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Old 09-13-2003, 06:00 PM   #1
RichQY
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Default Torco Race fuel Concentrate

for people in the southwest where the Monkey Piss gas sells for 2.50 $ per gallon

anyone would consider this?

http://www.torcoracefuels.com/Accelerator.htm

seems a lot cheaper than buying 100 octane.

and easy to store at home.


inputs please
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Old 09-13-2003, 06:31 PM   #2
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I thought about it, but it's significantly more expensive than toluene or xylene. Reading the fine print shows a single can of Torco concentrate boosts 1/4 of a tank of 93 to 106. This means it will take almost a full can to boost a whole STi tank from 91 to 93 octane, if the mixing is linear. At $15/can it ain't so cheap.

With toluene or xylene, you need about 1.25 gal to raise a whole tank of 91 to 93, which costs only about $5 if bought in bulk. (you need more toluene, but it's cheaper, so the results are about the same).

Also, toluene and/or xylene will not damage your car in any way. Premium gas already has 5-10% toluene and/or xylene in it . Adding a little more, especially with some Marvel Mystery oil, is totally harmless.

The torco stuff does not say what's in it, but the only way I can think that it does what it advertises is if it has lots of MMT or other similar organometallic compounds in it. These will destroy the cats and foul the O2 sensor if used long-term. Maybe it doesn't have that stuff, but until Torco lists what is in it, I'm dubious.
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Old 09-13-2003, 07:12 PM   #3
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home depot sell xylene for 9, 87 $ per gallon
not cheap at all...
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Old 09-13-2003, 07:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by RichQY
home depot sell xylene for 9, 87 $ per gallon
not cheap at all...
You can get xylene from Sherman Williams at $6/gal in 5 gal. containers, or at $4/gal in 55 gal. drums.
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Old 09-13-2003, 07:43 PM   #5
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thx.
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Old 09-15-2003, 10:12 AM   #6
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I have run the Torco in my Lightning for track runs with great results. Much easier to use than dealing with the Tolulene/Xlene brew. It really works and is much easier to store. Buy a 6 can case and you can get it for about $11/can. One can will treat two full tanks with no problem.
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Old 09-16-2003, 01:47 PM   #7
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I'm not really sure how you get that Xylene or Toulene are cheaper.

Let's take a for instance.

Let's say, you are buying Xylene (116 Octane) for $4.00 a gallon.
(I've heard of guys paying $6, $7 & $8!)

Our goal, is to get 100 Octane for 10 Gallons of gas (in this instance)

It takes 3.5 Gallons of Xylene (116 x 3.5 = 406) + 6.5 Gallons of 92 (6.5 x 92 = 598) Add 406+598 = 1004 (being total octane of all 10 gallons) Divide thay by the amount of gallons .... (1004 /10 = 100.4 Octane)

So, the xylene at $4, cost you $14, at 5, 6,7 etc... it could go over $24.00

The unleaded torco is like $14 ... much more convenient too ...

Don't get me wrong, I mixed xylene for my WRX for two years, had my very own what seemed like "meth" lab in my garage.

Couldn't stand mixing it .....

Let's see anyone take a 500 + Mile little road trip with 10+ gallons of xylene in the trunk!



The torco stuff.... I bring a six pack with me in my trunk, much easier IMO. (the size of a couple of kleenex boxes)

Here's where I get mine:

http://www.need4speedpower.com
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Old 09-16-2003, 02:41 PM   #8
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I'll email you my spreadsheet if you want.

Maybe I have the mixing of the torco wrong. Somewhere, I read that it took one full can of torco to boost 1/4 tank of 93 octane to 106. I assumed that a "tank" was 20 gal, so 1/4 tank was 5 gal, and that torco cost $14/can.

I then assumed that Xylene cost $4/gal, and is 117 octane.

My target was to boost 91 (what we get her in tucson) to 93.

