*Warning* to all you guys with big rims/skinny tires...

ColinL · 05-08-2000, 01:04 PM

The roads must be bad there!

If it were me, on our local roads my first impression would be that the tire was a manufacturing defect and Toyo owes you a free replacement.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

rao · 05-08-2000, 01:06 PM

It will be intersting to see if Toyo gives you a new tire. I tend to agree with Colin that it sounds like a defect.

Jason · 05-08-2000, 01:11 PM

I heard many side wall bubble from Toyo tires. Seems like it should be replaced under warranty.

Opie · 05-08-2000, 01:18 PM

I've got a friend with an Acura GS-R that had Toyo's on it, he had the sidewall bubbling problem and ended up sending all 4 tires to Toyo for "evaluation", they ended up giving him some lame reasoning as to how he caused the tires to fail. I suspect that there is a serious defect with Toyo's but I doubt you'll get anything out of them! Good Luck.

RSRacer · 05-08-2000, 01:28 PM

Hmmm... I am running 195/50-16 Dunlop 9000's on my stock 99 2.5RS rims. I have run these for a year now, having replaced them once already, and I haven't had any problems like this. I drive hard on the track (Summit Point, WV), and even though I sometimes get some funny wear (dang concrete patches), I have never experienced any problems with the sidewalls. Could pressure have something to do with it? I wonder...

kelley nelson · 05-08-2000, 01:57 PM

I have had some pretty big hits and lots of hard driving on 205/50/R16 T1's, but no bubbling here.

suber · 05-08-2000, 02:27 PM

The difference in sidewall height between 50 & 55 series is less than 1/2 in. (actually less than .4 in theory, probably even less practically).
Shouldn't make that much difference in tire life unless you don't excercise reasonable care to avoid hitting sharp edged potholes.
Maybe the Toyos DO have construction defects..

paultg · 05-08-2000, 02:29 PM

Hey guys,
I saw the bubble first hand, and it is very strange. It is bumpy where we live, but if you take it easy (which Edwin does) you are usually able to miss them, or not hit very hard. I have hit a hole when I was messing around, and messed up my alignment, but no bubbles on my stock RE92's. And I got the alignment done under warranty because the car was less than a year old.
My first thought was that Edwin recieved the tire with a bubble, and did not see it. But I do not know how? It looked like the typical, opps, I hit a big hole. Not like a factory tire defect, that should not be sold.
I do not expect him to get anything from Toyo either, but it is very strange that others have had similar problems.
Paul G.

ColinL · 05-08-2000, 02:42 PM

Bubbles in the sidewall mean broken belts, regardless of the cause. If folks see this routinely in Toyo tires (Jason, Opie) then to me that's one less reason to buy Toyo.

RSRacer · 05-08-2000, 02:47 PM

And one more reason to try out Dunlop SP Sport 9000's!!! Please give 'em a try - I did, and I have loved them ever since, despite their somewhat marginal price (actually, they have gotten cheaper in some sizes!). And if you are interested in looks, they look SO good on the 2.5RS, with a nice lowered stance, and... oh, sorry, got off on a tangent there!

kelley nelson · 05-08-2000, 03:28 PM

I'll take ugly and grippy every day of the week and twice on Sunday (That's when the autocrosses are!)

That said, I had already been thinking about getting a set of the SP9000 to replace my worn out Toyos. They were very highly recommended by another autocrosser as a great street tire.

MPREZYA · 05-08-2000, 06:47 PM

I got the 9000's and love them (practically a steal for $105 a tire at tire rack in 195/50/16 or $85 from discount tire direct).
Check a pic of them on my car with Legacy GT wheels: www.scic.homepage.com/mprezya.html
Rich
(BTW: Awesome in the wet).

efoo · 05-09-2000, 12:30 AM

I run 205/50/16s, and at the SCCA NHIS auto-x on Sunday, paultg and I discovered that the sidewall on one of my Toyo Proxes T1-S had bubbled. I live in Cambridge, and essentially, our roads suck. I must have hit a pothole really hard and split the sidewall one night.

Being somewhat naive, I ran the auto-x anyway. I got in 5 very fun runs of tire squealing, sidewall scuffing action, drove home, and reminded myself to have it looked at today.

I just got done shelling out $180 for a new tire. The tire shop owner was amazed that the tire survived an autocross in that condition. That I didn't have a blowout on the way back home is pretty nice too.

He's going to call Toyo and have the tire shipped to them for analysis - it only had 1000 miles on it. But he says he sees at least 6-12 Saabs a month (they also run 205/50/16s) with split sidewalls too. I don't know if I'll get a refund under warranty, but I suspect it's unlikely.

So, anyways, I'm suggesting you might want to think twice before running big wheels and/or low profile tires in an urban area. I think I might switch back to 205/55/16 to be safe once I go through this set of Toyos.

