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Old 11-14-2000, 08:14 PM   #1
Overtime
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Member#: 1346
Join Date: Apr 2000
Post Components for groupbuy turbos...thoughts?

I just wanted to give you all a chance to look at these and debate about them. What you like, what you don't like, etc.

Tom and I did some discussing over this, and we decided on the parts to include with each kit and I decided on the focus. Each of the kits should be ready to "bolt on" as soon as you get it, and each comes with its own tuning devices so that you should be more than adequately prepared to tune the car. I will say that the Stage 3 kit is going to be a monster, so if you're planning on running Adam Bloom-type boost be warned that your engine may need more stuff...but for the standard 10-11 psi it should be fine.

NO PRICES WILL BE POSTED HERE. I'm not here to advertise. I'm here for feedback from the guys who know what they're talking about. And even those of us who don't know can stare at all the pretty letters and words.

Without further adieu...I present the Ludespeed Impreza turbo kits:

Stage One: "Baby's first boost"
T/3 Turbo
External Wastegate with an adjustable 3-5 psi spring
Hyper R SFC
2 1/2 inch mandrel bent down pipe with flex pipe
2 1/2 inch high-flow stainless cat (replaces both factory cats)
2 1/4 up-pipe to turbo
K&N cone filter
All oil lines and fittings
All water lines and fittings
Autometer Boost Gauge
All silicone hoses
Bracket to secure the MAF to the chassis to reduce vibration
All pipes are aluminized and ready to go for cold weather
Bosch BOV

Basically, Stage One is the nice and easy kit. Max boost would be around 5psi, it should engage at right around 3K rpms (with a good kick might I add) and your engine should be none the worse for wear. The only tuning necessary is the boost level and the simple fuel controller to make sure you're not running too lean/too rich. We designed this one for the guy who desperately wants boost without having to empty his bank account (or at least without having to sell a kidney.) Simple, fast, and fun.

Stage Two: "I break for WRXs...to catch up"
T/3 Turbo
External Wastegate with an adjustable 5-7 psi spring
Apex'i S-AFC
2 1/2 inch mandrel bent down pipe with flex pipe
2 1/2 inch high-flow stainless cat (replaces both factory cats)
2 1/4 up-pipe to turbo
K&N cone filter
All oil lines and fittings
All water lines and fittings
Autometer Boost Gauge
All silicone hoses
Bracket to secure the MAF to the chassis to reduce vibration
All pipes are aluminized and ready to go for cold weather
Blitz BOV
OEM Style 3 x 6 x 15 Top-Mount Intercooler (Cartech core)
Walbro In-tank High Flow Fuel Pump

This kit is your everyday, typical top mounted turbo kit. It's got a sizable intercooler, loud BOV, fuel pump, and an AFC for tuning purposes. This will give a very nice kit...similar to several "Stage Two" kits out there and extremely upgradable. I don't have to go too much into detail with this one...it's a tried and true type setup.

Stage Three: "Don't blink"
T/04B Turbo
External Wastegate with an adjustable 7-9 psi spring
Apexi S-AFC Fuel Computer
2 1/2 inch mandrel bent down pipe with flex pipe
2 1/2 inch high-flow stainless cat
2 1/4 up-pipe to turbo
Blitz cone filter
All oil lines and fittings
All water lines and fittings
Autometer Boost Gauge
All silicone hoses
Bracket to secure the MAF to the chassis to reduce vibration
All pipes are aluminized and ready to go for cold weather
Blitz BOV
Large front mounted intercooler and piping (probably a Spearco core, 3.5 x 13 x 17)
In-tank High Flow Walbro Fuel Pump
Cartech Adjustable Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator
Apexi ITC

This is the big one. For a very reasonable price you're looking at a kit that should be able to run 13s all day (provided your clutch isn't toast) and serve as a quick if quirky daily driver. We decided to kill the T04E in favor of the T3/T04B so it will be more "street friendly." Plus, it's bigger. All I can say with this kit is that if you're interested, you probably know more than me.

Options we're making available:
Upgraded Turbo: T/3-T04B (for racers)
Stainless Steel Up & Down Piping (for the rust belt)
Stainless Steel Intake Piping (same)
Powdercoated Intake Piping (pretty colors!)
5-7 psi wastegate spring (if you want it...)
7-9 psi wastegate spring (if you want it...)
Greddy EGT Gauge - $180 (a nicer gauge)
3" cat-back with muffler - $500 (for stage 2/3)
2.5" cat-back with muffler - $425 (for stage 1)

Ludespeed's website, for reference, is http://turbo_25rs.tripod.com/ for the Impreza turbo kit.

