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Old 08-16-2003, 02:53 AM   #1
Ghostrider600
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Default STI Kill Switch Type Master Key??

(I did a search but didn't find this...)

The place I'm getting my STi from has it's pricing list online, and one of the items is:
"STI Kill Switch Type Master Key".

This is the first I've ever heard of this, none of the literature makes mention of it.

I assume this is similar to GM's PassKeyII?
(metal impedence chip in key itself) Or is it like an E-key with a chip and code scrambler?

Anyone know?


It's like halfway down the page.

http://www.vanbortelsubaru.com/impp6.html


EDIT:
Lol, here's what Subaru says about it:

"The STi kill switch-type master key and new instrument panel emphasize vehicle's performance potential. When the key is turned to start the car, all the gauge needles swing to their maximum positions, then fall back to normal. "

Um...great...how is that a kill switch?
http://www.subaru-global.com/topics/...03/0501_6.html
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Old 08-16-2003, 03:08 AM   #2
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It's not actually a kill switch. It is just designed after the kill switch that's in the WRC car:



Again...it is NOT an engine kill.
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Old 08-16-2003, 03:05 PM   #3
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Ya I saw that too,then it dawned on me are keys (2) that come with sti has one that represents a Kill switch key on race cars.There on the outside so in event of fire
etc,the pit crew can shut it down or emergency workers.We got one with the purchase,A little big for the front pocket
also makes nice scratches if not careful
inside and out.MATT
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Old 08-16-2003, 03:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neek
It's not actually a kill switch. It is just designed after the kill switch that's in the WRC car:



Again...it is NOT an engine kill.
Crap.

Thanks guys.

I was hoping it was an actual engine immobilizer key.

You know, I find it stunning that a $30k car that is likely to be on the Thief's Most Wanted list (how many WRX owners would love a piece of your STi?) does NOT come with some kind of security key that's even found on lowly run-of-the-mill cars like the Honda Civic...
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Old 08-16-2003, 11:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghostrider600


Crap.

Thanks guys.

I was hoping it was an actual engine immobilizer key.

You know, I find it stunning that a $30k car that is likely to be on the Thief's Most Wanted list (how many WRX owners would love a piece of your STi?) does NOT come with some kind of security key that's even found on lowly run-of-the-mill cars like the Honda Civic...
Ghostrider,

You know most often the best things in life are idiosyncratic or have gotcha's attached. For example:

Arnold Schwarzennegger -> Big, strong & lots of fame -> Been in America over 30 years and starred in countless popular movies yet still he sounds like an immigrant fresh off the plane from Austria. But hey he's rich and married to a Kennedy!

Dodge Viper -> Big, strong & lots of fame -> A/C is ineffective if it works at all and on earlier models folks burned their legs on the mufflers upon exit. All models are infamously known by owners for their shoddy build quality. But hey their cool and girls like them!

Hottest looking babe on the planet - > Great to look at, even better to have on your arm, awesome in bed -> Costs a lot to keep around, often complains about everything & nothing at all, her friends hate you, her family thinks you're below her, you're friends think you're below her, you think you're below her.
But hey you're the most talked about man on earth, whether it be good or bad talk!?

Basically my point is nothings ever perfect and that life's a bitch.
Yeah okay so the STi doesn't come with an alarm, radio, floor mats, sunroof, leather seating surfaces, more than one interior color combinations, Recaro seats, NAV, or Natasha Henstridge as standard equipment. So the heck what?

If you want all that in a stock pacakage then the $56K M3 or the less quick/less fast but more 'Queer Eye for The Straight Guy' compliant $32K Infiniti G35 Coupe 6MT may be more suited to your tastes.

If what you really desire is essentially a street legal race car with class leading bleeding edge real & usable racing to street technology, Tonka tough durability, dependable as the sun rising everyday reliability, FedEx style quickness, Hotwheels toy car fun, with the speed of the Batmobile, as many standard race derived features as a Porsche GT2, with nearly the same speed & handling and four season AWD/4WD reliability of 'Billy Goat Gruff', as much street cred, respect & homage as a Hayabusa or Porsche 'Turbo', all wrapped up in the worlds best & most safely constructed compact sedan design in its class as assesed by both IIHS and NHTSA that comfortably seats four or 3 + 1 car seat that has a real & usable trunk to stow your tools/coats/groceries all with a price out the door of $31,500 MSRP!!!

Come on man...please.

If you really need an alarm to go 'bee-boop' every time you hit the orange & blue buttons on your remote, your dealer would be more than happy to install one in your car for just a nominal upcharge. Another option is to swing by the guys at Best Buy or Circuit City as they can consult with you on all matter of money wastage, wattage, thump in the trunk big bass boomage and which model Viper (tm) alarm is best to help you maintain the _illusion_ that your STi will remain safe in your driveway.

