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Old 08-11-2003, 04:49 PM   #1
big_adventure
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One WheelSeanPower

Default Det with UTEC Stg 2

Hi,

I installed a TXS Stage 2 kit last week. I ran the car for hours, both hard and soft, for a couple of days. I left town for two days and was greeted by det on my return.

I was driving last night and I downshifted from 3rd to 2nd. About 1/2 second to 1 second later, under hard throttle (I don't recall if it was quite WOT, but it was hard), the CEL flashed once around 4300 to 4700 degrees. I did not see another flash.

This morning, I drove to work with my laptop connected and logging from logger #1. The first 15 minutes, including several WOT runs through a couple of gears, were fine. Then, I downshifted 4th to 3rd to pass and accelerated at WOT. On my run up, I saw another flash of the CEL. It seemed to hit right at 4500 RPM, and 1/2 to 1 second after the downshift. I did not see another flash for the rest of the drive.

I checked the log once I got to work, and here is the line with the knock, as well as the previous and next lines:

RPM MAP MAF TPS LOAD Knock AFR Mod Ign
4468 12.9 3.9 97 90 0 13.5 17
4498 14.7 4 97 80 0 13.6 17
4623 14.7 4 97 70 1 14.7 9.4
4585 14.7 4 96 80 0 14.7 9.2

Now, I'm going to have the car tuned this weekend, but until then I'm kind of worried about driving it out of "stock" mode.

EGTs and Boost read fine on my gauges.

Here's my setup:

2004 WRX Wagon
UTEC with unmodified Stg2New map (I'm in CA on 91 octane)
TXS TBE
I have not removed the resonator
The gas in this tank was purchased from a local, non-corporate station.
Temp ~72deg
Hum 70%

I would appreciate any suggestions! Like I said, I'm going to have it tuned by a pro, but I'd love any advice I can get.

Thanks
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Old 08-11-2003, 05:25 PM   #2
QA Guy
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Add some fuel!

You should not see anything but "RICH" for AFR when under heavy load in open loop like you are in the logged info you posted.
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Old 08-11-2003, 05:38 PM   #3
big_adventure
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That's what I thought. Thanks much. Any idea why the base Stg2New map from TXS would be that lean there? Is it a product of the type of acceleration I did? Both det incidents came shortly after a downshift, and I've had numerous WOT runs as far as redline in 4th without seeing other det.
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Old 08-11-2003, 05:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by big_adventure
That's what I thought. Thanks much. Any idea why the base Stg2New map from TXS would be that lean there? Is it a product of the type of acceleration I did? Both det incidents came shortly after a downshift, and I've had numerous WOT runs as far as redline in 4th without seeing other det.
You're welcome.

I don't know why that map would be that lean for you. I'm no tuning expert, though.
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Old 08-11-2003, 05:58 PM   #5
big_adventure
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Well, I used the comment form on the TXS site to submit a question. Last week I tried calling them and e-mailing with different questions, but have not received a response on either yet. Maybe this will work better.

Thanks
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Old 08-11-2003, 06:00 PM   #6
big_adventure
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Additional information: I've had many other WOT and hard runs logged, and, on most of them, the AFR is always "RICH" at high load. I need to go back through them to be more sure. I'll update the thread with more information when I have a chance to check the data.
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Old 08-11-2003, 07:26 PM   #7
QA Guy
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You might try logging with one of the logs that displays the injector duty cycle and see if you are maxing out your injectors. I wouldn't think so, but it's something to check out.
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Old 08-11-2003, 07:29 PM   #8
big_adventure
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Got that, I just didn't include it.

55-56% load on inj #1 throughout the WOT run.

Thanks
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Old 08-11-2003, 07:40 PM   #9
Concillian
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Are you sure you have a Rev 6 board. This thread sounds remarkably similar to the thread a month or two ago where the guy had a 2004 with a Rev 5 board and was ultra lean.

Does your UTEC have a solid one piece cast cover with two holes for the switches? Or is it two pieces, one that you can unscrew to flip the switches?

What is your firmware version?

