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Old 06-02-2001, 11:23 PM   #1
sponaugle
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Exclamation Dyno results posted from NW i-club Dyno Day!

Results from the NW i-club Dyno day are posted at http://wrxworld.com/dyno

Summary: It was a great time. Thanks to Ryan for organizing this! FAME has a very nice setup with their 4 wheel dyno. They measure coast down so numbers can be corrected to the crank.

Almost all of the measurements were made in 4th gear. Near the end of the day, the white WRX was dyno'd in both 3rd and 4th, and 3rd had about a 10HP gain. The other numbers (of base stock models) seem to correlate this. (i.e. about 215HP stock, which should be 227)

It is important that everyone remember that the most important measurement is relative, not absolute. The numbers from the dyno are a bit on the low side, but the deltas are right on. We had a good selection of basic cars as well as a few exhaust and MBC mods. Some of the graphs are already posted at wrxworld, and I will get more up soon.

Here is a quick peak number summary:
First, ranked in order of HP peak:
Bone Stock: 210.4 HP
K&NFilter, SilencerRemoved: 215.7 HP (+5.3HP)
K&NFilter, SilencerRemoved, BPM TT Exhaust: 221.3 HP (+10.9HP)
K&NFilter, SilencerRemoved, MBC at 14.5: 225.6 HP (+15.2HP)
K&NFilter, SilencerRemoved, BPM TT Exhaust:, MBC at 14.5: 237.6 HP (+27.2HP)
Second, ranked in order of Torque peak:
Bone Stock: 235.1 ft-lbs
K&NFilter, SilencerRemoved: 242.0 ft-lbs
K&NFilter, SilencerRemoved, BPM TT Exhaust: 245.6 ft-lbs
K&NFilter, SilencerRemoved, MBC at 14.5: 248.5 ft-lbs
K&NFilter, SilencerRemoved, BPM TT Exhaust:, MBC at 14.5: 263.4 ft-lbs

I'll add the GT exhaust numbers shortly.


<IMG SRC="http://www.wrxworld.com/dyno/blueondyno.jpg" border=0>

<IMG SRC="http://www.wrxworld.com/dyno/scoobyday.jpg" border=0>

[This message has been edited by sponaugle (edited June 02, 2001).]
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Old 06-02-2001, 11:36 PM   #2
sponaugle
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Post

Rexy, who was running a BPM GT exhaust got 229.4hp w/ 246.2tq, as from his post. This is about 15 over the stock (as measured on this particular dyno in 4th), and between Curts two numbers. Makes sense to me.
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Old 06-02-2001, 11:48 PM   #3
Rexy
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Am I reading this one right?

K&NFilter, SilencerRemoved: 215.7 HP (+5.3HP)
K&NFilter, SilencerRemoved, BPM TT Exhaust: 221.3 HP (+10.9HP)

5.6hp increase for the TT setup? Just as much (or .3hp more) than the simple K/N and silencer mod alone? Naaa....
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Old 06-02-2001, 11:54 PM   #4
Imprezd
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Ok... now you know what i am noticing... that 2.5 turbo have a completely flat powerband to redline almost literally where as the WRX is just falling off the freaking planet by like 5800 rpms

[This message has been edited by Imprezd (edited June 02, 2001).]
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Old 06-02-2001, 11:59 PM   #5
sponaugle
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Well, the numbers are as I posted them. I have the graphs in the webpage as well. If you look at the TT graph without MBC, the biggest difference is in the spoolup. It is about 500 rpm sooner, and sharper. There is a bit more on the top end, but what did you guys expect? The BPM made the most difference when the MBC was added. That combo was the fastest of the day.

I think the BTM exhaust is very well constructed, but like any exhaust you will get more out of it combined with other mods.

Videos are are their way to the webserver... then you can watch the actual dyno sessions..

