TB Bypass Question

Zen · 07-17-2003, 09:24 PM

I did the tb bypass mod tonight and I capped the inlets with some aluminum foil. I'm a little scared that somehow they might get sucked in. Should I get some real plastic caps ASAP or can I take it easy till the weekend to get some caps?
Thanks

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Legacy777 · 07-17-2003, 10:31 PM

How can they get sucked in? The two end caps are connected to one pipe that runs through the base of the TB. You could leave them open if you really wanted to, but dirt would get inside the pipe.

Just put some duct tape or masking tape around the caps.

Zen · 07-18-2003, 12:10 AM

k just being worried for no aparant reason

thanks for the reply

Legacy777 · 07-18-2003, 08:16 AM

no prob

kickin_81 · 07-18-2003, 10:37 AM

Ha! I've had my throttle body inlet/outlet wrapped in aluminum foil since last September. I never had them fall off. My throttle body never showed any freezing up the whole winter.

Dr Ken · 07-18-2003, 10:44 AM

What's the concensus: Is it really worth doing?

Legacy777 · 07-18-2003, 10:58 AM

Yes I'd say it's worth doing. It improved throttle response. that was the big thing. I wouldn't say it gave me gobs more power though.

orndog · 07-18-2003, 11:26 AM

Let me get this straight... this just keeps your intake temperatures cooler right?

Russell Rogers · 07-18-2003, 11:26 AM

Is there directions to show how to do this. I have no idea what you guys are talking about

, but someone said increased throttle response? Thanks again

Russell

JewPac42 · 07-18-2003, 11:33 AM

www.scoobymods.com

Legacy777 · 07-18-2003, 01:42 PM

yes, the main thing this does is keep the intake air charge cooler. Stock it routes engine coolant through the throttle body, which in turn heats everything up, the metal, intake, air, etc.

kickin_81 · 07-18-2003, 02:22 PM

FYI, the intake manifold gaskets are thin and aren't designed to resist the heat transfer to the manifold. So after driving for a bit, if the throttle body doesn't heat up the manifold, the heads will.

I did the phenolic spacer modification before the throttlebody mod, and it kept the manifold cooler a bit longer than without it. Over 10-20 minutes of driving, the manifold would get very hot again. I then did the TB mod and it helped the manifold stay cool completely. The manifold still absorbs heat from the underhood temps, but it doesn't get as hot as w/o these two modifications. I can place my hand on the whole intake manifold, and it would just be warm after a long drive. But it cools down pretty quick and stays cool when cool water is sprayed on it. The only heat that touches the intake manifold is the underhood temperature.

I wonder if the new Cry02 system will finish up my cold air intake system?

RokketRide · 07-18-2003, 02:38 PM

who makes the phenolic spacers?

Legacy777 · 07-18-2003, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kickin_81
FYI, the intake manifold gaskets are thin and aren't designed to resist the heat transfer to the manifold. So after driving for a bit, if the throttle body doesn't heat up the manifold, the heads will.

I did the phenolic spacer modification....

Where'd you get your phhenolic spacers? Do you use them in place of the gaskets or in conjunction with?

I think someone said they didn't make them for the EJ22. I wonder if I could custom do a set.

Other then just the temps dropping. Did you notice any difference with them?

Are they as durable as a stock gasket, or would they need to be replaced more often?

Thanks

Josh

kickin_81 · 07-18-2003, 03:21 PM

I got the phenolic sheet from Lee Valley Tools. It is the 1/4" sheet they have on the list: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...urrency=2&SID=

At $30, it was not a bad deal. They are a Canadian based company. I ordered my phenolic sheet by phone/Credit card. It arrived in a big frame-box. It is protected by some white paper that's tacked on that you peel off, and it's a black material (looks like carbon fiber w/o the strands). It's a hard material that won't bend. I just bought an intake manifold gasket from the dealership, and traced the shape and holes over the white tacky paper. It took me a whole saturday in my room using a dremel tool to cut out the shape. I'm so glad I finished. It would have been a lot easier to cut it into shape with professional tools, but I didn't choose that as an option. I used a blue gasket-maker gel that I purchased from an auto store to keep air from seeping in. It's been over a year and it's still holding. If I was boosting, detonation won't be much of a worry (air heated by the manifold).

