WRX injectors in 2000 RS - Page 2

Trizzle · 11-25-2003, 07:25 PM

take lots of pictures

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

svxr8dr · 11-26-2003, 04:23 PM

Wow Yoshio moves fast, I just got the adapter via UPS priority today, that guy is the best!!

JoeT · 11-26-2003, 06:54 PM

He does fantastic work. Our team won top honours in the CASC (same as scca but for Canada) in each of the classes we raced in. The common denominator was Yoshio's tuning in all of the winning cars.

Yep.. He's good.

Trizzle · 11-29-2003, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PunKidd
The 99 manifold thing is not a myth, it's the best way to get the best performance out of WRX/STi injectors. You can machine any of the newer manifolds to fit the injectors properly, but the 99 manifold is already done. You can get the injectors to seal in the newer manifolds by simply adding new o-rings, or using the adaptors but the tips of the injectors will not be flush w/ the inside of the runners. The tips of the injectors need to sit flush w/ the runners for the entire spray pattern to make it into the air stream for optimal atomization and performance. If the tips of the injectors are not flush w/ the runners part of the spray pattern will spry onto the inside of the injector bung or adaptor instead of into the air stream. Even the adaptors will not put the injectors into the runners as far as they need to be for optimal atomization. The performance trade of is probably negligible, but when you're trying to squeeze out every drop of performance the 99 manifold (or a machined manifold) is going to be the best way to go.
-Jared.

So is this basically what's goin on?(see pic) 2000 2.5 manifold is too deep so WRX injectors spray half their fuel on the side of the hole the injector is mounted in, instead of into the airflow? That seems like it would be a Very Bad Thing (TM) because that fuel would then dribble down into the airflow in (relatively) large droplets. Ideally of course the fuel droplets would be very small so that you get a good, consistent air/fuel mixture, cooler charge, and consistent burn.

Is this a problem even with the adapters? I would assume that it is. This seems like a problem that could only be solved by changine either the manifold or the injectors in order to get a truly proper fit.

FJP · 11-29-2003, 05:49 AM

The only problem with your theory is that an 01 and a 99 injector are one in the same. The 01 just has an added piece of plastic on it for the air assist system. Even so, simply using a Dremel you could port the injector holes, without the help of a machinist.

PunKidd · 11-29-2003, 11:58 AM

Trizzle, that's right.

FJP,
True about the Subaru injector bodies, and even the WRX/STi injectors have the same dimensions as the 99, but that little plastic pice on the end of the 00 and newer is a nozzle and therefore creates a new spray pattern and directs the fuel into the air stream. That little plastic nozzle also has holes in the side of it for the air assist which also improves atomization of the fuel. W/o the nozzle the spray pattern is all wrong unless you get the tip of it so sit flush w/ the intake runner.

Yes, you could cut down the manifold w/ a dremel (and I know a few people have), but most people on the board are not up for such a task. Also take into account that if you cut down the injector bungs that you have to be careful not to put the lower o-ring seat where the air assist holes are. You'll also have to cut down the fuel rail mounting brackets so that they will hold the injectors in new deeper bungs. You'd have to cut them down and weld them so they'll be shorter. You could also use the 99 fuel rails as they will already be the right height.

The best overall solution for the problem may be to get some of thews little plastic nozzles and put them on the WRX/STi injectors. I've tried getting them from Subaru, but they would not sell them separately. I also tired getting the ones off of my stock injectors, but w/ no luck. It looks like you could cut the clip off of the nozzle w/ a dremel and then stick them back on the WRX/STi injectors w/o the clip. I didn't try it because I already got the 99 manifold by the time I got that far.

There may be a few problems to using the nozzles. One problem may come from the fact that they were designed to work under vacuum and not under pressure, and I assume that anyone doing this mod is running boost, so the nozzles may still not give the best spray patterns. Also, I believe that the tips of the injectors that come w/ the plastic nozzles are different. I think that the spray pattern is designed to work specifically w/ the nozzles, and therefore the WRX/STi injectors may not work w/ the plastic nozzles anyway.

Hope all that was helpfull,
Jared

FJP · 11-29-2003, 02:14 PM

Mild porting is way easy.

Texas25RS · 11-29-2003, 02:29 PM

some captions to the photos, please?

CuzImChinese · 09-15-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FJP

Mild porting is way easy.

ok i know this is an old post but i'm trying to do this and am new to this as well

is that green part on the injector the nozzle kit from Yoshio?
and the left is an unmodded wrx injector?

Skidd · 09-15-2010, 01:59 PM

I could be wrong, but the left one looks like a 99 NA 280cc non-air-assist injector.
Almost the same as the WRX injector, but not exactly. The main difference being in the input end.
The right is a stock 00-01 injector. The green bit is a part of the stock injector.

