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Old 08-10-2003, 07:38 PM   #1
capt.sensible
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Question Input On Rally Performance EcuTek Reflashes?

Hello All,

I'm in the market for a reflash, and am intrigued by the Rally Performance/ScoobySport Stage 2 Package, which includes an EcuTek reflash, ScoobySport uppipe, downpipe, muffler, and Samco intercooler hoses. (See www.rallyperformance.com for a bit more info.)

I've tried searching, but I haven't found any feedback or comments from owners of the Rally Performance EcuTek reflash. If anyone's running this reflash, or the complete Stage 2 package, can you please post your opinions?

I'm mainly interested in the Rally Performance/ScoobySport Stage 2 because it uses ScoobySport exhaust parts, and I really like the sound and 25-year warranty. However, if nobody's runnning the Rally Performance reflash, I'm a bit wary of ordering it. Do you think I could combine a Vishnu EcuTek reflash with the ScoobySport parts?

Thank you.
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Old 08-10-2003, 08:35 PM   #2
turboICE
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Can't address the SS reflash.

You could try a Vishnu off the shelf tune - but keep in mind all his tunes were mapped for 3" aftermarket exhaust. I still maintain on the stock turbo it does not matter if you have 2 1/2" or 3" but a large group disagrees with me.

Anyway, I have SS header back without 3rd cat delete. Shiv tuned my Xede on it. If you are not going to go with SS's reflash you are better off getting a dyno tuned Ecutek since noone else will have an off the shelf for that setup. You can get one from Shiv at Pruven in CT the first weekend of October see the tri-state forum.
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Old 08-10-2003, 09:57 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by capt.sensible
I've tried searching, but I haven't found any feedback or comments from owners of the Rally Performance EcuTek reflash. If anyone's running this reflash, or the complete Stage 2 package, can you please post your opinions?

I'm mainly interested in the Rally Performance/ScoobySport Stage 2 because it uses ScoobySport exhaust parts, and I really like the sound and 25-year warranty. However, if nobody's runnning the Rally Performance reflash, I'm a bit wary of ordering it. Do you think I could combine a Vishnu EcuTek reflash with the ScoobySport parts?

Thank you.
There's absolutely no doubt that the ScoobySport sound is SWEET. It's my impression that the reflash maps offered by Rally Performance were actually developed in England. Ignoring the position of the steering wheel, I think our WRX and their WRX are identical, hardware-wise. I think you should give the Rally Performance ECU re-flash/exhaust upgrade a shot. I imagine it's very likely to be a safe tune, as opposed to re-flashes that start out with a maximum ignition advance after an ECU reset and describe themselves as "conservative."
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Old 08-10-2003, 10:15 PM   #4
turboICE
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There is a difference between maximum advance multiplier and maximum advance. It is actually much safer to have an off the shelf Ecutek tuned to the maximum multiplier than tuned to a lesser multiplier. If you tune the maps to be conservative at a midpoint multiplier and then the driver's habits advance the multiplier you could easily advance the variable timing to knock many times before the ECU fully learns to stay away from that timing setting.

By mapping to the maximum multiplier - driving habits can not advance the timing beyond the levels mapped - that is a conservative tune.

Edit: also I see no requirement for the user to actually set the advance multiplier after a reset - however after enough driving sessions it will arrive there on its own because the conservative tune is not experiencing knock. You can go to that point right after reset or you can get there a week later your call. I thought the purpose of Subaru's advance multiplier was better understood than to think that setting it to 16 was setting timing to a max level.