-Edwin

Pinoy · 05-09-2000, 03:22 AM

I run 225/35/18 Toyo Proxes and they haven't given me any problems yet. I hit a Pothole on the 405 FWY at 80MPH and bent my front right rim. The tires were in perfect condition. The rim has since been replaced and I currently have 17627 miles on my Proxes. I did however have a bubbling problem with my BFGoodrich Euro Radials 215/40/17 on my GSR. That tire was replaced at no cost by the manufacturer, through Americas Tire. Hopefully I won't have any problems with the Proxes.

[This message has been edited by Pinoy (edited May 09, 2000).]

Thug · 05-09-2000, 07:12 AM

The SP8000's actually make a better auto-x tire than the SP9000's. The 8000's have better dry traction AND they are about $45 per tire cheaper! Although they are getting hard to find. The only place the 9000's beats them is in wet traction, but we have plenty of that anyways. =)

ColinL · 05-09-2000, 07:57 AM

My local folks have said much the same, never buying another set of SP9000's. Dry traction is not all that impressive, they say.

RidinLow · 05-09-2000, 08:14 AM

Even Tire Rack's own tests put the SP8000 way in front of the SP9000's in dry handling. Not sure why they classify the 9000 as a Max Performance tire & the 8000 as an Ultra-High Performance one though.

~G

kelley nelson · 05-09-2000, 08:51 AM

For an autocross application I would absolutely agree, go SP8000.

For street I think I may just do SP9000 for the extra security. I already have some some Max perf tires for competition.

webkris · 05-09-2000, 08:54 AM

I also saw it first hand, and I too voiced that it may be a tire defect. It was a bubble in the top center of the sidewall - not near the tread, and no scuff marks around it (to suggest that Edwin didn't hit anything...) Did you see the inside of the sidewall Edwin? Was there any visable damage? - Kris

05-09-2000, 12:30 AM	#13
efoo Scooby Specialist Member#: 80 Join Date: Jul 1999	Warning to all you guys with big rims/skinny tires... I run 205/50/16s, and at the SCCA NHIS auto-x on Sunday, paultg and I discovered that the sidewall on one of my Toyo Proxes T1-S had bubbled. I live in Cambridge, and essentially, our roads suck. I must have hit a pothole really hard and split the sidewall one night. Being somewhat naive, I ran the auto-x anyway. I got in 5 very fun runs of tire squealing, sidewall scuffing action, drove home, and reminded myself to have it looked at today. I just got done shelling out $180 for a new tire. The tire shop owner was amazed that the tire survived an autocross in that condition. That I didn't have a blowout on the way back home is pretty nice too. He's going to call Toyo and have the tire shipped to them for analysis - it only had 1000 miles on it. But he says he sees at least 6-12 Saabs a month (they also run 205/50/16s) with split sidewalls too. I don't know if I'll get a refund under warranty, but I suspect it's unlikely. So, anyways, I'm suggesting you might want to think twice before running big wheels and/or low profile tires in an urban area. I think I might switch back to 205/55/16 to be safe once I go through this set of Toyos. -Edwin

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05-08-2000, 01:04 PM	#1
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	The roads must be bad there! If it were me, on our local roads my first impression would be that the tire was a manufacturing defect and Toyo owes you a free replacement. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

05-08-2000, 01:06 PM	#2
rao Scooby Specialist Member#: 52 Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Naperville, IL Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT 98 BMW 540i LS2/T56	It will be intersting to see if Toyo gives you a new tire. I tend to agree with Colin that it sounds like a defect.

05-08-2000, 01:11 PM	#3
Jason Scooby Specialist Member#: 105 Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Fremont, CA 94538 Vehicle: 2000 Legacy GT Ltd WHT	I heard many side wall bubble from Toyo tires. Seems like it should be replaced under warranty.

05-08-2000, 01:18 PM	#4
Opie Floresbian Moderator Member#: 470 Join Date: Oct 1999 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Riverview, Florida - U.S.A. Vehicle: 2013 BRZ, 2011 Forester, '04 Chev 2500HD	I've got a friend with an Acura GS-R that had Toyo's on it, he had the sidewall bubbling problem and ended up sending all 4 tires to Toyo for "evaluation", they ended up giving him some lame reasoning as to how he caused the tires to fail. I suspect that there is a serious defect with Toyo's but I doubt you'll get anything out of them! Good Luck.

05-08-2000, 01:28 PM	#5
RSRacer Scooby Newbie Member#: 1302 Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Vienna, VA, USA	Hmmm... I am running 195/50-16 Dunlop 9000's on my stock 99 2.5RS rims. I have run these for a year now, having replaced them once already, and I haven't had any problems like this. I drive hard on the track (Summit Point, WV), and even though I sometimes get some funny wear (dang concrete patches), I have never experienced any problems with the sidewalls. Could pressure have something to do with it? I wonder...

05-08-2000, 01:57 PM	#6
kelley nelson NASIOC Supporter Member#: 135 Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: NJ	I have had some pretty big hits and lots of hard driving on 205/50/R16 T1's, but no bubbling here.