One other IMPORTANT factor. The "Bone stock" car was a different car then either the MBC only, or the MBC with exhaust. Same dyno, same day, but different car. I doubt the silencer removal and K&N gave the car 5 HP more... It could eaisly be variance in manufacture. None the less, it is interesting to see.
-Jeff


[This message has been edited by sponaugle (edited June 02, 2001).]
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Old 06-03-2001, 12:05 AM   #6
sponaugle
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Imprezd: As I would expect. My supercharged integra also had a flat curve to redline, running only 6PSI with 10.1:1 compression. The 2.5 was also running 6 with a VF22 sized turbo. I would expect it could hold that boost to redline.
Yep, those higher compression with turbos are pretty quick.
-Jeff
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Old 06-03-2001, 12:21 AM   #7
nmyeti
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Rexy,
I'll say it again, you can not do that. You need to have a stock baseline for EACH CAR before you try to figure out what sort of HP increase you gain from a modification. Heck for all we know, your rex was very sick. It might have only made like 180hp... Who knows? What really makes me wonder is that you saw no HP gain when you boosted a whole lot higher... This is not consistent with what others have found. There may be something wrong with your car, and instead of taking shots at BPM, you might want to figure out what is going on.


-Nathan
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Old 06-03-2001, 12:35 AM   #8
Rexy
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Yes, It is possible that my car was making 180hp stock, but extremely doubtful. I understand the baseline calibration. I have driven my car stock as well as two other stock WRXes and they felt exactly the same. I know that how it "feels" is not scientific either. My car is the same as any other and manufacturing differences in this day and age don't usually result in a 20hp or so difference. My car was prefectly normal for the first 2500 miles of its life until I added mods.
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Old 06-03-2001, 12:36 AM   #9
sponaugle
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Of course it is always important to use the same car. None the less, I did drive Curts car before and after the BPM TT install. It felt like something on the order of perhaps 10 or 15 HP. It didn't feel like 30-40. The spoolup was noticable, and 1st and 2nd seemed to benifit the most. I remember driving his car about a month earlier, and it seems comparable to my car. (this is before the TT install).

TurboXS' web page says it well:
"Dyno results with this kit installed showed that our WRX made 210hp at the wheels vs 180hp stock and a peak torque of 216ft-lbs vs. 192 ft-lbs stock. This is a 17% peak HP gain and 13% peak torque gain. Since we do not know true engine HP, we can only estimate peak crank horsepower at approximately 265 horsepower and peak torque at 243 ft-lbs. "

They are seeing about 17% with the chip and partial exhaust. We saw about 15% +/-, and there is some error since the baseline was a different car. None the less, the same ballpark. I don't think bolting on an exhaust, no matter what kind is going to give you more than 10-15%, perhaps 15-20% with a boost controller. If you really want power, get the larger turbo and the exhaust.

I don't think this is a bash on BPM in any way. I like the exhaust, it performed as I would expect, sounds great, and is well built.



[This message has been edited by sponaugle (edited June 02, 2001).]
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Old 06-03-2001, 01:25 AM   #10
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I'd like to thank all you guys for doing this, it was a fun day. I learned alot about my car and it's potential. I, for one, wanted to wait and see the dyno results before I spent any money and risked the reliability of my car....you can bet I'll be getting that little MBC and probably the scoobysport exhaust. Have you all heard SubiGal's car, it's very nice.
Scanner man, thank you for posting all of the results and the great pictures, what would we have done without you?
There were some good lessons in all of this. Simply bolting on the latest and greatest is not the best approach. A careful, thought out plan will work every time.
It would have been great if we could have had the yellow car run with the stock exhaust, no silencer, and then stock exhaust - with silencer, THEN we would have some truly complete results.
Don't forget what the man said, the HP results are tricky, and easily manipulated by the dyno operator, Torque is the true measure of that device.

All I can say is, I wish I could have driven home with Ethan, Nice job dude
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Old 06-03-2001, 03:02 AM   #11
Ethan
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Imprezd, also don't forget 5800 is almost my redline in the RS, I have another graph where the RPM are spaced out a little more and you can see more clearly how its falling also.
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Old 06-03-2001, 03:06 AM   #12
scotto
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Sponaugle,
Thanks, another great informative post!
On the intake, how much is the filter, and how much the silencer removal?

Funny, all the cars opting on the silencer removal.
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Old 06-03-2001, 04:41 AM   #13
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If you had truly gone for pure power gains you would have gone with the MKIII, as it is a true vortex condenser, not a muffler. What were the expectations for the TT? The MK is quoted in the ~20HP range ( their flagship system [ with which I saw 25 HP gains ]). My exhaust has transformed my car, and I will take you it to the track and prove gains against stock again if it will quell your trepidation...