by the way, Subachad was selling some for the EJ25 last year. His phenolic spacers were green (from the picture I've seen).

kickin_81 · 07-18-2003, 03:30 PM

Here is a post I was involved in:

http://www.rs25.com/Forums/showthrea...enolic+spacers

...and one on the throttle body bypass mod:

http://www.rs25.com/Forums/showthrea...enolic+spacers

RokketRide · 07-18-2003, 04:43 PM

wonder if you can get away with putting a gasket on top and bottom of the spacers. Not into "gluing" the manifold down.

kickin_81 · 07-18-2003, 05:31 PM

I'm sure you can. That'd be 4 gaskets from the dealership though. I would assume the gasket gel isn't a glue. It's just a sealant... like the bulb grease you put onto new bulbs so they won't get moisture into them.

orndog · 07-18-2003, 05:54 PM

So are we doing a spacer group buy then? I'm in if so!

Legacy777 · 07-18-2003, 06:44 PM

I didn't know it was just a polyethylene material. What thickness did you get? The stuff seems ok to heat?

I've got two gaskets now, I'd need another two if I went the gasket route. I don't think it would really matter whether you used gaskets or an rtv silicone sealant.

Probably the best way to cut these out would be dremel based tool that has a base, sits perpendicular to the surface of the material and you just move it along and cut out the shape.

You would need new intake manifold bolts correct?

Legacy777 · 07-18-2003, 06:50 PM

I didn't think about it, but you are moving the fuel injector further away from the cylinder port. That may help spread the fuel around......not sure.

kickin_81 · 07-19-2003, 11:52 AM

If you're talking paper sheets of the phenolic material, it will burn. ...but being thick at 1/4", it is very unlikely to burn. I was surprised that it actually kept my intake manifold cool... and so did all the other Impreza guys who touched my intake manifold.

The intake manifold will be raised a 1/4" +gaskets in between. There was very little to no lack of throttle response due to the raised fuel injectors. If you can picture looking through it, it looks like the fuel spray is more evenly sprayed to the center of the intake valves. I know Subaru made their fuel injectors to run at peak performance vs emissions, but this extra height caused no problems with CELs, performance, and anything else related.

Legacy777 · 07-20-2003, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kickin_81
If you're talking paper sheets of the phenolic material, it will burn. vs emissions, but this extra height caused no problems with CELs, performance, and anything else related.

Intake manifold bolts? did the stock ones work, were they long enough?

I think you probably would actually get better a/f homogination with it raised slightly.

xfrickx · 07-20-2003, 01:44 PM

somebody in the past posted a site that sold the Phoe?? spacers for the EJ25, on Nasioc or 25rs.com. They sold them for $75 for 3 sets. I somone coulf find that site again. We could group up and buy them.

Dr Ken · 07-20-2003, 02:00 PM

Yah, I'd be keen to buy a set. I dont have the ability to make these, but they seem they wouldn't be terribly difficult for someone with the equipment and desire to make a bit of dosh. Come to think of it, it seems feasible rough-cut them with a bandsaw and finish them with a router on a jig.

07-17-2003, 09:24 PM	#1
Zen Scooby Newbie Member#: 12656 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Toronto "spd frk"	TB Bypass Question I did the tb bypass mod tonight and I capped the inlets with some aluminum foil. I'm a little scared that somehow they might get sucked in. Should I get some real plastic caps ASAP or can I take it easy till the weekend to get some caps? Thanks * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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07-17-2003, 10:31 PM	#2
Legacy777 Scooby Guru Member#: 4800 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 1990 Legacy & 97 OBS AWD 5MT EJ22T AWIC Swap	How can they get sucked in? The two end caps are connected to one pipe that runs through the base of the TB. You could leave them open if you really wanted to, but dirt would get inside the pipe. Just put some duct tape or masking tape around the caps.

