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Old 09-22-2003, 02:20 AM   #26
GravelRash
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Plus I don't believe that motor oils will have the high pressure additive package that gear oils have...which won't be good for the gears in the long run.
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Old 09-22-2003, 11:04 AM   #27
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Why would it break down faster in a transmission? There is'nt any combustion and it does'nt get that hot. It's a synthetic so it reduces friction more than dino based lubes. And it has also cured my problem and has been fine for over 10k miles. And I put it into a wrx for a friend who has nothing but good things to say about it.
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Old 09-22-2003, 07:09 PM   #28
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Default More fuel for the fire (maybe?)

After reading this thread, and all the others I can find, I am more confused than ever.

One thing I haven't heard, and was looking to confirm: The Auto has a separate filler/check for the front diff. Since the manual doesn't have this, am I to assume that the Transmission oil also lubricates the front differential? Perhaps this is why subaru recommends a GL-5 oil in the tranny.

Also, does the tranny oil also lubricate the center diff? Being that the center diff is limited-slip, does this mean we need friction modifiers in the tranny oil to help the CD work?

It seems that it is a major compromise to find an oil that will work well for an open diff, a limited slip diff, and a synchro-tranny.

After reading the thread on the first page about friction modifiers eating bronze (and assuming they were correct that our synchro's are made of bronze), and listening to countless tales of "I put in synthetic, it worked great for X thousand miles, then started grinding like crazy", I'm wondering if these oils are corroding the synchro's over time, causing them to eventually stop working.

Anybody have over 15K on a synthetic without any problems?
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Old 09-22-2003, 07:28 PM   #29
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Ya lots of people have 15k+ on synth. ask around there

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php
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Old 09-22-2003, 07:48 PM   #30
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fliz: " center diff is limited-slip, does this mean we need friction modifiers in the tranny oil to help the CD work" Not with the viscous differential in the 5 speed. Only the 6 speed shares fluid between the transmission and center differential. The 5 speed has a sealed unit that uses viscosity of the fluid to transfer power, not clutch packs in direct contact.

8Complex: "it's because they're all former-Honda owners complaining that their trans' don't shift like their old cars"
Thats so true
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Old 09-22-2003, 09:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Sanderson
Why would it break down faster in a transmission? There is'nt any combustion and it does'nt get that hot. It's a synthetic so it reduces friction more than dino based lubes. And it has also cured my problem and has been fine for over 10k miles. And I put it into a wrx for a friend who has nothing but good things to say about it.
I didn't know the exact reasons motor oil wasn't good in tranny, so I posted over at bobistheoilguy forums for some backup.

Summary is: Gear oil contains special EP (Extreme Pressure) additives to handle the type of sliding metal and high loads you see very frequently in hypoid diffs. Motor oil does not contain these additives and will allow more metal-metal contact wearing your your gears and tranny more quickly.
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Old 09-23-2003, 03:27 PM   #32
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been using amsoil gear oil for a while and have had no problems with crunchies in my 2000RS. Much of an improvement over what was in there.
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Old 09-23-2003, 03:38 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by moogoob
been using amsoil gear oil for a while and have had no problems with crunchies in my 2000RS. Much of an improvement over what was in there.
the majority of the problems documented are on 02+ wrx's - not rs's and not prior to 02. that's where the area of concern is.

-Jason
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Old 09-23-2003, 04:18 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by drees
Motor oil does not contain these additives and will allow more metal-metal contact wearing your your gears and tranny more quickly.
that sounds reasonable and true, but the thing is, i don't think ANYBODY here is going to come close to actually wearing out the tranny! you know what i'm saying?

it's kind of like telling a wrx owner that he shouldn't keep his tires for more than 11 years, since the rubber degrades with time and becomes unreliable.

jm2c
ken
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Old 09-23-2003, 10:08 PM   #35
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Default specifically....

The highpressure additives in tranny lubes prevent metal to metal contact of the gears in two ways... viscous film (thats the normal way all oils do this) and through the formation of a hard oxide layer on any exposed clean metal surface . This oxide layer prevents galling and severe wear by preventing pressure welding on the microscopic level. I think w/o the specific phosphides/sulfides in tranny lube the TCA (tooth contact area) will rapidly show rough wear.

you might not feel this till its really late...

nick
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Old 09-24-2003, 09:53 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by avatarr


the majority of the problems documented are on 02+ wrx's - not rs's and not prior to 02. that's where the area of concern is.

-Jason
It's the same tranny and these discussions have gone on since 1999.

-Dennis
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Old 09-24-2003, 11:35 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by bluesubie

It's the same tranny and these discussions have gone on since 1999.