2.5b?
3.1?
3.1t?


Here is that thread...your case seems too similar. I'd keep the UTEC switch at 0 until you verify your software and board revisions.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=373290
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Old 08-11-2003, 09:42 PM   #10
big_adventure
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It's a solid, one piece cast cover with two cast-in holes for switches. What rev would that be?

The firmware is 3.1, I think, but I'm not in front of it right now. It arrived directly from TXS, ordered through Mach 5, a week ago tomorrow.

I'll run down to the car with my laptop in a minute to check the official firmware ver.

Should I add fuel?

Thanks plus thanks in advance...
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Old 08-11-2003, 11:29 PM   #11
big_adventure
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Well, just to be sure, I calibrated MAP and TPS (the defaults were slightly off), and still got dets.

I have built a "fueled up" map, but am not going to use it yet. I want to talk to TXS. So I'm on stock until then.

I don't know what rev my UTEC is, but the firmware is 3.1. If anyone knows how to tell UTEC revs, 5 from 6, let me know.

This UTEC shipped direct from TXS in the last two weeks.

Thanks in advance, again...
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Old 08-12-2003, 05:15 AM   #12
Concillian
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Sounds like a rev 6 board to me (one piece cover w/holes for the switches)

And 3.1 is the correct software. You're just running VERY lean, which is odd.

If you're getting it tuned this weekend, just wait it out. stay on map 0 (stock ECU), and let someone with a wideband O2 sensor setup your fuel map.

It'll take you longer to troubleshoot than to wait until Saturday. In the meantime, I think you're on the right track in calling TurboXS and seeing what they have to say about seeing 14:1 AFRs on the Stage2new map.

Post up a section of a log when in switch position 0 (logger 1) It would be good to compare MAF voltage and injector duty cycles between the two fuel maps.
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Old 08-12-2003, 09:11 AM   #13
big_adventure
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thanks for the answer on the rev. I'm calling TXS in 5 minutes.

Here's a log of a problem using the stg2new map:

It's CSV, so you ought to be able to copy and paste it to excel.

DATA1

, , , ,Load,Knock, , , , Mod, Mod, , Mod
RPM, MAP, MAF,TPS,Site,Count, AFR, Ign#1, Inj#1, Ign, Fuel,Boost, MAF
, psia, V , % , , , , deg , duty , deg, % ,(OL) , V