05-08-2000, 02:27 PM	#7
suber Scooby Specialist Member#: 333 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Middlesex county, MA, USA Vehicle: 98 not a Leg 2.5GT Quicksilver Metallic	The difference in sidewall height between 50 & 55 series is less than 1/2 in. (actually less than .4 in theory, probably even less practically). Shouldn't make that much difference in tire life unless you don't excercise reasonable care to avoid hitting sharp edged potholes. Maybe the Toyos DO have construction defects..

05-08-2000, 02:29 PM	#8
paultg NASIOC Supporter Member#: 437 Join Date: Oct 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Londonderry, NH Vehicle: '91 Miata MX5 (Red) '09 Impreza OBS (Blk/Gry)	Hey guys, I saw the bubble first hand, and it is very strange. It is bumpy where we live, but if you take it easy (which Edwin does) you are usually able to miss them, or not hit very hard. I have hit a hole when I was messing around, and messed up my alignment, but no bubbles on my stock RE92's. And I got the alignment done under warranty because the car was less than a year old. My first thought was that Edwin recieved the tire with a bubble, and did not see it. But I do not know how? It looked like the typical, opps, I hit a big hole. Not like a factory tire defect, that should not be sold. I do not expect him to get anything from Toyo either, but it is very strange that others have had similar problems. Paul G.

05-08-2000, 02:42 PM	#9
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	Bubbles in the sidewall mean broken belts, regardless of the cause. If folks see this routinely in Toyo tires (Jason, Opie) then to me that's one less reason to buy Toyo.

05-08-2000, 02:47 PM	#10
RSRacer Scooby Newbie Member#: 1302 Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Vienna, VA, USA	And one more reason to try out Dunlop SP Sport 9000's!!! Please give 'em a try - I did, and I have loved them ever since, despite their somewhat marginal price (actually, they have gotten cheaper in some sizes!). And if you are interested in looks, they look SO good on the 2.5RS, with a nice lowered stance, and... oh, sorry, got off on a tangent there!

05-08-2000, 03:28 PM	#11
kelley nelson NASIOC Supporter Member#: 135 Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: NJ	I'll take ugly and grippy every day of the week and twice on Sunday (That's when the autocrosses are!) That said, I had already been thinking about getting a set of the SP9000 to replace my worn out Toyos. They were very highly recommended by another autocrosser as a great street tire.

05-08-2000, 06:47 PM	#12
MPREZYA SCIC Moderator Member#: 85 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: www.themonkeystrunk.com	I got the 9000's and love them (practically a steal for $105 a tire at tire rack in 195/50/16 or $85 from discount tire direct). Check a pic of them on my car with Legacy GT wheels: www.scic.homepage.com/mprezya.html Rich (BTW: Awesome in the wet).

05-09-2000, 03:22 AM	#14
Pinoy Scooby Newbie Member#: 400 Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: San Pedro Vehicle: 1990 300ZXTT Black	I run 225/35/18 Toyo Proxes and they haven't given me any problems yet. I hit a Pothole on the 405 FWY at 80MPH and bent my front right rim. The tires were in perfect condition. The rim has since been replaced and I currently have 17627 miles on my Proxes. I did however have a bubbling problem with my BFGoodrich Euro Radials 215/40/17 on my GSR. That tire was replaced at no cost by the manufacturer, through Americas Tire. Hopefully I won't have any problems with the Proxes. [This message has been edited by Pinoy (edited May 09, 2000).]

05-09-2000, 07:12 AM	#15
Thug Choke Artist Moderator Member#: 603 Join Date: Dec 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Nashua, NH	The SP8000's actually make a better auto-x tire than the SP9000's. The 8000's have better dry traction AND they are about $45 per tire cheaper! Although they are getting hard to find. The only place the 9000's beats them is in wet traction, but we have plenty of that anyways. =)

05-09-2000, 07:57 AM	#16
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	My local folks have said much the same, never buying another set of SP9000's. Dry traction is not all that impressive, they say.

05-09-2000, 08:14 AM	#17
RidinLow Scooby Guru Member#: 329 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 1995 325i Arctic Gray	Even Tire Rack's own tests put the SP8000 way in front of the SP9000's in dry handling. Not sure why they classify the 9000 as a Max Performance tire & the 8000 as an Ultra-High Performance one though. ~G

05-09-2000, 08:51 AM	#18
kelley nelson NASIOC Supporter Member#: 135 Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: NJ	For an autocross application I would absolutely agree, go SP8000. For street I think I may just do SP9000 for the extra security. I already have some some Max perf tires for competition.

05-09-2000, 08:54 AM	#19
webkris NASIOC Supporter Member#: 70 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Long Beach, CA Vehicle: I sold WRX to buy Dodge Neon Rally Car	I also saw it first hand, and I too voiced that it may be a tire defect. It was a bubble in the top center of the sidewall - not near the tread, and no scuff marks around it (to suggest that Edwin didn't hit anything...) Did you see the inside of the sidewall Edwin? Was there any visable damage? - Kris