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Old 08-16-2003, 10:50 PM   #1
Zoso
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Question Question for those who have had extensive track time with the STi

If you've had extensive track time with the STi please comment on the following:


1) What DCCD settings did you use?

2) Which one was the best and why?

3) Please justify your decision, on your vote for the best setting, by posting your observations on the behavior of the car in AUTO vs. OPEN vs. the settings between OPEN and LOCK?


When refering to a DCCD setting in between LOCK and OPEN we should standardize the reply, something to the effect of

LOCK
Red Triangle 1
RT 2
RT 3
Green Triangle
OPEN

This way there won't be any confusion. For example: if you just say the "2nd triangle" would this mean counting from OPEN or LOCK? This way we could all know exactly to what setting we are talking about. So if you want to comment on the 2nd triangle from lock you would just need to say "when cornering on RT2 this was the result...." or if your at the first triangle above OPEN: "when cornering on GT this was the result....."

So:

LOCK
RT1
RT2
RT3
GT
OPEN


I think this information would be useful as part of a DCCD FAQ or sticky thread.
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Last edited by Zoso; 08-17-2003 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 08-18-2003, 11:13 PM   #2
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Ok I guess I'm going to have to open this up to those who haven't tracked their cars yet either. Can someone out there answer this question?????
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Old 08-19-2003, 07:05 AM   #3
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disclaimer: i have NOT had extensive time at the track in my STi, but here are things i have noticed from onramp to onramp .

OPEN- fun for getting the tail out, esp in slower speed situations.
RED T1- seems to push out a lot in corners. understeers.
AUTO- mash the gas and let the front lsd pull you out of any situation. most effective IMHO.

i havent messed with any of the other settings, as i didnt really think it was necessary. LOCK (i think) should only be used in inclimate weather (snow). the AUTO setting does take some time to get used to, and to train your brain to mash the gas at such high speeds, but once you get used to it, i believe its the fastest around the track. but yeah, OPEN = fun, for the most part

be safe.
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Old 08-20-2003, 09:46 AM   #4
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I think someone posted in another thread that RT3 gave the least understeer and more predictable handling than AUTO. I want to take the car to a track and do some experimenting with this, but the next open date at the local tracks isn't until November 8th
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Old 08-20-2003, 10:46 AM   #5
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Auto all the way for me. I like the vaiabilty that it gives. I know the ECU can decide what distribution much faster than I can reach down and adjust.

If I was on gravel or snow I would go with lock.
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Old 08-20-2003, 02:07 PM   #6
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Just FYI - the amount/% lock between 0% and 100% is infinitely variable - there are more than just six positions total.
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Old 08-20-2003, 02:17 PM   #7
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huh? manually?
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Old 08-20-2003, 05:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by happasaiyan
huh? manually?
Yes. The control dial is just a rheostat.
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Old 08-20-2003, 09:12 PM   #9
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Auto is a misnomer. Its more like "random" or "abrubtly bad". It starts to lock up way too soon, doesn't lock enough when it really hits the fan, will shut too much power to the front when you don't want it to, etc.

if you are driving the car hard NEVER leave it in auto. Leave it in a setting so that the car will react the same way every time, and you can learn it.
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Old 08-21-2003, 12:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Austin
Yes. The control dial is just a rheostat.
Hmmm... the dial only has detents at the full lock and full open positions. In between, it's a rheostat. However, it's hard to tell where you are between 2 indications.

Russ
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Old 08-21-2003, 02:53 AM   #11
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I feel I still need more time experimenting with different settings. Unfortunately, all our autocross test and tune days have been cancelled since I got the car, and I've been too busy trying to learn how to properly drive the thing anyway (I never drove a WRX nor anything with over 140hp nor anything with such slow steering). From my experiments at the last autocrosses (dry pavement, maybe 80 degree weather, grip was not great but not really bad):

auto: good overall, and usually my fastest times.

open: nothing special. Didn't see any point to this.

GT, right above open: a bit more grip coming out of corners, you can feel the front pulling more.

GT, right below RT3: quite a bit different feel. You can feel the car pulling more out of corners. However, the feel of the car is also different trying to do more subtle maneuvers (offset gates, for example), and I think I like auto better right now.

RT3, middle to high value: Ouch. I didn't like this one bit. Horrible noises from the differential under hard braking. Didn't feel any better coming out of the corners than lower settings. Felt like the diff was fighting me.


So I've decided that in these conditions I ought to play around with auto vs. high GT (maybe low RT3). Unfortunately I am not consistent enough with my driving to make scientific experiments, unless I can get another 30+ run test and tune day. I'm going to a hill climb next weekend, but I don't think that would be the best place to experiment with changing the car behavior on each run -- I should pick one setting and stick with it (barring any possible rain changes).

