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Old 08-14-2003, 12:49 PM   #1
heffergm
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Default Prodrive Power Packs

Anyone running them (any stage)? I'm curious to hear your impressions. It seems people have been waiting for them for quite a while, and they've finally made their appearance. The price isn't too bad, all things considered.
I'm debating a Prodrive stage 0 or 1 (the only difference being the midpipe in the stage 1, which I don't understand) or a Cobb Stage 1.
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Old 08-14-2003, 01:05 PM   #2
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actaully the price stinks for what you get

comparitivly (espically if you are compairing it to a cobb reflash)

wr sport axel back ~400
intercooler hoses ~120
cobb reflash 400

-->920

vs 1150 for the stage 1

stage 2 adds a 3rd cat remover for 1270
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Old 08-14-2003, 01:10 PM   #3
heffergm
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Right, so I'm operating under the assumption that Prodrive is charging about $600 for their reflash, versus the $400 that Cobb charges. Like I said, not bad, if you consider that Prodrive has a lot more history in the business.
Which isn't to say that their reflash is better or worse... I have no idea, which is why I asked the question in the first place.
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Old 08-14-2003, 01:19 PM   #4
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Better read this thread..................


http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=381011
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Old 08-14-2003, 01:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Barry
Better read this thread..................


http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=381011
Yeah, good reading. Although it should be pointed out, I don't know how many people have done such rigorous testing on their own Stage 0 or Stage 1 reflash from Cobb or Vishnu. Almost every review I have read about Cobb reflash has been seat-of-the-pants. Those guys in the thread also felt obvious seat-of-the-pants improvements from their Prodrive reflash, but now comes the data....
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Old 08-14-2003, 01:37 PM   #6
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Also, remember that in Prodrive terminology, Stage 1 is the reflash (plus muffler and intercooler hose) and Stage 2 adds the third cat eliminator pipe. Prodrive has no "Stage 0".
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Old 08-14-2003, 01:43 PM   #7
heffergm
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Understood. The thread mentioned above was useful.
My concern with the prodrive stuff is that they haven't yet published any dyno results.
Although most people using the Cobb stuff have been reporting via seat of the pants, they've at least published dyno's for all their stages.
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Old 08-14-2003, 01:54 PM   #8
Orson
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Quote:
Originally posted by heffergm
... Like I said, not bad, if you consider that Prodrive has a lot more history in the business....
Yes, that's my thinking, too. I am a Prodrive fan as well. But put this in perspective.

Yes, they sold kits under warranty in UK. I am willing to bet that they got at least a little help from the factory in tuning the Power Pack. It would be silly to think Subaru UK didn't relay some sort of factory help from the home offices in Japan. Don't underestimate the complexity of modern engine ECU's. If you can't describe what a Kalman filter is, design a basic neural network neuron, or create a fuzzy logic rule set, you aren't even close to qualified to *fully* understanding a modern engine ECU. I know I am not. Having factory help is HUGE.

That said, they are using ECU-Tek for reflash. You'd think that with really serious factory assistance, they wouldn't need a third party like ECU-Tek. At worse, they may have gotten no factory assistance and may have no more experience than tuners like Cobb.

Also, I seriously doubt that they have done durability testing with their Power Pack any more than other tuners. They may have driven around a couple of vehicles for a few throusand miles, but OEM reliability is measured by hundreds of thousands of miles of testing. Even if you assume there was a $500 profit per Power Pack sold, a limited run of 300 vehicles (as is the case with the UK300 vehicle) nets only $150,000 - that's barely enough to run one car through a proper manufacturer's durability cycle.

I think UK warranties it because the Power Pack is not sold in that big a volume and they figure they can cover the cost of additional warranty claims through the profits they generate.

Just putting things in perspective. In the end, I think I'm still in for a PPP1!

Also, if you want to see dyno results for Stage 2 or 3, look here (there's also a post from Simon Lines of Prodrive):
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&pagenumber=14

or in the aforementioned link:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=381011
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