The prices on there are NOT accurate for the groupbuy. See the classifieds for more detail.

Feel free to give your thoughts and opinions.
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Old 11-14-2000, 08:18 PM   #2
Eric SS
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Member#: 1914
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Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: 2013 335i, 2011 G37 coupe
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS w/ EJ22T
swap and N20. gone. : (

Post

I would like injectors with the stage two and three kits. Not sure if they are needed though.

Also, a chip to work with the MY00-01 MAP sensor is a must.

Eric
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Old 11-14-2000, 08:23 PM   #3
RidinLow
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1995 325i
Arctic Gray

Post

Is a chip really needed, or is that just something JC Sports does to richen the mixture?

I'd also like the option of no electronics & no gauges since some of us already have AFC's & EGT gauges.
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Old 11-14-2000, 08:26 PM   #4
Rich L
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Member#: 961
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: near Atco(NJ) 13.566@100.64-
Vehicle:
1999 RS-Tw/ CobraMAF
Custom Rallispec kit/IC#1

Question

ok, so I own a 99 rs...

If I put an aftermarket intake... I get problems with a lean engine running like crap over 5000rpm.

So whats gonna happen if I went with the stage 1 turbo? Theres no fuel management with it right?!
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Old 11-14-2000, 08:27 PM   #5
Eric SS
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Member#: 1914
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Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: 2013 335i, 2011 G37 coupe
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS w/ EJ22T
swap and N20. gone. : (

Post

I'm pretty sure you actually need the chip because the MAP sensor can't read anything more than like 2lbs. of bost or something.

Eric
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Old 11-14-2000, 08:27 PM   #6
RidinLow
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1995 325i
Arctic Gray

Post

Hyper R SFC is the fuel management for the stage 1. Should be ok in bypassing the lean running at 5000 rpm, but you'll probably be blowing MAF's.
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Old 11-14-2000, 08:41 PM   #7
Overtime
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Talking

OK...let me try and field a few of these questions...

First off, injectors shouldn't be needed until you cross that 10psi line. Obviously, they'd be great to have for a Stage Three type kit, but ideally, if you're going to get that big a kit, you're going to work on some engine internals.

The main focus of the GB is the bolt-on "easy" boost of the Stage 1 and Stage 2. The Stage 3 was created because some owners want maximum tunability and customizing for their car. Hence, there's the kit.

RidinLow-the chip is JC Sports's way of richening the fuel mixture. I don't know what it does. It doesn't really matter. The issue here is that it's unnecessary for this kit AFAIK. And yes, there is an option to take away some of the tuning devices and receive credit.

As for the 2000/01 problem, Tom wants to do an MAP checkvalve. I suggested the cheap, easy way (voltage clamp.) He'll let me know soon enough what the kits will include. Regardless, it WILL work with the MAP. The MAP doesn't like boost, but there's always ways to get around the MAP, and they've been used before on other cars.

Finally, with the fuel management...the SFC should do fine to tune your car. The problem with the 99 MAFs has more to do with vibration than anything. Hence, the bracket. The reason that some intakes (ie WeaponR) bust MAFs is because they shake the hot film MAF, which is much weaker than the 98 hot wire (or do I have the film/wire thing confused? i think I have it right.) The MAF hates that, so it blows up. Heck, you don't even need an intake for it to blow. It's busted with stock intakes too.

Anyway, that's believe to be the source of the fragility. Naturally, I dunno, but every precaution will be taken, and this kit is running fine on a 99. The problem will be solved in the kit, Tom has assured me of it.
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Old 11-14-2000, 08:45 PM   #8
Eric SS
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Member#: 1914
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: 2013 335i, 2011 G37 coupe
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS w/ EJ22T
swap and N20. gone. : (

Post

Thanks..

As long as the Tubo and BOV makes lots of noise I will be happy. I love the whinning of a turbo spooling up...

Eric
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Old 11-14-2000, 08:55 PM   #9
RidinLow
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1995 325i
Arctic Gray

Post

You could always get that plastic intercooler with the blowoff valve speaker if that's all you want.
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Old 11-14-2000, 08:55 PM   #10
Eric SS
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Member#: 1914
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: 2013 335i, 2011 G37 coupe
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS w/ EJ22T
swap and N20. gone. : (

Post

hehe... That is so pathetic it makes me laugh..What was that web address again???