Too bad we can't get one or more good consistent drivers (e.g. former national champions and/or Evo school instructors) to do runs at each logical setting. Listen to their comments as well as look at times (ideally segment times).
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Old 08-21-2003, 10:13 AM   #12
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I agree with XT6,

After autocrossing in the rain i found the auto mode to be very unpredictable and annoying. I liked the orange light just above the green one the best. It felt the same every time I got on the throttle and seemed to be very balanced in the wet weather.
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Old 08-21-2003, 12:36 PM   #13
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I have had the STI on the track twice now, and I like to leave it in the Open setting. I felt the car did not push as much and it was easier to control with the throttle in the corners. I could also get the rear to step out a bit if needed by using the gas. I was running 42 PSI cold in front 32 in the back. -2 camber in front and -1 in back with 0 toe. I just added 1/16 toe out to the front and will be at Road America next week to try it out.

Later,

Enrique
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Old 08-21-2003, 12:52 PM   #14
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I agree whole heartedly!

I just did a track day yesterday and used the Full Open position. I felt less pushing and a more lively rear end.

I was a bit worried with race tires and less oversteer (race tires being less forgiving), but it wasn't a problem.

Russ

Quote:
Originally posted by 1LapGTi
I have had the STI on the track twice now, and I like to leave it in the Open setting. I felt the car did not push as much and it was easier to control with the throttle in the corners. I could also get the rear to step out a bit if needed by using the gas. I was running 42 PSI cold in front 32 in the back. -2 camber in front and -1 in back with 0 toe. I just added 1/16 toe out to the front and will be at Road America next week to try it out.

Later,

Enrique

Last edited by rlavalle; 08-21-2003 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 08-21-2003, 02:06 PM   #15
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Actually guys, we should divide this up by road course and then autox, for the car handles differently in each situation. On the track, you are hardly ever faced with a 1st gear hairpin or the quick side 2 side of a slalom. Not many slow speed turns either. And a lot of our understeer is caused by the low speed turns in an autox. And from what I seem to remember, understeer is the more forgiving on a track, where you'd die for oversteer in an autox.

And hey 1LapGTi, RA huh? That used to be my home away from home for many years back in the 70/80's! I ran there a few times with the Alfa Club and Midwest Council, as well as was a Course Marshal for Chi Region SCCA. Oh I MISS that place (and da BRATS!!!!!!!!) so much. Nuthin here in So Cal to compare since Riverside was torn down

Oh, and 42 fr / 32 rr???? I would not do that. On my WRX with 17" Azenis I found 38 fr and 44 rr made the car near perfect. The 38 in fr was cuz the Azenis are known to have a stiff sidewall, so don't need too much in it. But going lower in the rear, specially THAT low as you used I would not suggest. Granted, you want to induce oversteer, but by having too low a pressure to make the tire too wobbly is not good. You have less control of it that way. Its better to make the sidewall too stiff cuz you can control it much better, yet it will still come out the way way you want it.

Last edited by z3coupe; 08-21-2003 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 08-21-2003, 07:12 PM   #16
Zoso
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRX_Mundi
auto: good overall, and usually my fastest times.

open: nothing special. Didn't see any point to this.

GT, right above open: a bit more grip coming out of corners, you can feel the front pulling more.

GT, right below RT3: quite a bit different feel. You can feel the car pulling more out of corners. However, the feel of the car is also different trying to do more subtle maneuvers (offset gates, for example), and I think I like auto better right now.

RT3, middle to high value: Ouch. I didn't like this one bit. Horrible noises from the differential under hard braking. Didn't feel any better coming out of the corners than lower settings. Felt like the diff was fighting me.

You mention 2 GT's (green triangles) There is only 1 GT. Please explain.

Also RT3 is the the setting immediately above GT so I don't understand why you noticed such a drastic difference between GT and RT3, maybe you ment RT1 the Red Triangle right below lock??

guys remember:

LOCK
RT1
RT2
RT3
GT
OPEN




Quote:
Too bad we can't get one or more good consistent drivers (e.g. former national champions and/or Evo school instructors) to do runs at each logical setting. Listen to their comments as well as look at times (ideally segment times).
This is one of the best suggestions I've seen on NASIOC. I would pay money for this information. Why did you mention Evo drivers though?
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Old 08-21-2003, 07:20 PM   #17
Zoso
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Maybe it would be less confusing if we called the Red Triangle under LOCK 3 instead of 1

LOCK
RT3
RT2
RT1
GT
OPEN


This way as the locking factor is reduced so is the number of the Red Triangle.

Which way should we use to reference the position on the DCCD indicator?

