

http://www.houghi.org/jargon/IMHO.html

go and educate yourself.
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Old 08-08-2003, 12:21 PM   #6
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I've used Motel for years in my cars and never had any absorption problems. Awesome fluid that has never failed me, on the track or the street. Can get several track days before brakes even need to be bled. Great stuff
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Old 08-08-2003, 12:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oldnslow
I've used Motel for years in my cars and never had any absorption problems. Awesome fluid that has never failed me, on the track or the street. Can get several track days before brakes even need to be bled. Great stuff
Motul?
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Old 08-08-2003, 01:07 PM   #8
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Default STI brake lines,...

Having worked at a Subaru dealer as a service manager for 3 years,..I will tell you this. Of all the braided brake lines to use on your new STI,..I would use the STI brand,..for several reasons.

1) God forbid you have ANY brake problems, or you EBFD system fails,..abs pump,..computer,..anything at all........Trust me,..the dealer and DSM ( district service manager ) will be looking for anyway out of covering that claim. Subaru issued a bulletin last year addressed to the DSM's ,.that service managers were to update the main warranty computer should they encounter ANY modified WRX's. This happened because of the influx of warranty claims starting in the fall of 2001 for transmissions and internal repairs, clogged uppipes, and secondary cats. They sited the causes to be from customers using MBC and turning the boost wayyy up, and so on. MY POINT HERE IS,.....with the STI,..Subaru isnt gonna loose their asses in warranty claims,..so IF you're gonna change something,..try to use the STi brand,...even though its not accepted here in the states,...it would be better than having anything else. I had several customers who would not take my advise and take their exhuast off and switch back to stock, or remove their MBC,..BEFORE they came in to bitch about why Subaru wouldnt cover it,..of course,..the DSM comes in, sees that and says ,.."car has been modified,.no coverage on drivetrain,..or on brake system,..or what ever the effected area or system on the car. That means,..no matter what Subaru dealer in the continental USA you go to,..you aint got jack !!

So,.do what you want,...this much I know,...I have lowered my STI with the STi sport lowering springs,..I will add the STI braided lines, and use the STI upgraded 950 degree race-street pads, and try to obtain the titanium 2.75 cat back that comes on the S202 ( all have Subaru part # )

This way,...I have a standing chance in hell on not catching any sh-t should ,..like i said,....something fail,..God forbid it,......this is one time, you're not gonna want to be caught with your pants down !!

944 turbo guy.

I agree it is sad that we have to go through all the red tape,.but then again,..it could worst,..we could be still reading about the STI in Europe and Japan................
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Old 08-08-2003, 01:27 PM   #9
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944 turboguy--Hope you remember to take your Momo shift knob off and put your stock STI one back on before you go in for your wannanty claim......
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Old 08-08-2003, 01:27 PM   #10
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Turbo Guy... do you have sourcing & price info on the springs, lines & pads?

I want to lower my STi a bit too. Was considering using the ProDrive springs I took back off the WRX (with MY2002-3 rear upper spring perches). Would love to know if the STi lowering springs are matched to our struts.

Thanks,
Russ
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Old 08-08-2003, 01:49 PM   #11
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944T-G,
I second Russ's post above; where did you find the Sport springs and race pads. I'm switching to Motul 600 this weekend, and am interested in the pad switch also.

Did you take the STi to the track with the stock springs before you switched to the Sport springs? Is there a noticeable improvement in handling on a road course?
Not that I care much but is the compliance of the car markedly worse on the street with the new springs?
Pricing?
TIA
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Old 08-08-2003, 02:27 PM   #12
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I agree with the 944 turbo guy. I had the same conversation with my dealer and the more official Subaru bit you use the better you will be off in the respect to your warranty...but not your wallet. I'm trying to keep all my chages limited to Prodrive and STI bits... i.e. when I change my up-pipe it will be a STI catless, and as of 30mins ago my muffler is now a prodrive unit. When I change out my brake lines I will eat the cost and go with STI brake lines. etc. etc.

For the Brake lines and just about anything STI the absolute cheapest place I found was japanparts.com. It may take a little longer to get to you because it is coming from Japan but the price is right...