CuzImChinese · 09-15-2010, 02:29 PM

ok than does anyone have a picture of the Yoshio kit so i can fit sti top fed injectors on my 00rs? i have a turbo rs project going on

Odyknuck · 09-15-2010, 02:36 PM

One thing to add to this is if you do not get the Injectors down in the port or port the opening I suspect that when you let off the throttle you will get a backfire from the raw fuel left on the sides of the port hole after the Injector is turned off. This is what i suspect is happening to my car. I plan on either getting a 99 manifold without the air assist or port the holes like shown above.

CuzImChinese · 09-15-2010, 03:00 PM

i read if i do sand down the runners for the injectors, the sti top fed injectors will sit lower and i would have to weld the fuel rail is that true?

Odyknuck · 09-20-2010, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuzImChinese

i read if i do sand down the runners for the injectors, the sti top fed injectors will sit lower and i would have to weld the fuel rail is that true?

Lowering the injector into the manifold will require a mod to the fuel rail to compensate.

VIsubi · 09-20-2010, 06:47 PM

Why not just upgrade to 440 sets for the N/A that deshworks sell which are stock size yet flow way more. That's what I'm running right now top feed 440's and no leaks at all. Minus P0172 cel which is fuel system too rich due to the datalog tune for the supercharger. New map being made.

Skidd · 09-20-2010, 09:26 PM

The problem isn't the flow rate or availability of options.
It's the dang intake manifold design of the 00-01 EJ251 and the damn AirAssist ports!
Nobody, I repeat Nobody makes a high-flow replacement designed for that Manifold.

Odyknuck · 09-21-2010, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skidd

The problem isn't the flow rate or availability of options.
It's the dang intake manifold design of the 00-01 EJ251 and the damn AirAssist ports!
Nobody, I repeat Nobody makes a high-flow replacement designed for that Manifold.

I agree. The best option is to unshroud the Injector port as shown above and run 440s . Wish I would have done that when my Intake was off lol.

Skidd · 09-21-2010, 03:12 PM

*cough*
<-- has a 99 IM hanging in my Garage!!
*cough*

*cough*
Knows where there is another one for sale!
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f177/t142...pd-coated.html
*cough*

LetItSnow · 09-21-2010, 03:33 PM

I might have one of those in my basement, as well.

Odyknuck · 09-21-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skidd

*cough*
<-- has a 99 IM hanging in my Garage!!
*cough*

*cough*
Knows where there is another one for sale!
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f177/t142...pd-coated.html
*cough*

Thought you were going to keep that? pm me with details.

Skidd · 09-21-2010, 04:42 PM

I'm keepin' mine!
That link is to another one up for sale!

CuzImChinese · 09-23-2010, 12:12 PM

http://www.facebook.com/vongperson

okay i actually just tried putting on 04 wrx injectors on to my 00rs intake manifold. and it worked.

i just used the top o-ring on my stock injector and put them on the wrx and got an o ring kit and tryed out all the different sizes on the bottom of the wrx injectors till i found the one that sealed the intake manifold injector port. and it worked fine. no back fires at all.

also note that i'm running a aem series 2 ems. so if you going to do this and still run stock ecu u'll probaly back fire from running too rich since the wrx injectors are bigger than the 00rs ones.

Odyknuck · 09-23-2010, 03:37 PM

I am running the OEM ECU along with a Greddy Ultimate piggyback. I can not seem to dial out the popping. That's why I suspect the long runners. Keep in mind that this motor is in an offroad car and it usally only happens on down grades.

snake32 · 09-23-2010, 11:58 PM

i'm running a 02 rs engine on my 00 car now, got the turbo kit installed and just waiting till i get the EMU in to boost up this thing, i'm in the market for some injectors now, do i am in the same boat or the 02 rs injectos are different and i'm trouble free??

one more thing... with the stock 00 engine the car was backfiring, with the new one wich is using the stock 02 rs IM still does it!!!! what the reason then? fuel pump? filter? ecu?

CuzImChinese · 09-24-2010, 06:05 PM

my setup is sti short block with jdm wrx heads and 00rs intake manifold with 04 wrx injectors, stock header wrx with td04 wrx turbo, and full catless 3"inch turbo back exhaust.

i find the back firing a tuning problem. i was even back firing with my stock injectors with my turbo setup. but after i did a quick road tune on it the back fire was gone.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Using 06 wrx clutch in 2000 RS?	KONKILR	Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline	10	10-15-2009 10:49 AM
WRX Injectors in 2000 RS what am I missing?	Aphex28	Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain	4	07-15-2006 11:48 AM
Do I need a WRX Fuel rail to run WRX injectors in an RS-T?	Tattoo Collector	Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain	10	01-14-2006 09:06 AM
fuel injectors for 2000 rs	brokemypiston	Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain	6	03-17-2003 07:11 AM
02 WRX Injectors in my RS-t? Kinda Important!	adamsrs	Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain	1	03-05-2002 02:25 AM

