Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday October 30, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-29-2003, 10:56 AM   #1
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default F1 tire tizzy...Bridgestone vs. Michelin vs. the FIA

You knew this was coming....

<<Tyre controversy set to rock Formula 1

Rule change could hurt Williams and McLaren's title chances



The FIA is planning to change the way it measures tyre width


The world championship hopes of Williams and McLaren appear to have suffered a massive blow with tyre supplier Michelin set to be forced to scrap its currently dominant tyres in time for the next round of the title fight in Italy.

It is understood that motor racing's governing body, the FIA, has written a letter to all the teams this week claiming that it will change the way it measures tyres from the next grand prix at Monza on September 14.

In the letter, the FIA explains that the previous tread width limit of 270mm for the front tyres will now be measured after the race rather than before it, as had been the previous practice.

It is believed that this new ruling will hurt Michelin more than Bridgestone because its tyres have previously used the 270mm limit to the maximum.

Confirming the FIA's decision, Williams' chief operations engineer Sam Michael told AUTOSPORT: "The FIA have changed the way they measure the front tyre contact patch. They will now be measuring the contact patch new as well as worn. We are reviewing the consequences of that."

The new ruling is believed to have come after complaints from Michelin's rivals who claim that when the French tyre manufacturers' rubber wears down during a race the tread width of the tyre exceeds the 270mm limit. There may also be instances that the tread width exceeds the limit when the tyre is running at speed, although this is difficult to prove.

Although Michelin is expected to fight the decision, because it claims the tyre design has been fully legal since it was first used at the 2001 San Marino Grand Prix, it could be forced to build completely new designs for Monza.

There may not be enough time for Michelin to prepare these tyres in time for the pre-Monza test next week which means Williams and McLaren could race with tyres at the Italian event which have not been tested before.

A spokesman for the FIA said: "A letter was sent to Formula 1 teams regarding tread width, but we cannot say any more at the moment.">>
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2003, 11:13 AM   #2
elgorey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4374
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: VIRginia
Vehicle:
06 Titan,99,94 SM
06 nasa spec miata champ

Default

they really need to get these little nitpicks taken care of in the offseason.....
especially when it affects engineering and manufacturing.

mid-season changes just arent good for the sport.
elgorey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2003, 11:39 AM   #3
AndyRoo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 20952
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Baltimore, MD
Vehicle:
MINI & Datsun
BRG & White

Default

hmmm dont like that much.

How badly do they want schumi to win?
AndyRoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2003, 12:19 PM   #4
LordBass
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3266
Join Date: Dec 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Dover, NH
Vehicle:
2006 Jetta 2.0T 6MT
2009 Jamis Aurora Elite

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by elgorey
mid-season changes just arent good for the sport.
Especially when we're set up for one of the hottest title fights in recent memory.

lb
www.trancelab.com
LordBass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2003, 12:33 PM   #5
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Here's the quandary:

Michelin, if they have been taking advantage of the rule as specified, with a tire that is in spec some of the time and out of spec some of the time, how do you deal with that?

Perhaps this is why the Michelin runners have been so loath to change tires at many races and further, why the Michelins have such a square shoulder compared to the Bridgestone. Ferrari is running big camber in an effort to get more rubber on the road, while Michelin, with its wider, squarer shoulder can get away with a flatter stance, which means more rubber on the road, and more even tire wear. Bridgestone should stand by their design decision. I think that their quibble (and we KNOW that they instigated this) is that they are being penalized for following the rule to the letter (post-race compliance as well as pre-race), while Michelin is fudging, it would appear.

I don't know if it is as much trying to help Ferrari as it is trying to make sure that nobody has an unfair advantage during these last three critical races. The Michelin, as measured pre-race, has almost a 3 cm width advantage over the Bridgestone. This also means that the B-stone, measured post-race, would still be in compliance with the width specification. The Michelin would not.

I'm not sure how I feel about this rule. The timing is certainly interesting. Perhaps, like NASCAR with its malleability of rules enforcement, the FIA is coming to re-level the playing field, so to speak.

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2003, 12:44 PM   #6
Dr. WOT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3623
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Easton, PA USA
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by elgorey
they really need to get these little nitpicks taken care of in the offseason.....
especially when it affects engineering and manufacturing.

mid-season changes just arent good for the sport.
EXACTLY!! The decision seems sensible, long overdue in fact. But to do this now is to tamper with the course of the season.
Dr. WOT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2003, 01:25 PM   #7
bohica
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 8590
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: seattle
Vehicle:
oh 5 sti & a

Default

So this "new rule" doesn't fall under the concord agrement?