07-18-2003, 12:10 AM	#3
Zen Scooby Newbie Member#: 12656 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Toronto "spd frk"	k just being worried for no aparant reason thanks for the reply

07-18-2003, 08:16 AM	#4
Legacy777 Scooby Guru Member#: 4800 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 1990 Legacy & 97 OBS AWD 5MT EJ22T AWIC Swap	no prob

07-18-2003, 10:37 AM	#5
kickin_81 Scooby Newbie Member#: 16679 Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: MN Vehicle: 2004 Forester XT	Ha! I've had my throttle body inlet/outlet wrapped in aluminum foil since last September. I never had them fall off. My throttle body never showed any freezing up the whole winter.

07-18-2003, 10:44 AM	#6
Dr Ken Scooby Specialist Member#: 5885 Join Date: Apr 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Portland Oregon Vehicle: 2000 RS (GME) SilvAr	What's the concensus: Is it really worth doing?

07-18-2003, 10:58 AM	#7
Legacy777 Scooby Guru Member#: 4800 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 1990 Legacy & 97 OBS AWD 5MT EJ22T AWIC Swap	Yes I'd say it's worth doing. It improved throttle response. that was the big thing. I wouldn't say it gave me gobs more power though.

07-18-2003, 11:26 AM	#8
orndog Scooby Specialist Member#: 34670 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Atlanta Vehicle: If she smokes she pokes	Let me get this straight... this just keeps your intake temperatures cooler right?

07-18-2003, 11:26 AM	#9
Russell Rogers Scooby Specialist Member#: 27261 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Wa Vehicle: 1999 www.prjct1.com I'm Ron Burgundy?	Is there directions to show how to do this. I have no idea what you guys are talking about , but someone said increased throttle response? Thanks again Russell

07-18-2003, 11:33 AM	#10
JewPac42 Scooby Guru Member#: 23260 Join Date: Aug 2002 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: -=3/1 Jew Crew=- Vehicle: Patr ick Willis for Rookie of the year	www.scoobymods.com

07-18-2003, 01:42 PM	#11
Legacy777 Scooby Guru Member#: 4800 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 1990 Legacy & 97 OBS AWD 5MT EJ22T AWIC Swap	yes, the main thing this does is keep the intake air charge cooler. Stock it routes engine coolant through the throttle body, which in turn heats everything up, the metal, intake, air, etc.

07-18-2003, 02:22 PM	#12
kickin_81 Scooby Newbie Member#: 16679 Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: MN Vehicle: 2004 Forester XT	FYI, the intake manifold gaskets are thin and aren't designed to resist the heat transfer to the manifold. So after driving for a bit, if the throttle body doesn't heat up the manifold, the heads will. I did the phenolic spacer modification before the throttlebody mod, and it kept the manifold cooler a bit longer than without it. Over 10-20 minutes of driving, the manifold would get very hot again. I then did the TB mod and it helped the manifold stay cool completely. The manifold still absorbs heat from the underhood temps, but it doesn't get as hot as w/o these two modifications. I can place my hand on the whole intake manifold, and it would just be warm after a long drive. But it cools down pretty quick and stays cool when cool water is sprayed on it. The only heat that touches the intake manifold is the underhood temperature. I wonder if the new Cry02 system will finish up my cold air intake system?

07-18-2003, 02:38 PM	#13
RokketRide Scooby Specialist Member#: 17984 Join Date: Apr 2002 Vehicle: 1967 Barracuda	who makes the phenolic spacers?

07-18-2003, 03:21 PM	#15
kickin_81 Scooby Newbie Member#: 16679 Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: MN Vehicle: 2004 Forester XT	I got the phenolic sheet from Lee Valley Tools. It is the 1/4" sheet they have on the list: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...urrency=2&SID= At $30, it was not a bad deal. They are a Canadian based company. I ordered my phenolic sheet by phone/Credit card. It arrived in a big frame-box. It is protected by some white paper that's tacked on that you peel off, and it's a black material (looks like carbon fiber w/o the strands). It's a hard material that won't bend. I just bought an intake manifold gasket from the dealership, and traced the shape and holes over the white tacky paper. It took me a whole saturday in my room using a dremel tool to cut out the shape. I'm so glad I finished. It would have been a lot easier to cut it into shape with professional tools, but I didn't choose that as an option. I used a blue gasket-maker gel that I purchased from an auto store to keep air from seeping in. It's been over a year and it's still holding. If I was boosting, detonation won't be much of a worry (air heated by the manifold). by the way, Subachad was selling some for the EJ25 last year. His phenolic spacers were green (from the picture I've seen).