11-25-2003, 07:25 PM	#26
Trizzle Scooby Newbie Member#: 38039 Join Date: Jun 2003 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Bend, OR Vehicle: 1984 VW Westfalia with EJ25 Power	take lots of pictures * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

11-26-2003, 04:23 PM	#27
svxr8dr * Banned * Member#: 1702 Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Vancouver, WA USA Vehicle: 2001 2.5 RS-T Blueridge Pearl	Wow Yoshio moves fast, I just got the adapter via UPS priority today, that guy is the best!!

11-26-2003, 06:54 PM	#28
JoeT Scooby Specialist Member#: 3956 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Vehicle: 2000 Turbo Legacy GT Titanium	He does fantastic work. Our team won top honours in the CASC (same as scca but for Canada) in each of the classes we raced in. The common denominator was Yoshio's tuning in all of the winning cars. Yep.. He's good.

11-29-2003, 05:49 AM	#30
FJP Scooby Newbie Member#: 43852 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: aka SubaFastR Vehicle: GC8 2.5RST Black	The only problem with your theory is that an 01 and a 99 injector are one in the same. The 01 just has an added piece of plastic on it for the air assist system. Even so, simply using a Dremel you could port the injector holes, without the help of a machinist.

11-29-2003, 11:58 AM	#31
PunKidd Scooby Specialist Member#: 8533 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Austin TX Vehicle: 2002 2.5 RS-T LudeSpeed S. III W/ FMIC	Trizzle, that's right. FJP, True about the Subaru injector bodies, and even the WRX/STi injectors have the same dimensions as the 99, but that little plastic pice on the end of the 00 and newer is a nozzle and therefore creates a new spray pattern and directs the fuel into the air stream. That little plastic nozzle also has holes in the side of it for the air assist which also improves atomization of the fuel. W/o the nozzle the spray pattern is all wrong unless you get the tip of it so sit flush w/ the intake runner. Yes, you could cut down the manifold w/ a dremel (and I know a few people have), but most people on the board are not up for such a task. Also take into account that if you cut down the injector bungs that you have to be careful not to put the lower o-ring seat where the air assist holes are. You'll also have to cut down the fuel rail mounting brackets so that they will hold the injectors in new deeper bungs. You'd have to cut them down and weld them so they'll be shorter. You could also use the 99 fuel rails as they will already be the right height. The best overall solution for the problem may be to get some of thews little plastic nozzles and put them on the WRX/STi injectors. I've tried getting them from Subaru, but they would not sell them separately. I also tired getting the ones off of my stock injectors, but w/ no luck. It looks like you could cut the clip off of the nozzle w/ a dremel and then stick them back on the WRX/STi injectors w/o the clip. I didn't try it because I already got the 99 manifold by the time I got that far. There may be a few problems to using the nozzles. One problem may come from the fact that they were designed to work under vacuum and not under pressure, and I assume that anyone doing this mod is running boost, so the nozzles may still not give the best spray patterns. Also, I believe that the tips of the injectors that come w/ the plastic nozzles are different. I think that the spray pattern is designed to work specifically w/ the nozzles, and therefore the WRX/STi injectors may not work w/ the plastic nozzles anyway. Hope all that was helpfull, Jared

11-29-2003, 02:14 PM	#32
FJP Scooby Newbie Member#: 43852 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: aka SubaFastR Vehicle: GC8 2.5RST Black	Mild porting is way easy.

11-29-2003, 02:29 PM	#33
Texas25RS Scooby Guru Member#: 3148 Join Date: Dec 2000 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: DFW, TX Vehicle: 2012 Mazdaspeed 3 Crystal White Pearl Mica	some captions to the photos, please?

09-15-2010, 01:59 PM	#35
Skidd Scooby Specialist Member#: 1853 Join Date: Jul 2000 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: SA-TX (Hozer expat) Vehicle: GC6 Supercharged STM	I could be wrong, but the left one looks like a 99 NA 280cc non-air-assist injector. Almost the same as the WRX injector, but not exactly. The main difference being in the input end. The right is a stock 00-01 injector. The green bit is a part of the stock injector.