Personally I'm glad Subaru had the foresight to give us buyers the _choice_ to forgo the non essential & non-performance related/enhancing fat that typically comes 'standard' on other cars such as POS radios, speakers, alarm equipment and all the heavy wiring that goes with it.

BTW, the alarm system that's available from most manufacturers whether it be the Subaru unit or that of the "lowly" Honda Civic are of no concern to the bad guys and really do nothing more than fake out owners into thinking their car & possesions therein are safe. You are practically as well off without the OEM alarm as you would be with one installed.

Cars are stolen every hour of every day in every county of every city in every country and they all aren't '78 Firebirds or '88 Mustangs with no factory alarm system.
The cars on the Most Wanted List are regular everyday cars. Teh kind you find in every third slot at the mall or your work parking lot. They are Civics, Tauruses, and GM SUV's amongst other common everyday products. The STi even if some of its parts can be installed on WRX's (which is a niche market vehicle itself) will not become some kind of hot theft commodity. There is basically no money in it. It's money that drives the criminal element as it does everything else in the world.

- Janq

"For a small piece of paper it carries a lot of weight. Call it lean, mean, mean green. Almighty dollar" - The O'Jays, 'For The Love Of Money'
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Old 08-17-2003, 12:03 AM   #6
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Bit over dramatic, eh Janq?

A pass-key type immobilizer is a proven theft deterrent, b/c it's a pain for a thief to bypass.
True, they can do it, in time, but time is their enemy.

Now, did I ask for a stereo or any of the rest of the crap you mention? No.

I just wanted some form of anti-theft that's not an annoying Viper alarm b/c nowadays NO ONE pays attention to car alarms, period.

An immboliizer does not go "bee-boop", it sends a coded impulse to a computer that either unlocks or disengages the starter depending on if the signal is the right one or not, it's perfectly silent.

And as far as cost goes-- it's a $70 option on any Jeep product, and standard on the $16,000 Civic.

So don't cry me SoA's poverty.

And don't give me that "it saves weight" line either, the power window motors (necessary in any race vehicle) in the STi outweigh (by several POUNDS) the few OUNCES an immobilizer system weighs.

Oh, and power windows do NOT give an insurance reduction of 20% which a passive immobilizer system does.

And what good is all the performance in the world when it's stolen and stripped or wrapped around a tree?


I asked about an immobilizer and you give the uber-fanboi line and defend SoA's cheaping-out as some kind of Freedom of Choice and amazing benefit to mankind and STi owners everywhere..



Your reaction is SO over the top it's funny.

In your own words:

Quote:
Come on man...please.
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Old 08-17-2003, 12:10 AM   #7
Janq
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghostrider600
Bit over dramatic, eh Janq?

Your reaction is SO over the top it's funny.

In your own words:

Then you got my point.

</sarchasm>
Seriously though lots of folks have commented on the lack of alarm (as well as radio, speakers, Recaro's, etc.).
Yes it would be cool if the alarm specifically came with the car stock but its no big deal available as a DIO.

The cost of entry toward this car is for its mechanical bites & pieces and overall driving ability. The alarm & other stuff missing were not germane to the STi's purpose/mission.

BTW, immobilizer technology costs money that might/probably would have bumped the as shipped costs over the threshold Subaru wanted to stay under. Though my Honda Pilot for which I paid $31K has this technology too.
<sarchasm>

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Old 08-17-2003, 01:04 AM   #8
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immobilizer technology doesn't cost much at all, less than $50 IIRC. it's standard even on something as pedestrian as a Focus. it's a key, a module & a sensor ring around the ignition to pick up the signal from the key.

I'd suspect that any incremental cost it would put into the purchase price would be more than outweighed by the reduction in insurance premiums. in most cases short of replacing the entire ECU or flat-bedding the car away, immobilizers work quite well AFAIK.




Ben
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Old 08-17-2003, 01:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by m ben
immobilizer technology doesn't cost much at all, less than $50 IIRC. it's standard even on something as pedestrian as a Focus. it's a key, a module & a sensor ring around the ignition to pick up the signal from the key.

I'd suspect that any incremental cost it would put into the purchase price would be more than outweighed by the reduction in insurance premiums. in most cases short of replacing the entire ECU or flat-bedding the car away, immobilizers work quite well AFAIK.

Ben
I know how the immobilzer systems work in general (different manufacturers have different schemes). Nor do I doubt there maybe some percentage reduction in insurance cost (say 5-10%).

But costs are costs.
How much the eqipment costs with economies of scale per unit is not known to me so I won't speak to it. But I do know that integrating said technology into the car isn't just as simple as doing it (i.e. plug & pray). R&D toward that feature set and facilitating its install requires money.