Last edited by turboICE; 08-10-2003 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 08-10-2003, 10:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
.... as opposed to re-flashes that start out with a maximum ignition advance after an ECU reset and describe themselves as "conservative."
Defaulting to the max. ign. advance multiplier was done to ensure that no adding advancing occurs over the course of time. We found the idea of additional advance somewhat troublesome-- especially considering that at some engine speeds knock learning is inhibited. Also supporting this notion is that not all knock activity (depending on which load/rpm point it occurs in) will result in drops to the IAM.

just my 2c,
Shiv
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Old 08-11-2003, 01:54 AM   #6
capt.sensible
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Question Thanks

Thank you to everyone who has replied -- I'm a newbie to ECU mods and I appreciate the discussion about reflashes. While I'm here, I've got another EcuTek reflash question: Do reflashes remove all the potential error codes the WRX will throw with a modified exhaust (errors for missing cats, temperatures, etc.) ? Again, I've tried to search, but all I've found is a few posts from AccessECU users who mentioned that they asked Cobb to remove specific errors (if that's the right word).

I'm surprised that nobody who owns the Rally Performance/Scooby Sport Stage 2 has replied to this thread. I thought SS exhaust parts were a popular mod, and I assumed that some SS buyers opted for the Rally Performance EcuTek flash when buying SS bits.

Jehcpa -- thanks for the dyno tip. Unfortunately, I'm moving from Boston to Southern California in early September, so I won't be around for the Tri-State dyno day. Poor timing on my part.

PH
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Old 08-11-2003, 07:51 PM   #7
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OK,

Last self-bump. Nobody's got the ScoobySport Stage 2 EcuTek?

Anyone?

Bueller?
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Old 08-13-2003, 12:52 AM   #8
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Default ECUs

Hello!

Just replying to this thread, didn't mean to let it languish...

The reflashes sold in the US actually were developed with good input from the UK, but also from a group here in the states. We tapped talent from Australia in the form of an Autronic rep who flies around the world mapping Imprezas and Evos for rally teams - and a race engine builder we work with who has 25 years of experience and a great MOTEC background.

We stay rather conservative with our mapping. Some may push a little bit more power, but our cars always stay happy. If you have specific questions, feel free to post them here.

Regards,
Ken
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Old 08-13-2003, 01:13 AM   #9
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Default Advance multiplier

Just a note on our approach to the advance multiplier -

Let me say first that Shiv does put out a nice product from what we have seen, so none of where we differ is meant to imply that he is wrong and we are right, etc etc... just two different approaches.

We do leave the initial advance multiplier setting at its stock point (8) so that the car will learn to advance timing based on what it encounters with the customer's car. When selling the ECU as part of an off the shelf performance pack, we felt that this was a better approach. We find that in normal weather, our cars stay quite happy and readily advance.

The strategy of setting it up higher initially to prevent over-advancing has merit perhaps with certain approaches to a remap. Because we have modified only certain bands with regard to timing, we are quite comfortable allowing the car to learn up as initially set.

We take a similar approach on the boost line - remember the old 3/16 mod? It is quite effective when installed with an ECU reflashed to take it into account. Vishnu uses a connector with a small hole, we simply include a 3/16 connector with our kit. Boost response is improved and you aren't up against the wall so much with maximum boost.

We offer two boost maps, one based off the standard map that maximizes fuel economy and minimizes turbo actuation - but offers stock boost levels under maximum throttle. The other is aggressive, with a very linear response and max boost of about 16.8 psi in the midrange.

For safety, we do hold boost nicely longer than stock, but tend to let that peak boost step down a little above 5k RPMs. Again, others aren't wrong, its just our conservativism for a car that you want to keep a long time.

If you really want it, we can make a custom map for you. We just mapped an open class rally car to hold 18 psi to redline... not with the stock turbo : )

Finally, on your question about codes - we have taken care of the low catalyst efficiency code on the ECU, but other CELs are free to illuminate as normal. We keep up with the latest Subaru revisions when the desensitize certain thresholds slightly, etc. so that reflashed cars have the benefit of Subaru's later tweaks.

Regards,
Ken
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Old 08-13-2003, 02:36 AM   #10
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What would be some of the disadvantages of have the advance multiplier set high like shiv's. Less adaptability in bad weather? If what shiv says is true about the ecu not learning to dial back ignition advance at certain speeds (high rpm when ecu stops listening to knock sensor?) What happens, do you just always have knock there, how does the ecu compensate? Thanks for your time, interesting topic.
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Old 08-13-2003, 03:05 PM   #11
capt.sensible
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Question Thanks

Ken,

Thanks for your responses. I have three further questions for you, if you don't mind:

What did you mean by "normal weather?" I'm moving to Southern California in a month -- would the SoCal climate fall under your "normal" rating? Do you have a specific reflash for the lousy 91 octane gas available in California?