4262,+11.5,3.7, 69, 70, 00, rich, +9.6, ---.-,+17.0, +1.1,ECU. ,3.7
4340,+11.9,3.7, 80, 70, 00, rich, +9.0, 68.0,+17.0, +1.1, 70.00,3.8
4397,+12.3,3.8, 84, 70, 00, rich, +8.7, 71.0,+17.0, +1.1, 73.00,3.9
4474,+12.9,3.8, 85, 70, 00, rich, +8.5, 74.0,+17.0, +1.1, 75.00,3.9
4522,+13.1,3.9, 84, 70, 00, rich, +8.2, 76.0,+17.4, +1.1, 74.00,3.9
4591,+13.1,3.9, 61, 70, 00, rich, +9.4, 78.0,+17.8, +1.1, 71.00,3.9
4655,+13.5,3.8, 46, 00, 00, rich,+11.7, 74.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.6
4629, +9.8,2.2, 1, 00, 00, rich,+41.6, 9.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.1
4610, +4.5,2.1, 0, 00, 00, 12.3,+11.0, 7.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.2
4566, -1.2,2.1, 0, 00, 00, 14.7,+11.1, 7.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.1
4547, -7.5,2.1, 0, 00, 00, lean,+10.9, 7.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.1
4468,-10.2,2.1, 0, 00, 00, lean,+11.2, 7.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.0
4432,-10.8,2.0, 0, 00, 00, lean,+11.1, 7.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.0
4480,-10.8,1.9, 0, 00, 00, lean,+11.1, 7.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1.9
4340,-11.2,1.9, 0, 00, 00, lean,+11.1, 7.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1.8
4312,-11.4,1.8, 0, 00, 00, lean,+11.1, 7.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1.8
4312,-11.8,1.7, 0, 00, 00, 24.5,+11.1, 7.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1.7
4357,-10.6,3.0, 33, 00, 00, 23.4,+24.7, 21.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.0
4363, -7.7,3.2, 46, 00, 00, 16.8,+28.0, 29.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.4
4462, -3.4,3.6, 78, 20, 00, 16.2,+12.0, 44.0,+20.5, +0.5, 70.00,3.7
4510, +2.5,3.8, 81, 50, 00, 12.9, +9.7, 50.0,+19.8, +1.1, 71.00,3.9
4432, +7.6,3.8, 82, 70, 00, 13.4, +8.4, 54.0,+17.0, +1.1, 71.00,3.9
4547,+11.3,3.8, 83, 80, 00, 13.5, +9.6, 54.0,+18.0, +1.1, 73.00,3.9
4655,+13.5,3.9, 86, 80, 00, 14.1,+10.6, 55.0,+18.2, +1.1, 75.00,3.9
4714,+14.3,3.9, 87, 80, 00, 13.9,+10.7, 52.0,+18.6, +1.1, 77.00,4.0
4748,+14.3,3.9, 87, 80, 00, 14.5,+11.9, 53.0,+18.8, +0.4, 76.00,3.9
4880,+14.3,4.0, 88, 80, 00, 14.9,+12.0, 55.0,+19.4, +0.9, 78.00,3.9
4844,+14.3,4.0, 88, 80, 00, 14.6,+12.3, 55.0,+20.0, +0.5, 78.00,4.0
4990,+14.3,4.0, 88, 80, 01, 15.0,+12.0, 57.0,+12.8, +0.4, 78.00,4.0
5020,+13.9,4.0, 88, 70, 01, 14.7,+13.9, 57.0,+13.7, +0.3, 78.00,4.0
5020,+13.5,4.0, 89, 70, 00, 14.7,+15.2, 58.0,+14.0, +0.3, 78.00,4.0
5104,+13.9,4.0, 89, 80, 00, 14.5,+14.7, 59.0,+15.0, +0.4, 78.00,4.0
5151,+14.1,4.0, 89, 80, 03, 14.1,+13.4, 58.0,+13.0, +0.4, 78.00,4.0
5299,+14.5,4.0, 89, 80, 00, rich,+13.5, 90.0,+13.0, +0.4, 78.00,4.1
5200,+12.9,2.8, 0, 00, 00, rich,+10.9, 18.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.0
4923, +7.0,2.1, 0, 00, 00, 23.2,+11.1, 18.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.2
4541, +0.6,2.2, 0, 00, 00, lean,+11.1, 18.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.2
4257, -5.5,2.1, 0, 00, 00, lean,+11.3, 18.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.1
3954, -9.6,2.1, 0, 00, 00, lean,+11.1, 18.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.1
3646, -9.6,2.1, 0, 00, 00, lean,+11.3, 18.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.0
3316, -9.8,2.1, 0, 00, 00, lean,+11.5, 18.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.1


Here's a NON-problem with the stg2new map:

2164, +3.1,2.5, 84, 20, 00, 14.4,+26.8, 13.0,+21.5, +0.0, 74.00,2.6
2440, +2.9,2.6, 86, 20, 00, 15.0,+26.4, 15.0,+18.2, +0.0, 76.00,2.7
2624, +2.9,2.8, 86, 20, 00, 14.8,+25.1, 17.0,+17.0, +0.3, 71.00,2.8
2832, +3.1,2.9, 86, 20, 00, 15.1,+23.0, 21.0,+17.0, +1.1, 71.00,2.9
3100, +3.5,3.0, 86, 30, 00, 14.4,+21.5, 24.0,+17.0, +1.5, 71.00,3.1
3404, +4.5,3.1, 86, 30, 00, 14.0,+20.6, 27.0,+17.0, +1.5, 71.00,3.3
3720, +5.9,3.4, 87, 40, 00, 14.8,+16.0, 34.0,+17.2, +1.5, 72.00,3.5
4095, +7.4,3.6, 88, 50, 00, 13.8,+14.4, 41.0,+18.6, +1.3, 78.00,3.6
4541, +9.2,3.8, 88, 60, 00, 15.0,+10.3, 54.0,+17.8, +1.1, 78.00,3.8
4975,+10.8,3.9, 88, 70, 00, rich,+14.2, 77.0,+22.0, +0.3, 78.00,3.9
5385,+11.3,4.0, 88, 70, 00, rich,+18.2, 85.0,+22.0, +0.3, 78.00,4.0
5817,+11.5,4.1, 87, 60, 00, rich,+19.1, 93.0,+22.5, +0.5, 78.00,4.1
6207,+10.8,4.1, 83, 60, 00, rich,+19.5, 97.0,+23.0, +0.7, 76.00,4.1
6410,+10.0,4.0, 31, 00, 00, rich,+38.9, 31.0,ECU. , +0.7,ECU. ,3.0
6082, +5.1,2.0, 0, 00, 00, rich,+10.9, 10.0,ECU. , +0.8,ECU. ,2.1
5747, -0.2,2.1, 0, 00, 00, 22.1,+11.0, 10.0,ECU. , +0.3,ECU. ,2.2
5167, -4.0,3.3, 37, 00, 00, lean,+19.3, 33.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.4
4823, -5.5,3.7, 86, 10, 00, rich,+14.4, 61.0,+22.0, +0.3,ECU. ,3.8
4100, -0.6,3.8, 97, 40, 00, rich, +9.6, 67.0,+18.6, +0.6, 80.00,3.7
4262, +5.7,3.7, 97, 70, 00, rich, +8.4, 70.0,+17.0, +1.3, 80.00,3.8
4426,+11.0,3.8, 97, 80, 00, rich, +9.0, 73.0,+17.0, +1.1, 80.00,3.8
4578,+13.7,3.8, 97, 80, 00, rich,+10.4, 76.0,+18.0, +1.1, 80.00,3.9
4768,+14.9,3.9, 97, 80, 00, rich,+11.1, 81.0,+18.8, +0.5, 80.00,3.9
4975,+15.1,3.9, 97, 80, 00, rich,+13.0, 82.0,+20.2, +0.7, 80.00,3.9
4997,+14.3,4.0, 96, 70, 00, rich,+15.6, 83.0,+22.0, +0.3, 80.00,4.0
5192,+14.3,4.0, 89, 70, 00, rich,+16.6, 85.0,+22.0, +0.3, 80.00,4.0
5291,+13.3,4.0, 65, 70, 00, rich,+17.5, 88.0,+22.0, +0.3, 70.00,4.0
5437,+12.5,3.9, 39, 00, 00, rich,+19.6, 82.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9
5621,+10.8,3.4, 20, 00, 00, rich,+31.9, 45.0,ECU. , +0.2,ECU. ,3.3
5359, +5.7,2.2, 0, 00, 00, rich,+11.0, 11.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.2
5509, +0.0,2.1, 0, 00, 00, rich,+11.2, 10.0,ECU. , +0.4,ECU. ,2.1
5518, -5.9,2.1, 0, 00, 00, 12.4,+10.8, 10.0,ECU. , +0.4,ECU. ,2.1

Here's a non-problem in "stock"