For a 15.9 gal tank, it takes 14.7 gal of 91 plus 1.2 gal of xylene to yield 93 octane. The total tank cost assuming $1.80/gal premium 91 is $31.30.

If it takes 0.25 gal of torco to boost 5 gal of 93 to 106, then the effective "octane" of the torco is about 350. This will all work if the amount of torco you use is linear, meaning you get half the octane boost if you use half as much torco.

I find that I will need 0.12 gal of torco (about half a can) to raise 91 to 93. If torco is $14/can, then the cost of the tank is $35.26.

All these calculations were done with a spreadsheet I wrote.

Torco would have to cost $7 a can for it to be the same price as xylene per tank, if I have the mix ratio right.

If I have that wrong, then please tell me what the right mixing is, meaning how much torco boosts what octane gas to what new octane? Then I can re-calculate the cost.
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Old 09-16-2003, 02:47 PM   #9
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I think I still have a can of Torco left. I will check the label tonight for the exact mix ratio.
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Old 09-16-2003, 08:42 PM   #10
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"The idea is to add 32oz of concentrate to 10-12 gallons of 92 octane, and you'll net approximately 103 Octane... of Race Gas! "
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Old 09-16-2003, 09:08 PM   #11
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No, it's definitely to 10 gallons ... that's what it says on torco's website ....

They use 93 as their base though, and 104 as a total when mixed with those quantities ......
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Old 09-16-2003, 10:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth2000
No, it's definitely to 10 gallons ... that's what it says on torco's website ....

They use 93 as their base though, and 104 as a total when mixed with those quantities ......
Where?

This is the Torco page about Accellerator.

And it doesn't say 10 gal. anywhere. It gives no mixing info at all. I found others on the web who quoted widely varying numbers. Anyone have info directly off the can?

Edit:

I looked at need4speedpower.com

It says torco "treats" 10 gal of fuel. It also says you get "up to" 104 octane when proper mixing instructions are followed. This does not mean 1 can added to 10 gal gives 104 octane. It might mean this, but octane booster manufacturers are notoriously optimistic about the performance of their product. Given the actual Torco site says nothing, I'd like to know what the can, or instructions that come with the stuff says.

If it does boost 10 gal of 93 to 104, then the "octane" of the torco is 533 and it will take 9 oz of torco to bring a whole STi tank from 91 to 93, at a total tank cost of $32.50, so it's still slightly more expensive than Xylene bought in bulk ($31.30), although a lot more convenient. If the stuff eats your cats and fouls O2 sensors, then the cost goes way up.

Last edited by cgroppi; 09-16-2003 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 09-17-2003, 01:04 AM   #13
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This Kenny Bell forum has mixing info on the Torco Accelerator.

http://www.kenne-bell.com/forum_repl...p?message=1210


"2oz to 5 gal = 1 octane."

"10gal of 91+32 oz of accelerator will net you about 102 octane."

Sounds like the leaded concentrate is probably just a TEL concentrate, and I would assume the unleaded probably has MMT in it.

Quick easy way to tell. If you have run the unleaded concentrate, pull a spark plug. If it has a reddish color, (looks kinda like a rust stain) then the concentrate has MMT in it.

The other option would be to write to Torco and ask for a MSDS sheet for the accelerator.

Since it also is supposed to drastically lower combustion temps it probably has a high latent heat of evaporation carrier, like an alcohol.

Larry
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Old 09-17-2003, 02:46 AM   #14
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sorry, i was pulling the 10 gallon thing off of a can. There is a "mixing instructions" box on it.
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Old 09-17-2003, 12:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth2000
sorry, i was pulling the 10 gallon thing off of a can. There is a "mixing instructions" box on it.
Can you post the exact words that are on the can? I want to see if the mixing is linear too.
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Old 09-17-2003, 05:01 PM   #16
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guys.. whats the word?

please forgive me being lazy..