07-18-2003, 03:30 PM	#16
kickin_81 Scooby Newbie Member#: 16679 Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: MN Vehicle: 2004 Forester XT	Here is a post I was involved in: http://www.rs25.com/Forums/showthrea...enolic+spacers ...and one on the throttle body bypass mod: http://www.rs25.com/Forums/showthrea...enolic+spacers

07-18-2003, 04:43 PM	#17
RokketRide Scooby Specialist Member#: 17984 Join Date: Apr 2002 Vehicle: 1967 Barracuda	wonder if you can get away with putting a gasket on top and bottom of the spacers. Not into "gluing" the manifold down.

07-18-2003, 05:31 PM	#18
kickin_81 Scooby Newbie Member#: 16679 Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: MN Vehicle: 2004 Forester XT	I'm sure you can. That'd be 4 gaskets from the dealership though. I would assume the gasket gel isn't a glue. It's just a sealant... like the bulb grease you put onto new bulbs so they won't get moisture into them.

07-18-2003, 05:54 PM	#19
orndog Scooby Specialist Member#: 34670 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Atlanta Vehicle: If she smokes she pokes	So are we doing a spacer group buy then? I'm in if so!

07-18-2003, 06:44 PM	#20
Legacy777 Scooby Guru Member#: 4800 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 1990 Legacy & 97 OBS AWD 5MT EJ22T AWIC Swap	I didn't know it was just a polyethylene material. What thickness did you get? The stuff seems ok to heat? I've got two gaskets now, I'd need another two if I went the gasket route. I don't think it would really matter whether you used gaskets or an rtv silicone sealant. Probably the best way to cut these out would be dremel based tool that has a base, sits perpendicular to the surface of the material and you just move it along and cut out the shape. You would need new intake manifold bolts correct?

07-18-2003, 06:50 PM	#21
Legacy777 Scooby Guru Member#: 4800 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 1990 Legacy & 97 OBS AWD 5MT EJ22T AWIC Swap	I didn't think about it, but you are moving the fuel injector further away from the cylinder port. That may help spread the fuel around......not sure.

07-19-2003, 11:52 AM	#22
kickin_81 Scooby Newbie Member#: 16679 Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: MN Vehicle: 2004 Forester XT	If you're talking paper sheets of the phenolic material, it will burn. ...but being thick at 1/4", it is very unlikely to burn. I was surprised that it actually kept my intake manifold cool... and so did all the other Impreza guys who touched my intake manifold. The intake manifold will be raised a 1/4" +gaskets in between. There was very little to no lack of throttle response due to the raised fuel injectors. If you can picture looking through it, it looks like the fuel spray is more evenly sprayed to the center of the intake valves. I know Subaru made their fuel injectors to run at peak performance vs emissions, but this extra height caused no problems with CELs, performance, and anything else related.

07-20-2003, 01:44 PM	#24
xfrickx Scooby Specialist Member#: 7267 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: SF CA Vehicle: 1994 Honda VFR RC-36 2002 Subaru 2.5RS	somebody in the past posted a site that sold the Phoe?? spacers for the EJ25, on Nasioc or 25rs.com. They sold them for $75 for 3 sets. I somone coulf find that site again. We could group up and buy them.

07-20-2003, 02:00 PM	#25
Dr Ken Scooby Specialist Member#: 5885 Join Date: Apr 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Portland Oregon Vehicle: 2000 RS (GME) SilvAr	Yah, I'd be keen to buy a set. I dont have the ability to make these, but they seem they wouldn't be terribly difficult for someone with the equipment and desire to make a bit of dosh. Come to think of it, it seems feasible rough-cut them with a bandsaw and finish them with a router on a jig.