-Dennis
maybe the reason i thought this problem applied mostly to the 02+ wrx's is because i spend the majority of my time in the factory forced induction or mid-A forums and most of the people i know have wrx's. i was simply a victim of geographical / demographical circumstance.

-Jason
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Old 09-24-2003, 08:13 PM   #38
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Well they must have done something different since the 03's dont get the clutch shudder recall.
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Old 09-25-2003, 01:51 AM   #39
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I switched to mobil 1 ........No problems and no grind from 1st to second Dont know

I love the way my car shifts now
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Old 09-25-2003, 12:16 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolf8314
I switched to mobil 1 ........No problems and no grind from 1st to second Dont know

I love the way my car shifts now
It's not the 1-2 shift. It's the 2-1 downshift mostly but others have problems downshifting at other intervals. downshifting being the key word.

-Jason
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Old 09-25-2003, 03:40 PM   #41
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I've been on NEO for 1k miles now.. Smoove as buttah.. you have to slow your engagement into 1st and rev, but as long as you do that, no crunchies and the whole rest of the gearbox feels so good its worth it.
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Old 09-25-2003, 04:12 PM   #42
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Back to dino (Castrol 75w90). Went 30k on RP Max gear oil. TO many crunches. The gear box feels better with the dino oil back in. It is so easy to change, that I will stick with dino.
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Old 09-25-2003, 04:35 PM   #43
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why would revving the engine while the clutch is on the floor have any effect whatsoever on getting into the gear?

rev matching with the clutch in should make no difference as far as what the shifter is doing. at this point, with the clutch in, the shifter doesn't "see" the engine at all!



ken
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Old 09-25-2003, 06:20 PM   #44
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So noone has had any problem with changign thier oil and out hearing thier syncros engaging after you shift?? And a tink when coming out of 5th?
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Old 09-25-2003, 07:18 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by ride5000
why would revving the engine while the clutch is on the floor have any effect whatsoever on getting into the gear?

rev matching with the clutch in should make no difference as far as what the shifter is doing. at this point, with the clutch in, the shifter doesn't "see" the engine at all!



ken

While true in "theory", I know from experience that it does make a difference. When I want to get my car into first gear at anything more than a slight roll, I put in the clutch, rev match, engage first, and let it go.

My only explanation is there is still some friction between the shaft and the engine, even when they are separated.
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Old 09-26-2003, 01:45 AM   #46
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I'm a big fan of synthetic motor oil, but after reading several of these threads about syth gear oil I have to say that I am inclined to stick with the stock oil. I just wish I knew what it is!

I mean is it some sort of SOA corporate secret?!

I guess I have been lucky because from day one my WRX has shifted fine -- just like every other MT vehicle I have ever owned or driven. Downshifts into 1rst at any speed up to 25-30 mph (after waiting for the syncros to work). No issues. I must have gotten one of the good ones.

BTW: I wonder how many WRX owners who are having MT trouble bought cars that had been "test" driven? In my case, I got it straight of the truck -- 6 miles on the odometer.

I know the tendency here at NASIOC is to blame the driver -- e.g. they abused their car and/or don't know how to drive. That said, I wonder what percentage of cars with MT problems are owned by first-time MT drivers?

An interesting point was made above about the conflicting lubrication requirements of differentials and MTs with syncros. It does seem to be a tough compromise.
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Old 09-26-2003, 05:41 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by 0260B4U
Well they must have done something different since the 03's dont get the clutch shudder recall.
the clutch shudder is a different issue here...as a car introduced to the US as rally breed..the 02 comes OEM equipped with Exceedy clutches...most perfomance clutches typically take a slightly longer time to heat up than clutches with higher organic compound... many folks have complained therefore Subaru had an "elective recall" on the clutch disc if you complain.


anyways.. let continue on this intresting tranny lube thread
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Old 09-26-2003, 08:18 PM   #48
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What they use?

My subaru uses Motul gear oil

i changed back to stock oil tonight. I cant hear that syncro engaging when I shift into 2nd but the click when I take it out of 5th is still there
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Old 09-27-2003, 08:09 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by 0260B4U
What they use?

My subaru uses Motul gear oil

i changed back to stock oil tonight. I cant hear that syncro engaging when I shift into 2nd but the click when I take it out of 5th is still there
the click out of 5th is normal, and is the reverse lockout mechanism resetting itself. it prevents you from shifting directly from 5th to r without first returning the gearshift selector to neutral.

hth
ken
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Old 09-27-2003, 03:41 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by ride5000


the click out of 5th is normal, and is the reverse lockout mechanism resetting itself. it prevents you from shifting directly from 5th to r without first returning the gearshift selector to neutral.

hth
ken

cool thanks, biut it seems like I never heard it before till i changed my gear oil.
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