Could you please explain the 3/16" mod? I tried searching for relevant threads, but the search engine wasn't willing to co-operate.

Do your reflashes work identically on auto and manual transmissions? I only ask because I have an auto tranny, and I can't imagine that you and your team designed your reflashes on an auto-equipped WRX.

Thanks,

Paul
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Old 08-13-2003, 07:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soon2Bgreat
What would be some of the disadvantages of have the advance multiplier set high like shiv's. Less adaptability in bad weather? If what shiv says is true about the ecu not learning to dial back ignition advance at certain speeds (high rpm when ecu stops listening to knock sensor?) What happens, do you just always have knock there, how does the ecu compensate? Thanks for your time, interesting topic.
My ecutek was tuned by Tuan at GRD, whith i'm very happy with, pulls hard, no cel, very informative aswell, he test drives with you after he's done tuneing connected with the deltadash to ensure that things are running smoothly. Tuan does the same thing as Shiv does, and defaults ig adv to 16. This is the DEFAULT setting. From my understanding it can and will be lowerd if the ECU see's it fit to do so. So there is no problem with driveability in all weather climates.
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Old 08-13-2003, 10:35 PM   #13
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capt.sensible - BIGSKYWRX has a reflash from Ken @ RallyPerf, shoot him a pm. I know he has had his car on a dyno, great results.

Rick B
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Old 08-14-2003, 12:54 AM   #14
capt.sensible
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Thumbs up Thank You

SpinAll4,

Thanks for the tip -- I'll shoot BIGSKYWRX an email. Now if only I could get ahold of someone at Rally Performance to answer the rest of my questions . . . they seem like a great outfit, but they sure have difficulty answering the phone.

PH
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Old 08-14-2003, 12:50 PM   #15
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You are welcome. I also think BIGSKYWRX (Mike), has all the ScoobySport exhaust pieces and Samco hoses too. He's my buddy, but i think he is out of town or something, hasnt replied to my emails lately.

RB
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Old 08-14-2003, 01:38 PM   #16
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I have the full header-back SS exhaust with the dual-tip muffler (rare in the U.S.) - I can tell you that the exhaust is absolutely superb in quality and performance on the stock turbo. It is well suited to take full advantage of an Ecutek or any other tune.

Since I am going to a larger turbo soon - and going to a divorced wastegate down pipe - the whole SS set up will be available used soon....
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Old 08-14-2003, 05:39 PM   #17
capt.sensible
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Default jehcpa . . .

Jehcpa,

I'll be in touch.
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Old 08-15-2003, 03:09 AM   #18
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The RallyPerformance reflash may not be as popular as the Cobb or Vishnu ones, but I'm sure you can't go wrong with it. And since you're going to get all the other SS parts in their stage 2 package it makes sense to get their reflash as well since it was developed with those very parts.

I can say from my past dealing with Ken that he's a man of his word and a very good guy to deal with. Sometimes it takes a few calls to get through to him, but keep trying.

Have you read the SCC article "Spank the STi"? The RallyPerformance car did very well putting up impressive numbers for so few mods and they mentioned it was very refined and had no problems (actually applies to all 3 cars tested.)
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Old 09-12-2003, 10:55 PM   #19
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Stumbled across this thread looking for something else- isn't that always the case

I've got the RallyPerformance stage 2 setup, it was built up piece by piece over a couple of years. The performance is exactly what I wanted. Good low/midrange torque (200 hp @3000 rpms) w/ a very long flat curve (stays above 200 close to 5700). Spool up is very impressive as well- 15psi before 3000 rpms. Boost stays strong w/ a slow steady taper towards redline.