Eric
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Old 11-14-2000, 09:10 PM   #11
Fitz
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'07 335xi, '07 ZX6R
SV650 Race Bike

Post

Okay Overtime.... you have my attention and the attention of my bank account. I just need to you to nail down money levels for the different kits as well as the options (stainless pipes etc...). Let me know.

Thanks,
Fitz

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Old 11-14-2000, 09:12 PM   #12
Eric SS
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Member#: 1914
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: 2013 335i, 2011 G37 coupe
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS w/ EJ22T
swap and N20. gone. : (

Post

Check out the Classifieds..

Eric
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Old 11-15-2000, 10:10 AM   #13
copec
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Member#: 1808
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Ogden, USA
Post

I'm interested, but you know (I'm sure you do) with a digital boost controller (a fuzzy logic one at that) and a 3" exhaust all the way back from the turbo, boost lag shouldn't even exist, and full boost could probably be made between 1500-2000 rpms.

If you had a kit that was this:
T/04B Turbo (or a turbo that could run 12psi-9psi tapered curve, smaller turbo with less lag)
External solenoid controlled wastegate
Apexi S-AFC Fuel Computer
Apexi ITC
Apexi S-AVC-R
Autometer Boost Gauge
EGT active fast gauge
3" inch mandrel bent down pipe with flex pipe
3" inch high-flow stainless cat
3" cat back exhaust utilized straight through N1 design mufler
2 1/4 up-pipe to turbo
Blitz cone filter
All oil lines and fittings
All water lines and fittings
All silicone hoses
Bracket to secure the MAF to the chassis to reduce vibration
All pipes are aluminized and ready to go for cold weather
Blitz BOV
Large front mounted intercooler and piping or
Large Top mount intercooler with piping for less money
In-tank High Flow Walbro Fuel Pump
Cartech Adjustable Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator

boost set tapered curve from 12psi-9psi (0-2000rpm to redline)

I would buy a kit like that, you dont need twin turbos to run a tapered boost curve, just a kit designed to minimize turbo lag more...but I dont want to fabricate my own, I might buy your uppipe though if I end up doing that :-)

I am aware that I could buy your kit and add that stuff after the fact, but I want a bolt on kit that does that.
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Old 11-15-2000, 01:16 PM   #14
efoo
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Member#: 80
Join Date: Jul 1999
Post

i don't really consider myself qualified, but here's my 2 cents, since I have a turbo:

* I was told Tial wastegates are #1 by a lot of people I asked for opinions before I bought my turbo. What brand wastegates are these?

* will the supplied lines have real fittings (aeroquip? AN-) on the ends? I hope so. Your fingers will thank you.

* any brackets to brace the turbo and not let the exhaust headers take all the weight?

* oil cooler?

* heat shield over turbo? I love mine - can hold my hand 3" away from the exhaust housing and not feel a thing after a hard run of boost.

* what's holding up the intercooler besides the intercooler piping? I'd like to see a bracket going from the transmission or engine block to the intercooler

* I think you need bigger injectors for a Stage II/III kit, but then you need some way to control them. I've gone TEC-II; you guys might want to try other stuff, but I personally think using a RRFPR is a real hack and is not the best way to solve the problem of getting more fuel to the engine under boost.

Anyways, feel free to nitpick as you see fit.

-Edwin
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Old 11-15-2000, 08:40 PM   #15
TR
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Member#: 28
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: now w/100% less turbo
Vehicle:
1997 M3 Sedan
Blue

Post

OT, Efoo's ?'s are quite good. would you be able to clarify some of the things EFoo mentioned? Especially regarding AN fittings and how the turbo and IC are mounted.
Thanks...
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Old 11-16-2000, 12:27 AM   #16
Overtime
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Post

Copec-

I got your answer in the other thread.

Any more thoughts on this? I was hoping for more of a response from the guys who have been there, done that...
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Old 11-16-2000, 04:30 AM   #17
Overtime
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Member#: 1346
Join Date: Apr 2000
Thumbs up

Yeah, I'll go ahead and forward the questions to Tom and see what I can get in terms of answers.

For that last question (re: Stage 3) the Stage 3 kit is sold as a bolt-on, but both Tom and I agreed that if you're buying that kit you're not going to leave it alone. Most people want the option of being able to go TEC-II, Haltech, Link, whatever...so the system is open to that whenever you get the money to buy engine management.