09-15-2010, 02:29 PM	#36
CuzImChinese Scooby Newbie Member#: 179521 Join Date: May 2008 Chapter/Region: SCIC Vehicle: 00 2.5rs WRX STi Silver	ok than does anyone have a picture of the Yoshio kit so i can fit sti top fed injectors on my 00rs? i have a turbo rs project going on

09-15-2010, 02:36 PM	#37
Odyknuck Scooby Newbie Member#: 192866 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Rome, Ohio Vehicle: 2006 Impreza Blue	One thing to add to this is if you do not get the Injectors down in the port or port the opening I suspect that when you let off the throttle you will get a backfire from the raw fuel left on the sides of the port hole after the Injector is turned off. This is what i suspect is happening to my car. I plan on either getting a 99 manifold without the air assist or port the holes like shown above.

09-15-2010, 03:00 PM	#38
CuzImChinese Scooby Newbie Member#: 179521 Join Date: May 2008 Chapter/Region: SCIC Vehicle: 00 2.5rs WRX STi Silver	i read if i do sand down the runners for the injectors, the sti top fed injectors will sit lower and i would have to weld the fuel rail is that true?

09-20-2010, 06:47 PM	#40
VIsubi Scooby Specialist Member#: 187834 Join Date: Aug 2008 Vehicle: 06 2.5i impreza Red	Why not just upgrade to 440 sets for the N/A that deshworks sell which are stock size yet flow way more. That's what I'm running right now top feed 440's and no leaks at all. Minus P0172 cel which is fuel system too rich due to the datalog tune for the supercharger. New map being made.

09-20-2010, 09:26 PM	#41
Skidd Scooby Specialist Member#: 1853 Join Date: Jul 2000 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: SA-TX (Hozer expat) Vehicle: GC6 Supercharged STM	The problem isn't the flow rate or availability of options. It's the dang intake manifold design of the 00-01 EJ251 and the damn AirAssist ports! Nobody, I repeat Nobody makes a high-flow replacement designed for that Manifold.

09-21-2010, 03:12 PM	#43
Skidd Scooby Specialist Member#: 1853 Join Date: Jul 2000 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: SA-TX (Hozer expat) Vehicle: GC6 Supercharged STM	cough <-- has a 99 IM hanging in my Garage!! cough cough Knows where there is another one for sale! http://www.rs25.com/forums/f177/t142...pd-coated.html cough

09-21-2010, 03:33 PM	#44
LetItSnow Scooby Specialist Member#: 38222 Join Date: Jun 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Cicero, NY Vehicle: '10 &'12 Foresters another Miata convert	I might have one of those in my basement, as well.

09-21-2010, 04:42 PM	#46
Skidd Scooby Specialist Member#: 1853 Join Date: Jul 2000 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: SA-TX (Hozer expat) Vehicle: GC6 Supercharged STM	I'm keepin' mine! That link is to another one up for sale!

09-23-2010, 12:12 PM	#47
CuzImChinese Scooby Newbie Member#: 179521 Join Date: May 2008 Chapter/Region: SCIC Vehicle: 00 2.5rs WRX STi Silver	http://www.facebook.com/vongperson okay i actually just tried putting on 04 wrx injectors on to my 00rs intake manifold. and it worked. i just used the top o-ring on my stock injector and put them on the wrx and got an o ring kit and tryed out all the different sizes on the bottom of the wrx injectors till i found the one that sealed the intake manifold injector port. and it worked fine. no back fires at all. also note that i'm running a aem series 2 ems. so if you going to do this and still run stock ecu u'll probaly back fire from running too rich since the wrx injectors are bigger than the 00rs ones.

09-23-2010, 03:37 PM	#48
Odyknuck Scooby Newbie Member#: 192866 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Rome, Ohio Vehicle: 2006 Impreza Blue	I am running the OEM ECU along with a Greddy Ultimate piggyback. I can not seem to dial out the popping. That's why I suspect the long runners. Keep in mind that this motor is in an offroad car and it usally only happens on down grades.

09-23-2010, 11:58 PM	#49
snake32 Scooby Specialist Member#: 167338 Join Date: Dec 2007 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: new jersey Vehicle: 2000 Aspen rs Rotated mass	i'm running a 02 rs engine on my 00 car now, got the turbo kit installed and just waiting till i get the EMU in to boost up this thing, i'm in the market for some injectors now, do i am in the same boat or the 02 rs injectos are different and i'm trouble free?? one more thing... with the stock 00 engine the car was backfiring, with the new one wich is using the stock 02 rs IM still does it!!!! what the reason then? fuel pump? filter? ecu?

09-24-2010, 06:05 PM	#50
CuzImChinese Scooby Newbie Member#: 179521 Join Date: May 2008 Chapter/Region: SCIC Vehicle: 00 2.5rs WRX STi Silver	my setup is sti short block with jdm wrx heads and 00rs intake manifold with 04 wrx injectors, stock header wrx with td04 wrx turbo, and full catless 3"inch turbo back exhaust. i find the back firing a tuning problem. i was even back firing with my stock injectors with my turbo setup. but after i did a quick road tune on it the back fire was gone.