This car is my wife's daily driver, so I had to have something that had oe manners and was reliable. But it also does duty at autox, the track, mountain runs and gravel blasts- this system simply rocks.

I believe Ken's car ran a 13.5 in the 1320' in SCC article, I'm not a drag racer, but that's not too shabby for a grocery getting car.

For someone who wants a real world setup, w/ all the safety/reliability of oe and power where you can really use it- I thinks this fits the bill pretty well.

The sound of the SS- just do a search

Wish I would have stumbled on this earlier.

Big Sky
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Old 09-13-2003, 04:00 PM   #20
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Unhappy BIGSKYWRX

Thanks very much for your response.

I was pretty much all set to buy the SS/RP Stage 2 with reflash, but I recently moved to southern California, and I'm nervous about running with only the third cat (California is really strict about emissions).

Even the SS/RP Stage 1 eliminates both the UP and DP cats, and I don't think I'll pass the smog check with just the third cat in place. It's a real shame, because I've been planning to buy the full SS/RP treatment for my wagon since the day I brought her home.

I'm going to try and talk with Ken at RP about a customized map and/or some way to keep the DP cat in place, but it's not always easy to get in touch with him.

I started looking at the Prodrive Stage 2 as an alternative (it only removes the third cat), but it's clear that Prodrive hasn't worked out the bugs in this package, and I don't feel like beta testing their product for them.

Thanks again, and I'll PM you if it turns out I can swing the SS/RP Stage 2.

Paul
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Old 09-13-2003, 05:13 PM   #21
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You might want to start a thread in the CA regional section and see what folks have done as far as emission testing. It may be the 3rd cat is all you need (maybe not too). It certainly doesn't get as hot as cat #2, that I know for sure.

Ken is hard to get ahold, but he may be able to come up w/ something- maybe even a H&S downpipe w/ a high flow cat- would be worth a try.

I didn't know Prodrive's setup didn't have all the bugs worked out of it- interesting.

Big Sky
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Old 09-15-2003, 11:00 AM   #22
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Default Reflash

I just had this done on Saturday at the Sub Shootout here in PA.

Ken was great he spent alot of time with me getting the reflash just right. What a difference.

I pretty much have the stage 2: Just not Scooby Sport

ss Header
Invidia Downpipe
Bosal Single Tip Cat back
K&N Dropin Filter
Silencer Removed

Ken, Thanks Again!

Rob
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Old 09-15-2003, 02:17 PM   #23
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Smile Rally Performance

Hi Everyone!

Let me introduce myself. I'm Amy and I should be here to answer the phone now if you have any questions or I'll call you back. I know there were problems in the past with getting aholf of someone, but hopefully they're in the past and I can help you.

We are getting ready to move into a large location
and we should be staying up with stock and answering the phone.

Amy
amy@rallyperformance.com
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Old 09-15-2003, 08:42 PM   #24
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Just wanted to trow out a data point with regards to California emissions. I personally know of a 2002 WRX with VF35 turbo, STi injectors, ECUtek tuned by Renick Subaru (local Southern Cal dealer), and MRT turboback exhaust (one hi-flow cat in the downpipe, right after the turbo, almost same location as stock 2nd cat) that passed the California smog test last Saturday. So, it can be done with only one cat.

FYI, the setup is different, but I'm sure that emissions on a stock turbo, stock injectored car would be better.

Aaron
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Old 09-16-2003, 12:05 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by mca
Just wanted to trow out a data point with regards to California emissions. I personally know of a 2002 WRX with VF35 turbo, STi injectors, ECUtek tuned by Renick Subaru (local Southern Cal dealer), and MRT turboback exhaust (one hi-flow cat in the downpipe, right after the turbo, almost same location as stock 2nd cat) that passed the California smog test last Saturday. So, it can be done with only one cat.

FYI, the setup is different, but I'm sure that emissions on a stock turbo, stock injectored car would be better.

Aaron
That's great, thanks for the info! I suspected that one cat should be enough to pass, great news.
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