Or are there rules that can be changed like this, without all of the teams approval?
bohica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2003, 02:18 PM   #8
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by bohica
So this "new rule" doesn't fall under the concord agrement?

Or are there rules that can be changed like this, without all of the teams approval?
As I understand it, regulations that pertain to hard and fast measurements, part of the "formula," as it were, are simple matters of interpretation. Michelin could well argue that hey, you weren't measuring them after the race until now, so why start now?

But I think it's the same thing as when a car's overweight. It either is or it isn't. The tire should be x. If it isn't, that's wrong. The problem is that the FIA has suddenly said "Hey, we're going to use this other measurement that we should have been using all along."

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2003, 01:53 AM   #9
bohica
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 8590
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: seattle
Vehicle:
oh 5 sti & a

Default

Quote:
The problem is that the FIA has suddenly said "Hey, we're going to use this other measurement that we should have been using all along."
Oh, I agree. I dont have a problem with rules. Just dont change them mid stream. Michelin has run this tire since Imola 2001.

Now it's suspect?
bohica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2003, 03:37 AM   #10
shoracer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25247
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: I B Insane PGR2 XBOXLive
Vehicle:
0799 S60R RT/SC
Red/Purple B***H

Default

and, to think bridgestone was going to come out with a tire like Michelin.
shoracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2003, 10:13 AM   #11
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

Apparently, the rule regarding width applies to the tires when new. And when new, Michelin's tire conforms to the specification. Further, who the heck knows why Bridgestone makes their tire to conform, post-race, as well as pre-race.

Pierre Dupasquier of Michelin says that it is quite impossible for Michelin to make tires that conform to this new ruling (I'd like to wave the BS flag at Michelin at this point, but he has to say that...they have the capability to make tires within a week of the event...), and that the tires for Monza are already made, so leave us alone.

Seems like the FIA is going to lose this one and frankly, should. Bridgestone needs to get its act together, rather than carping about Michelin, IMHO.

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2003, 03:17 PM   #12
RRR-K2
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22365
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Southwest NH
Vehicle:
98 Outback Wagon
2000 Impreza Sedan

Default

--edited for grammer, er, I mean grammar

Personally, I applaud Michelin for having taken advantage of the FIA's poorly written rule. If the FIA wanted to allowed a maxiumum tire width of X before AND after a race then THAT'S THE WAY THEY SHOULD HAVE WRITTEN THE RULE! The FIA shouldn'd penalize Michelin for their mistake.

It's like the winner of a NASCAR race being penalized because his roof is out of spec when they measure it after the race because HE JUMPED ON IT WHEN CELEBRATING!?!

In such a competitive (and often cut-throat) series as F1 teams will try everything to gain the slightest advantage, and to me, that's what F1 has always been about, innovation and creative thinking/engineering.

Why do you think Rodger Penske has almost always been a dominant force in whatever series his teams compete in? Heck, back during the hay-days of the original Trans-Am series there was a rule that stated that "the battery must be visible from the engine compartment." Rodger, knowing that the battery was a a major source of weight that can have a huge affect on the balance of the car (front to rear) mounted the battery in the foot well area of the passanger's side of the car and installed a flap in the fire wall so that you could lift the flap and still "see the battery from the engine compartment!"
__________________
Matt "RRR-K2" Kennedy
www.RockyRoadRacing.com
1996 Subaru Impreza - ProRally Open
1991 Subaru Legacy - RallyCross Production 4WD

Last edited by RRR-K2; 08-30-2003 at 03:24 PM.
RRR-K2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: Tires tire Bridgestone, pirelli, michelin, goodyear jrodela06 SCIC Private Classifieds 150 11-09-2009 09:58 PM
The FIA Needs Your Help to Fix F1... Ferg Motorsports 9 07-07-2005 10:12 AM
Do you think that the FIA is ruining F1? Kwyjibo Motorsports 32 07-06-2005 10:51 PM
Bridgestone RE070 vs. Michelin PS2 triguy Tire & Wheel 9 04-28-2005 02:54 AM
Tire sidewalls Bridgestone S-03 vs RE070 rich728 Tire & Wheel 21 08-20-2004 02:14 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.