For Stage 2, the kit should run perfectly fine as is. It's a bolt-on turbo kit that, as long as you run the expected boost (5-7psi), will run fine without anything else. Turning up the boost, of course, means that you have to compensate for it. Really, that's just like any kit.

I'll have answers for you as soon as I can. Have a good one.
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Old 11-16-2000, 05:03 AM   #18
TR
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Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: now w/100% less turbo
Vehicle:
1997 M3 Sedan
Blue

Post

thanks OT! I am really getting a good feeling about this kit, so please keep the info flowing.
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Old 11-16-2000, 02:15 PM   #19
Overtime
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Post

No sweat. I'll have the questions answered by the time I get back this weekend, hopefully, and then we can commence with the ordering.

I too have a good feeling about this kit. Here's a guy who loves the Impreza but doesn't know if the market will take an Impreza line. This turbo GB will go a long way in determining whether he develops a header back system, N/A mods, etc. for the EJ25.

I'm looking forward to getting another tuner involved in the Impreza aftermarket just as much as some of you are looking forward to getting boost.
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Old 11-16-2000, 06:33 PM   #20
shabby
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Ontario, Canada
Vehicle:
93 Eagle Talon AWD
Black

Post

I really suggest some larger injectors(how big are the stock ones?) for the 2nd and 3rd stage kits, last thing you want to do is run lean and burn the internals.
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Old 11-16-2000, 07:03 PM   #21
Gerry
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Location: Long Island
Post

I also think the pipes and the cat should be 3"....on the stage 2 and 3..Also you sould look into financing too....i'm sure you would sell alot more kits....Just my 2cents
Gerry
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Old 11-16-2000, 07:31 PM   #22
shabby
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Vehicle:
93 Eagle Talon AWD
Black

Post

Bigger isnt always better, majority of bpu supras(400 rwhp) run with a 3 inch exhaust, and an impreza with a 5-10psi turbo does not make anywhere near 400rwhp.

Remember that a 3 inch exhaust will cool the exhaust gas quicker than a 2.5 inch exhaust. Now we want the exhaust gas to be hot(light) instead of cold(heavy) when going through the exhaust as it'll move faster than colder exhaust gas.

I doubt that a ej25 with a turbo will take advantage of a 3 inch catback, a 2.5 inch would be better imo.


[This message has been edited by shabby (edited November 16, 2000).]
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Old 11-19-2000, 06:40 AM   #23
Overtime
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Member#: 1346
Join Date: Apr 2000
Thumbs up

The answers, as promised, direct from Tom Coleman of Ludespeed:

Re: Oil return line position?
The oil return kinda has to be where it is. There is VERY limited space in which to do the oil return. And if the return hole is not above the oil level, it won't drain properly.

Re: vacuum line setup
The valve cover breather turbes wil lbe replaced. An oil catch can will be an option for like $135.

Re: RRFPR in Stage 2
The RRFPR can be an option. If it is needed on the intercooled kit to run 7-8psi, then it will be included, and that just might be the case. In fact, I am now adding the RRFPR to the STAGE II for $175 more.

Re: payment method
Payment can be made through money order, cashier's check or through paypal.com. The deposits will be 1/2 of the final price.

Re: estimated timeframe
The kits will be shipped within 2 months at the latest after I recieve the deposit. If I am not swamped, it won't take that long.

Re: emissions for Stage 3
As far as legality, I can't promise anything. I don't think it will be legal but it can be tweaked to pass emissions. NOT Cali CARB legal

Re: Leagcy fit?
I don't know about the Legacy. If someone is willing to try it, I will buy the kit back if it does not fit.

Re: wastegate brand
Wastegate will be Turbonetics Deltagate

Re: lines with clips/fittings at end
Not sure I understand the question about the fittings on the lines

Re: turbo bracket
There will DEFNITELY be a bracket to hold the weight of the turbo. It will bolt to the transmission with 2 LARGE bolts.

Re: oil cooler
Oil cooler will be an option. Whatever it costs me. I guess about $300

Re: turbo heat shield
I can make a heat shield for anyone that wants one for $30

Re: intercooler support
The intercooler will be held by 2 brackets that bolt to where the air filter box used to bolt. Similar to the Minnam kit.

Re: full custom kits
As far as custom options, anything can be discussed. I will consider anything


There you go. Any questions/answers/statements, feel free to ask. Oh, and the thread to join the groupbuy is in the private classifieds forum. A direct link is here:
http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Forum2/HTML/003029.html

Have a good one, and remember to sign up!
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