LOCK
RT1
RT2
RT3
GT
OPEN

OR

LOCK
RT3
RT2
RT1
GT
OPEN
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Old 08-21-2003, 07:28 PM   #18
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Um, Z3... **** please. 32 psi cold is about right for the rear tires. A little higher than that and they have max grip. So you want to run that or lower, or shoot all the way upto 40psi or so to get less rear grip. Even at 32 psi they don't roll over much at all, but get a little squirmy so you can still rotate the car.
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Old 08-22-2003, 03:26 AM   #19
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XT6, in the past 2 years with my WRX, I tried all sorts of pressures, sway bars, shock settings, and even whether to keep the spare tire in or out of the car. And I found the car too squirly with the low pressures. Maybe you are using different tires? I don't know. But most of the SCCA folks in my region (in Solo II) feel you have better control with the higher (stiffer sidewall) pressures. And at the last event with these pressures, I lost out taking 1st place by only .184 seconds. Even beat the Prelude SH that normally would beat me in STX by a good margin. To me, the car never felt better! It was almost like a RWD car for once. But now with the STi, I will have to learn it all over again (tire pressures), and ad to that the sweet spot setting for the DCCD.
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Old 08-22-2003, 08:25 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoso
You mention 2 GT's (green triangles) There is only 1 GT. Please explain.
The indicators have distinct displays, but the DCCD control is analog. There is a, in my opinion, fairly noticible difference between having the setting in the green triangle with the control most toward open (i.e. just enough to get over the bump that locks it into open) and having it, still on the same green triangle, but pushed forward toward lock until it almost hits the yellow setting (RT3).

Quote:
Also RT3 is the the setting immediately above GT so I don't understand why you noticed such a drastic difference between GT and RT3, maybe you ment RT1 the Red Triangle right below lock??
No, I did not mean that. Given my experiences down toward the open end of things, I personally don't want to try running on dry pavement with it set up that high. Also, I've done some mildly spirited driving around town and it is nothing like an autocross -- more like a road course if anything, since you go straight for so long before a turn, nor am I doing quick weaves in and out between things right after a sharp turn, followed by a romp on the brakes (which would get me instantly rear-ended on the street, given the STi brakes). The settings just don't have anywhere near the effect on the streets that they do in an autocross where something is constantly happening.

So I agree with the person that suggested we separate this, or at least mention which we're talking about, into road course / street driving vs. autocross.

Quote:
Why did you mention Evo drivers though?
Sorry, I meant the Evolution Driving School, not the Evo car (same problem when talking about race seats -- Sparco Evo seats != Mitsubishi). The premier school for teaching autocross driving, available around the country. The instructors not only typically have multiple national championships in various cars, but have spent quite some time hopping in and out of different cars, often driving faster than the car owners who have been driving them for a long time. Hence they should be good at describing differences in handling.
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Old 08-22-2003, 02:53 PM   #21
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z3, I am talking about a stock suspension stock tired STi. 32 psi is on the low side of perfect. 38 psi is on the high side of perfect. perfect is somewhere in the middle, which on a bone stock suspension in a autoX is most likely the last thing you are looking for as the most rear grip is NOT a desired attribute.

So you can lower the rear grip by running 32 psi or lower or 38psi or higher. The 38psi or higher is smoother and better through slaloms by a bit, the 32psi or lower is harder to drive but much more stable under power and makes the car much more accurate in the placement of the front end as it winds the front diff up less (much much less wheel slip). It all comes down to what the course, the car, and the driver needs. There is NOTHING wrong with running low (for autoX) pressures in the stock 070's because they just flat don't rollover onto the shoulder like POS all seasons do. Think of them as a Victoracer w/o the ultimite grip or nasty tire wear issues.
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Old 08-22-2003, 06:26 PM   #22
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XT6, I understand what you are saying, but a few things . . . .

Sure the STi is stock susp and tires, but STi stock is damn near my STX prepped WRX! The regular stock WRX is far behind. I feel even right off the showroom, this car is great. The suspension is much stiffer than the WRX, and the tires are right up there with the Azenis. That is why I bought the STi, and plan to run it in stock class (or untill they allow 2.5 turbos in STX, now its up to 2.0L only) or our local street tire stock PAX class. Though untill (or unless) they are sold, I still have my Cusco Zero 2 coilovers I could install . . . . .

But time will tell, and I can't wait to break it in so to push it

Oh by the way. Have you tried the Azenis? If so, are the 070's sidewall as stiff (thus can use lower pressures), or is it soft (and thus need higher, stiffer pressures)?
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Old 08-22-2003, 09:56 PM   #23
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WRX_Mundi - Thanks, that clears that up!
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