4187, +1.9,3.6, 83, 50, 00, rich, -4.4, 60.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.6
4397, +7.2,3.6, 88, 60, 00, rich, +9.1, 58.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.6
4553, +9.4,3.7, 85, 60, 00, rich, +9.7, 64.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.8
4728,+10.4,3.8, 88, 60, 00, rich,+11.1, 72.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.8
4844,+11.3,3.9, 87, 70, 00, rich,+12.2, 78.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9
5035,+11.5,3.9, 88, 70, 00, rich,+11.5, 84.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,4.0
5151,+12.5,4.0, 86, 70, 00, rich,+13.9, 87.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,4.0
5324,+12.7,4.0, 86, 70, 00, rich,+15.0, 88.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,4.0
5527,+13.1,4.0, 84, 70, 00, rich,+16.1, 89.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,4.0
5717,+13.3,4.0, 80, 80, 00, rich,+16.9, 91.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,4.0
5868,+12.9,4.1, 78, 70, 00, rich,+16.9, 93.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,4.1
5984,+12.7,4.0, 69, 60, 00, rich,+18.1, 93.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,4.0
6138,+11.5,4.0, 59, 00, 00, rich,+19.5, 92.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,4.0
6301,+10.4,4.0, 37, 00, 00, rich,+24.1, 30.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.8
6349, +6.8,2.7, 0, 00, 00, 14.9,+10.6, 12.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.1
6038, +1.3,2.1, 0, 00, 00, rich,+10.9, 11.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.1
5777, -3.6,2.6, 17, 00, 00, 14.1,+16.7, 21.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.3
4591, -5.9,3.6, 62, 10, 00, 13.1,+21.3, 48.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.6
4636, -3.0,3.8, 69, 30, 00, rich,+11.8, 68.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.7
4721, +2.5,3.8, 69, 60, 00, rich,+11.8, 68.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.8
4830, +7.6,3.8, 68, 60, 00, rich,+13.7, 68.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.8
4887,+10.0,3.8, 62, 60, 00, rich,+13.2, 71.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.8
4967,+10.8,3.9, 53, 00, 00, rich,+13.6, 75.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9
5035,+11.3,3.9, 51, 00, 00, rich,+15.6, 76.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9
5120,+11.7,3.9, 52, 00, 00, rich,+17.1, 72.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.8
5200,+11.3,3.8, 53, 00, 00, rich,+16.2, 70.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.8
5265,+10.6,3.8, 53, 00, 00, rich,+16.0, 68.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.8
5324,+10.0,3.8, 54, 00, 00, rich,+16.4, 70.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.8
5367, +9.6,3.8, 52, 00, 00, rich,+16.4, 72.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9
5420, +9.6,3.9, 50, 00, 00, rich,+16.7, 73.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9
5500, +9.2,3.9, 51, 00, 00, rich,+16.8, 74.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9
5546, +9.0,3.9, 51, 00, 00, rich,+16.3, 73.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9
5621, +8.6,3.9, 51, 00, 00, rich,+16.8, 73.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.8
5698, +8.4,3.9, 50, 00, 00, rich,+17.4, 73.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9
5668, +8.4,3.9, 49, 00, 00, rich,+17.7, 72.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9
5797, +8.8,3.9, 47, 00, 00, rich,+18.5, 73.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9
5817, +8.6,3.9, 45, 00, 00, rich,+18.7, 72.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9
5858, +8.2,3.6, 24, 00, 00, rich,+32.3, 28.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.2
6184, +4.1,2.2, 0, 00, 00, rich,+10.7, 12.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.2
5767, -1.4,2.1, 0, 00, 00, rich,+10.8, 11.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.1
5473, -6.1,2.2, 0, 00, 00, lean,+12.9, 13.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,2.6
5455, -8.9,3.3, 36, 00, 00, 18.4, +4.5, 39.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.5
5144, -6.3,3.8, 40, 00, 00, rich,+16.1, 63.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,3.9

All of this data was captured in one logging session. After the problem, I pulled off the highway and switched maps using the remote switch.

Thanks!
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Old 08-12-2003, 04:00 PM   #14
big_adventure
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The first response from Phil at TXS was to the first message I sent to them on Monday morning. I'd only seen the det twice at that point. Phil recommends retarding timing in a limited engine range (4250-4750) and for loads 60-70 and maybe 80. Unfortunately I've now seen dets between 4K and 5100, so I think there is more to do here. I've not actually spoken to them at TXS yet, and, as stated, Phil was just responding to the first message I'd sent. I've e-mailed him back with my threads here and some other information.

-Sean
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Old 08-13-2003, 11:00 AM   #15
big_adventure
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Anything else posted here will be at the other thread I started in Factory forced Induction.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...92#post4415492
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