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Old 08-13-2003, 09:37 AM   #1
Will98RS
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Default law re:suby engine into old vw

hey all, im not sure this fits in this forum exactly but here goes.

im planning a project of swapping a subaru (or maybe a rotary) engine into a karmann ghia. my question is does any one know the laws that apply to this type of thing? i live in new york state. do i have to worry about emissions? is it going to be a problem registering/ inspecting it?

thanks

will
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Old 08-13-2003, 09:54 AM   #2
rvanbran
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I don't think it is illegal, unless you are in Cali where the rules are superstrict.
You might want to check your legal smog laws though.

How far along are you ? I'm in the planning stages for putting an EJ25 in my 1970 Beetle.

Check out http://shoptalkforums.com in the 'conversion perversion' section, there is a lot of info there.

Rob.
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Old 08-13-2003, 10:46 AM   #3
Will98RS
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im also in the planning or maybe pre planning stage. i have a karmann ghia which was my grandmothers but i think it might be a bit too nice to start chopping up. im planning to make a wide body with scoops in front of the rear wheels for the radiator (and maybe intercooler )

will

sorry about the banana
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Old 08-13-2003, 10:53 AM   #4
tbd
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even here in cal, its ok so long as you retain emissions gear, and use motor from same year or newer.
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Old 08-13-2003, 10:56 AM   #5
Will98RS
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well im going to be putting an engine from the mid/late 90s or later in to a car from the 60s or early 70s. also i cant retain the emissions gear (or it would be very hard as the engine will be in the back)

any new yorkers done engine swaps?
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Old 08-13-2003, 11:46 AM   #6
tbd
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if you were here, pre 73' cars are smog test exempt. you could put a jet engine, or a steam locomotive in there & it would pass.
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Old 08-13-2003, 11:48 AM   #7
Will98RS
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thats kinda what i thought about ny too. if its more that 30 years old you can do whatever you want. that would be awsome i can see fire shooting out of the exhaust already.

will
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Old 08-13-2003, 09:08 PM   #8
ciper
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Not illegal in any state, as long as emissions items are retained.

Read this site thoroughly http://www.smallcar.com/convert.htm
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Old 08-15-2003, 07:46 AM   #9
AKGC8
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I'm to lazy to look this up, but IIRC besides needing to be from the same year or newer, the engine also has to be from the same manufacturer and same class of vehicle(meaning no truck engines into cars). So technically a Subaru to VW swap would be illegal, and that's federal law so all states. Now being a 1960's vehicle that had no emission equipment it is exempt from testing as stock. Though with an engine swap it technically is supposed to meet the requirements for the engine that goes in. Now I say "technically" because the vehicle as stock is exempt. So, if you don't tell anyone about the new engine chances are nobody will ever find out.
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Old 08-17-2003, 03:26 AM   #10
stever
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AFAIK it doesn't matter if the engine is from the same manufacturer. The classic example is a Cobra kit car. Since it's a kit, the emissions go by the engine year those guys try to find old (pre-69) blocks so they can be exempt. I don't think it matters if it's a truck motor though because a lot of guys use truck blocks because they're stronger. Of course those are all dinosaur pushrod motors and the truck motors are nearly identical to the car ones.

As far as I know, Cali., Mass. and NY have the same emissions now. I bought my '99 RS in NY and it said that it had California/Mass/NY emissions.

Also, it doesn't matter how old the car is. If you install an engine built after '69, it's gotta have emissions ... legally.

-Steve

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Old 08-17-2003, 09:59 PM   #11
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I remeber running into this crap when I did a swap in my 65 chevelle. IIRC the rule was much like what people have said above about same year or newer, but I also remember that there is a size limit as well. It might only be that you can't switch from a 4 cyl to 6cyl or 6 to 8 something like that and not the displacement. So actually you should be ok because both are 4 cyl. The best thing you could do would be to just call the lincens office and ask what the rules are.
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Old 08-17-2003, 10:58 PM   #12
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Well the kit car guys can put whatever they want in because the chassis was never registered and certified by a manufacturer with the government. So they just go off of whatever engine gets put in.

The no truck motors into cars is because trucks have less stringent emission requirements than cars. Basically the engine that is going to be put in has to meet the same regulations or better than the engine that came out. Again the kit car guys could probably get around this because the car was never registered with the government as a car or a truck(even if it is obviously a car).

Those two items I'm fairly certain about. It's the same manufacturer rule that I can't remember for sure about, but I think that is a rule too.

Last edited by AKGC8; 08-17-2003 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 08-17-2003, 11:12 PM   #13
AKGC8
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Okay I decided to look it up. It doesn't have to be from the same manufacturer, but it does have to be from the same class(no trucks in cars).


http://www.epa.gov/enforcement/resou.../engswitch.pdf
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Old 08-18-2003, 12:41 AM   #14
stever
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That's nearly the same link that I posted in the JDM V7 engine swap. I think the EPA's definition of light duty includes things like pick-ups, etc. so you could take a pick-up or van motor and swap it in a car but you couldn't take one from an 18 wheeler (ie. heavy duty) and stick it in, although I'm not sure why you'd want to do it anyway. That's what I meant by a truck motor ... basically the pick-up/van motors.

And yeah, you're right, you can basically put any year motor in a kit car and the emissions go by that. I have a Lancia Stratos kit car that uses a 3.0L Alfa Romeo V-6 and I went through all of this in NY and California. They both require that all emissions controls be intact including evaporative emissions for the fuel tank, etc. I'm still not sure how I'm going to get the exhaust to pass since there's no way I can fit the stock exhaust from a FWD four door sedan in a 2 seat mid-engined death machine. I guess I'll find out when I finish it.

-Steve

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