Someone should e-mail Subaru and ask them about why such a technology is not on _any_ of their cars, not just the STi.
As for it being an effective technology or not that can be argued. Every system can be gotten around as any stolen Vette owner might tell you the (first car to use this technology introduced by GM back in '89).

Yeha okay its on the Focus et al, thats great.
So are floor mats and a radio with speakers.

You local dealer would be more than happy to upfit/retrofit your STi to add any manner of anti-theft equipment you might require/desire.

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Old 08-17-2003, 03:40 PM   #10
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Subaru's don't exactly have high theft rate. You would think the WRX would be high on the list of stolen car but it's not at all. The STi won't be high on the list simply because there isn't a high black market demand for the parts. This is a completely diffrent story in other markets.
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Old 08-17-2003, 06:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghostrider600


Crap.

Thanks guys.

I was hoping it was an actual engine immobilizer key.

You know, I find it stunning that a $30k car that is likely to be on the Thief's Most Wanted list (how many WRX owners would love a piece of your STi?) does NOT come with some kind of security key that's even found on lowly run-of-the-mill cars like the Honda Civic...
you would prefer that, My family owns a hardware store, we transponder keys and program them. Every single person that comes in is pissed because they were unaware of it before they bought the car, and they come to us because we sell them for 25 bucks programed. Where as most ford dealers charge 70 for the key and 70 to program it, I think honda only charges 40 or so. But, this has proven to stop some thieves from stealing cars, but has it stopped car theft, or even put a significant dent it car theft? Are hondas still being stolen off of every block? even though they are equiped with a transponder?
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Old 08-17-2003, 11:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by lstepnio
Subaru's don't exactly have high theft rate. You would think the WRX would be high on the list of stolen car but it's not at all. The STi won't be high on the list simply because there isn't a high black market demand for the parts. This is a completely diffrent story in other markets.
Thats partly because there just aren't a lot of WRX's or Subaru's for that matter on the road as relative to Toyota (Camry), Honda (Accord & Civic), Ford (Tuarus) and GM products.

The auto thieves IRL unlike the Hollywood hype portrayed in tv & movies such as 'Gone in 60 Seconds' are most interested in making money with a minimum of risk.
Its very easy to turn around relatively generic and commonly needed high volume vehicles (parts!) rather than niche (WRX & STi) and/or relatively low volume (Legacy & Forester) product.

Now of course their is the sub element of criminals that are mostly teens who jack cars (directly or indirectly) just for the fleeting fun & fancy of a 'joy ride' and then dump the vehicles (best case scenario) or burn them (worst case scenario) when their done.

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Old 08-18-2003, 01:41 AM   #13
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If you want something that is more foolproof, I'd say screw the whole immobilizer key idea and go with a mechanical security device like a concealed mechanical fuel cut off switch with the added security of a dummy switch or several dummy switches. Granted, theres always a chance that the thief may find the "lucky switch" but then again I never said it was 100% FOOLPROOF. I don't know about you guys, but I dont care how reliable a computer is at disengaging the starter, thieves(well, smart ones) will always find a way to find a hot lead and tap into what's necessary to get the car going. When you cut off the fuel(assuming that the switch is totally concealed and never found), the bad guys are going to be frustrated as to why the hot wired STi will crank but won't run....

thats just me though.... my $.02.

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Old 08-18-2003, 01:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by STiLL WILL
If you want something that is more foolproof, I'd say screw the whole immobilizer key idea and go with a mechanical security device like a concealed mechanical fuel cut off switch with the added security of a dummy switch or several dummy switches. Granted, theres always a chance that the thief may find the "lucky switch" but then again I never said it was 100% FOOLPROOF. I don't know about you guys, but I dont care how reliable a computer is at disengaging the starter, thieves(well, smart ones) will always find a way to find a hot lead and tap into what's necessary to get the car going. When you cut off the fuel(assuming that the switch is totally concealed and never found), the bad guys are going to be frustrated as to why the hot wired STi will crank but won't run....

thats just me though.... my $.02.

-STiLL
I agree any my point exactly, assuming the theif has any interest in the car. A petty/common thief with no real skills or affiliation might only walk with the wheels & brakes skipping past the car overall.

If one wanted the entire car they would just take the entire car via flatbed or drag behind tow truck and throw the car on dollies. Don't think for a minute such things don't happen. The immobilizer won't do you jack in this scenario. As I stated before alarms are more for the gratification of the owner than disuading the thief. Just like peepholes, door chains and dogs. Not to say having an alarm/security system is pointless, but it ain't a magical 'thief proof' solution as many folks believe. Just ask a New York City native.

Personally I like concealed dummy switches and intend to rig up something similar (accelerator pedal) on my own car tertiary to an alarm system and a lifetime of street sense.

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Old 08-20-2003, 08:30 AM   #15
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*almost* on topic, has anyone found a place to get the STi key cut?? My girlfriend bought a key blank and we took it to the dealer to have it cut, but they wouldn't do it because the key is made of steel and they didn't think their machine would do the job. So she took it to a locksmith and he gave her the same answer.