Example STI Brake Lines
Vivid Racing: 349.99
Japan Parts: 282.44

I saved my self $50 by getting my STI hoodscoop and STI mesh fog light covers from japanparts...

My $.02
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Old 08-08-2003, 03:10 PM   #13
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So the STi SS lines do fit the STi? The dealer's books that I have seen all say they are STi branded parts for the WRX, not the STi. Unless we're not talking about the same parts that the dealers sell. I want a set, but I haven't found anyone willing to admit they fit the STi.

Brake fluid: Castrol SRF is the best, but way too expensive ($70+ per liter) -- unless you've determined you need it or are really racing, don't bother. Motul RBF600 seems to be second best and is a more reasonable $12/half-liter or so. AP-600 is almost as good but a little more. ATE Super Blue is quite good and the cheapest at about $10/liter. Somewhat harder to find are the Wilwood fluids (EXP 600 Plus, 570) which have good numbers and the price isn't too bad.
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Old 08-08-2003, 03:56 PM   #14
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Default 20 Questions, by 50 cent.......

I have my own Co. and will up and running in Jan 1, 04' but until then,..Rallyspec,..Dave, can take good care of you,..he has been great. They can get ANYTHING STI,..STI underwear....!! just kidding.

1) Rallyspec sells the Springs,..$ 399.00 (ask for Dave, tell him Myles refered you.

2) The STI braided lines are not offered in the states, and therefore are not in the SOA brochures. You have to do some research and find the lines.

3) JAPAN PARTS never sent my front lip spoiler, or lines, or springs,..I ordered them in APRIL,...I cancelled in early July. !!!

4) Yes I have driven an STI on the track,...NO I havent with th new springs,.......( I just ran down the UPS man with money order in hand, and dude just pulled away,..6.3inch, 250 lbs, hauling ass after UPS driver,..very funny on a public street.

5) The STI 8 sport lowering springs are designed and matched for our,"spec-c struts",..I will have them on tonight,..and will drive to Pocono Saturday morning. Tonight I will drive 50 miles of back roads to feel em' out.

6) As much respect as I have for the Prodrive springs for the WRX,..they arent gonna be a good matchfor the STI struts,..Scott @ Prodrive USA says,." be Patient,..we have something coming out that will revolutionize suspension design,..." ( that was last sunday at a meet on the east coast) IMO,.unless its a cockpit adjustable compression and rebound, ride height servo, with instant 19's and spinners, they aint "revolutinizing nothin') Do I think and hear through the grapevine that they will offer a Ohlins or Bilstein adjustable strut for the STI,..that seems more realistic,..but nothing no one has done before. Prodrive will make a "lowerng spring" for the STI soon though.

7) And when you get ready to order from Japan parts, notice how much the freaking freight will be, and insurance,..all i'm saying is, Rallyspec brings enough stuff from Japan that they dont have crazy shipping prices and 2 month waits,..I ordered my springs july 18th,..they re here from half way around the world in a couple of weeks,..whats more to ask?

944 turbo guy

PS.. When Prodrive does introduce their suspension kit, I will have it,..no matter the cost. Same with the 400hp kit. for now,.the STi springs will have to do.
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Old 08-08-2003, 04:00 PM   #15
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Default and 1 more thing,...

Rallispec 609-702-7800 Dave, Greg or Genevie(Jenny from the block) Great people !!

AP 600 fluid, affordable, and better than the super blue, close to the SRF (65 dollars a quart !!)

944tg
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Old 08-08-2003, 05:07 PM   #16
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Here is the scoop guys...no STI parts, even if they are bought from the dealer, are covered under warranty technically. The warranty issue, as with most ownership issues, is largely up to dealer discretion to a certain point. Be upfront with your dealer about your intended mods...a good dealer who follows the scene will advise you what he is ok with, and what will leave you on your own.

As for brake lines, the ones for the WRX are the same...we have tons of the Goodridge coated ones in stock ready to go.

We have furnished STi ones before....way overpriced, same thing effectively as every other braided line.

Adam
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Old 08-08-2003, 06:07 PM   #17
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Interesting timing on this post... I'm in the process of installing [uncoated] Goodridge lines right now.