SLR-
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Old 06-03-2001, 07:47 AM   #14
Imprezd
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Yeah 5800 is almost redline.. but i am sure the fall off slope is less dramatic on the RST than on the WRX. Perhaps, the WRX TDO4 is definitely falling of it's efficiency zone at higher RPM's ... I am curious to what the dyno chart looks like for a VF22 or better on the WRX...
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Old 06-03-2001, 04:20 PM   #15
Dave99
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Question

Uh, does anybody else think these dyno measurements would be more realistic if FAME attached a duct blowing ambient temp. air over the intercooler?

In real life, the whole point of that hood scoop is to cool the intercooler. On a dyno there's no air flow - look at the picture. They should invest in fan and some flexible ducts so the engine gets the optimal air / fuel pre-compression.

Dave.
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Old 06-03-2001, 05:01 PM   #16
Ethan
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Look at the pic with the Blue WRX. See that grey thing infront of the car, thats one fan. See the blue thing behind that, that's another fan.

Oh and the bay door was closed just for the pic. all the runs were done with those doors open

[This message has been edited by Ethan (edited June 03, 2001).]
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Old 06-03-2001, 05:11 PM   #17
Kevin Thomas
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Thanks guys for all of the dyno graphs. This is very very useful info. I'm learning more and more everyday about how the boxer engines produce their power and it's power curve. Keep up the good work.

BTW: An RS-T is truly a hp and torque monster, even with 6lbs of boost. Holy Cow!
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Old 06-03-2001, 05:14 PM   #18
Dave99
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Oh.

That's a good idea too.

Dave.

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Old 06-03-2001, 07:26 PM   #19
yebokmj
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I was excited to see the RS-T since I have the JC Sports kit also running 6lbs of boost. I know tunning has alot to do with it but it give me a vague idea.
Joshua
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Old 06-03-2001, 08:59 PM   #20
sponaugle
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I posted the rest of the videos. There are a couple of Curts TT WRX, plus two of Rexy's runs. (GT exhaust)
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Old 06-03-2001, 09:23 PM   #21
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SuicidalLabRat...you dynoed a 25hp gain with the mkIII? Where....
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Old 06-03-2001, 09:30 PM   #22
Rexy
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Thanks for the vids Jeff....You're the best. I appreciate all of your work getting this info up.
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Old 06-04-2001, 01:12 AM   #23
Turbo4me
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LabRat,

BPM was very clear on the gain differences when I purchased my TT. They said the the gains would be much less with the TT (8-11HP)and that is about what I saw. I wanted the twin tip so I went with fewr HP to get the look that I wanted. I wish I was in CA, because I would love to race another WRX and I would love to see the difference between the two mufflers. I am also curious about the noise factor. Mine is very quiet at speed, in fact you can't even hear it at 141.

Curt

[This message has been edited by Turbo4me (edited June 03, 2001).]
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Old 06-04-2001, 12:50 PM   #24
sponaugle
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In another post series about this, someone mentioned that they thought most runs at other dynos are done in 4th gear. As far as I have seen, most are done in 3rd. While 4th is closer to 1:1, I'm not really sure how much that matters. There is still a final drive ratio, so it is not like the wheels are 1:1 to the engine.

If you look at www.jacksonracing.com their dyno graphs are obviously done in 3rd gear (as by the 89 RPM/MPH)

When we were doing the calibration to determine driveline loss, the car was taken up to 85 MPH and then coasted down. Since a run in 3rd caps at about 95, I would think this calibration would be most accurate for a 3rd gear run. I would guess there are losses that are not linear with speed (some perhaps at speed^2, etc).

Anyways, I'm planning on heading back up soon with some more mods, and I'll do 3rd gear runs this time.

Who was the MS guy in the white WRX? I always seems to forget names!


[This message has been edited by sponaugle (edited June 04, 2001).]
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Old 06-04-2001, 04:14 PM   #25
SuicidalLabRat
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I ran on GTMotorsports 4wheel dyno jet, the #'s are in third, but we did a run through pass as well. I suffered a considerable amount of soak unfortunately. I'll be back down there next month as well...

SLR-
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