I am going to have my dealer look into this, but I was wondering if anyone out there had any more real information.
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Old 08-20-2003, 01:21 PM   #16
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Earlier posts on this item indicated that Home Depot would do it and folks had good luck there.

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Old 08-20-2003, 03:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Every system can be gotten around as any stolen Vette owner might tell you the (first car to use this technology introduced by GM back in '89)
Actually, the VATS system used in the Corvette was introduced in 1986. It wasen't very good and shouldn't even be compared to the current PK3 or PK3+ system... which was introduced in 1997 (PK3).

Immobilizers have no "hot wire" to jumper. If you don't get a two-way low-frequency communication between the transponder and vehicle, you don't have fuel (some PK3 platforms will cut crank, some don't... but all control fuel). Cars don't start without fuel. Unless you think you can duplicate a rolling two-way communication or have a half hour to spare, you're not driving the car away.

MrHorspwer <----GM Service Engineer - Vehicle Theft Deterrent

Last edited by MrHorspwer; 08-20-2003 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 08-20-2003, 03:38 PM   #18
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the Accord immobilizer system seems to work pretty well... brought the 6th gen accords to 54th most stolen... down from a high of #2 (behind camry) in previous generations...
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Old 08-21-2003, 12:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by filbert
the Accord immobilizer system seems to work pretty well... brought the 6th gen accords to 54th most stolen... down from a high of #2 (behind camry) in previous generations...
Yeah, guess Subaru needs more STis stolen first to justify the cost later.

Quote:
MrHorspwer <----GM Service Engineer - Vehicle Theft Deterrent
So, to answer some earlier comments about the lack of such a system in the STI, just out of curiousity, how much does the system weigh, and how much (approximately) does it cost the manufacturer?
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Old 08-21-2003, 07:45 AM   #20
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As far as weight... a couple ounces. The module is about 1/4 the size of a pack of smokes. There is really no additional wiring with the exception of power and ground to the module... everything in the system is communicated via the vehicles data line (whatever it may be... GM's was Class 2 data and is now going to a LAN based system) and it is software driven.

Cost is a bit of a factor. If using GM's system, the key needs a transponder. That's probibly the most expensive portion (as if the STi keys aren't expensive enough). The module in the vehicle isn't very complicated or substantial. The rest is software... if your exsisting modules can support it. If not... well, they need to. I would say less than $50 per vehicle... which may as well be a million to an automaker.

My best guess as to why no Subaru has an immobilizer is cost. Technology costs money. Subaru isn't the largest or most finacially-set . I am almost positive none of Subaru's current controllers can support this type of system... that's where the big dollars come in. I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if the new Legacy has an immobilizer system, with the technology trickiling down to the Forester and Impreza during future updates.
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Old 08-21-2003, 11:48 AM   #21
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Exclamation There is no such thing as theft proof...

Via ABCNews.com;

"...According to the report, the Escalade averaged 10.3 theft claims per 1,000 insured vehicles, while the Dodge Stratus averaged 8.7 claims. The average number of claims for all vehicles was 2.6.

The Escalade also had the highest average theft losses, with an average loss payment of $167 per insured vehicle, the report said. The Chevrolet Corvette convertible had the second-highest loss payment rate at $75. The average for all cars was $15.

Cadillac spokesman Kerry Christopher said he does not know why the Escalade has such a high theft rate, noting that the vehicle's horn goes off to deter thieves and it has an immobilizer device so it cannot be started without a key.

The Escalade also has had standard On-Star navigation since it debuted in 1999. That system makes it easier to recover vehicles after they are stolen, Christopher said.

Jeff Johnson, the controller at Don Massey Cadillac in Lone Tree, Colo., said seven Escalades were stolen from his lot last November as part of a gang initiation.

"They grabbed all the keys labeled 'Escalade,'" Johnson said. He said all seven vehicles were recovered because General Motors Corp. tracked their locations using the On-Star navigation...."

As part of today's 'cover page' at ABCNews.com, the link to the full story is below; http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030821_117.html

As I noted before immobilizers and various other technologies are nice, but it is no guarantee. If your car is desired it will get got.

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Old 08-21-2003, 12:13 PM   #22
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There was a pretty nifty anti-theft device on a James Bond car... I think Q told him taht it was guaranteed to stop theft... then later when James Bond and some girl went to the car they saw some thief trying to break in and the whole thing blew up!
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Old 08-21-2003, 12:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by filbert
There was a pretty nifty anti-theft device on a James Bond car... I think Q told him taht it was guaranteed to stop theft... then later when James Bond and some girl went to the car they saw some thief trying to break in and the whole thing blew up!
Yeah, I remember that one.
Guaranteed not to fail.

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