I'll have a bit more detailed write up later today/tonight. Basically, there are some small differences in the lines. They're the same length (at least the fronts), the banjo fitting is thicker on the STi lines and has a slightly larger outside diameter. Also, the pressure fitting end is just a bit different on the inside, but looks close.

Overall, the differences seem to be insignificant, so I'm proceeding with the swap.

More later.

Russ
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Old 08-08-2003, 06:30 PM   #18
wewu
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Are the STi braided brake lines DOT approved??

Also I remember reading from the bimmer forums that ss braided lines are bad news for street cars. Basically dirt and grit can get stuck in between the strands and cause the line to fail.. Therefore unless you are gonna check the lines every so often its a bad idea. They did suggest that if you were dead set on getting ss braided brake lines to get the ones with the coating on them to prevent dirt from getting underneath. Seems like too much of a hassle for a little better pedal feel, so I think I'll stick with the leave em and forget em stock brake lines.
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Old 08-08-2003, 07:20 PM   #19
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$300.00+ for STi brake lines? I think Mastro had the STi SS lines on sale a while back for a bit less than that, might want to check with them if they are still available.

I payed $100.00 for Goodridge SS lines on my WRX and they honestly couldn't possibly be made any better. This just isn't a part that's easily going to fail assuming it's installed correctly and the fitmet is perfect. The Goodridge came coated in a clear plastic so there wouldn't be any issues on street cars.
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Old 08-08-2003, 07:50 PM   #20
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Steel braided lines are totally worth it. But then again, I do a handful or two of track days a year. Makes Heel-Toe easier since the brake pedal doesn't sink too low like they do with rubber lines.

The lines are on. Just waiting for a buddy to come over to help me bleed 'em. Easy job. Everything went together very smoothly.

The dirt in the steel braided lines concern sounds a little wacky. Don't see this happening except maybe one unluvky person in a million. I think the only issue with non coated ones is possible scuffing of nearby parts. Doubtful though, since they're held in place pretty well.

Russ
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Old 08-08-2003, 08:16 PM   #21
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I just put Stop-Tech Stainless lines and Motul 600 fluid in preporation for a track day.The lines looked to be very good quality $75 front $72 rear.
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Old 08-08-2003, 10:15 PM   #22
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944 turbo guy,

The S202 back box is incredibly loud, and dare I say, you could well get pulled over it. When we tested the S202 we could hear the car 3 hills away at our "test course" in pouring rain.

Not to mention the small animals and children you could lose in there
Cheers
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Old 08-09-2003, 12:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: 20 Questions, by 50 cent.......

Quote:
Originally posted by 944 turbo guy
...no matter the cost. Same with the 400hp kit. for now,.the STi springs will have to do.
Here, here!

- Janq
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Old 08-09-2003, 04:08 AM   #24
rlavalle
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Well, here's the information I gathered from the Goodridge Brake Line Install:
PHP Code:
Front Banjo Fitting     Goodridge     STi
-----------------------------------------
Inside Diameter           10mm       10mm
Outside Diameter          15mm       17mm
Thickness                8.2mm     10.2mm 
The length of the brake lines were not significantly different. Almost identical. In fact, I couldn't say which version was longer.

The only difference I could see was in the Banjo fittings on the front lines. The STi's were thicker & larger in diameter, but both types had the same inside diameter.

In order to make sure the reduced thickness of the Goodridge banjo fitting was not a problem, I screwed a banjo bolt into a caliper by itself. It hit bottom with 7.5mm of head height above the caliper surface. So, with an 8.2mm banjo fitting, plus 2.3mm of washer thickness, the banjo bolt has plenty of room when torqued down. About 2.8mm to 3mm.

Here are photos I took comparing the lines. Goodridge lines are on the left except for the 3rd photo, where they're on the right.

Russ

Front Banjo fittings:


Another shot of the front Banjo Fittings:


The Front Pressure Fitting


The Rear Banjos:


Rear Pressure Fittings:
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Old 08-09-2003, 04:21 AM   #25
Nivek-CA
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Russ,

Can you give us your performance report after driving with the new SS lines installed? Also, how much did it cost you and how long did it take to install? Which vendor?
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