PS: just split w/ my Gf. VERY BAD MOOD i dont' wanna do any math right now..

thx guys.
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Old 09-17-2003, 05:44 PM   #17
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From the Torco and needforspeed sites, it looks like:

93->104 octane for a 10gal tank is 32oz Torco Unleaded accelerator

That is: .29 oz Torco per Octane-point*gal.

Since it is a concentrate, I don't see any way it could be anything but a linear octane increase by volume of accelerator.

So, to treat a 13 gal tank (that is all I ever put in, so assume you treated the remaining 2.9 gal previously) of 91 octane to make it 94 you need 3 more octane points per gallon:

.29*13=3.77oz/octane point
3.7*3 points=11.31 oz Torco

11.31oz Torco costs $4.59 (32oz costs $12.84 in bulk)

The same 11.31oz of Torco would give you 96 octane if you start with 93 octane.

So, that compares well with the toulne/xylene approach fiscally as well as in terms of ease of use.

I'll be looking in to this for long trips and track/autox days.

TRS
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Old 09-17-2003, 06:12 PM   #18
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That seems to be about right.

Costs about the same, but is a little easier to deal with. I just want to know if it's really safe to use every day. We have 91 only here in AZ, so I really would be using it every day if it turns out I need 93 to keep from pinging.

I am sure than xylene will be safe over very long term use (like every tank for 60,000 miles). I'm not so sure about the Torco. It's probably fine for occasional use like for going on road trips where you don't want several gallons of xylene in your trunk. But for every single tank? If it has lots of MMT in it, that would be a disaster.
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Old 09-18-2003, 09:23 AM   #19
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From the Mixing Instructions part of the can:

Treatment Ratio with 32ozs of Accelerator

-97 Minimum Octane Race Fuel treat 20 Gallons of 93 octane minimum gasoline

-104 Minimum Octane Race Fuel treat 10 gallons of 93 octane minimum gasoline

-107 Minimum Octane Race Fuel treat 5 gallons of 93 octane minimum gasoline


You know, I'm sure there is MMT in the unleaded formula, I don't know how much. I do know that I have 4,000 miles on the car now, that I have been using both the leaded and unleaded versions of it, and I don't have any problems with anything.

I have no cats, so I figured I wouldn't have as many problems... but so far.. None.
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Old 09-18-2003, 09:44 AM   #20
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Well, ignore my calculations, then! The accelerator doesn't have a constant octane rating per oz when mixed with varying amounts of gas.

TRS
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Old 09-18-2003, 12:26 PM   #21
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Well that's a pain in the neck. Now I'm going to have to fit a curve to those three points to figure out how it behaves at low concentration.

Kenneth2000,

The STi has 4(!) cats and all kinds of expensive sensors and such. I don't really want to be the guinnea pig for this stuff used every day. I will definately get some for trips and emergencys (only crappy gas available), though.
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Old 09-18-2003, 01:56 PM   #22
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I wonder just what is in this stuff. I suspect that it contains TEL (lead) that will foul your cats in a hurry. There are few compounds that can have a blending octane rating high enough to produce the dramatic RON gains advertised. That is why I strongly suspect TEL. But it is almost impossible for any non-research-chemist to obtain TEL (legally), except as a pre-formulated fuel. It is highly toxic in concentrated form.

It may contain MMT, but that would require some pretty hefty concentrations to see the advertised octane improvements. MMT is very hard on the engine in concentrations over 0.2 grams per gallon, and in fact it produces solid, metallic particles that rapidly wear engine parts and plug cats. That is why you see the rusty color on the plugs.

MTBE is another possibility, but it could not account for such dramatic increases in advertised octane by itself in the advertised concentrations. It takes up to 10% to see a significant improvement in octane.

Aniline is another possibility. It can provide a 1% octane improvement for each 1% added to the base fuel. So it would also require a fairly large amount per gallon, far above what Torco advertises. Plus aniline eats rubber parts quickly.

I am really skeptical of over-the-counter additives and octane boosters. The typical “points” of octane improvement are actually DECIMAL point improvements (for example, I “five point improvement” would raise the octane from 93.0 to 93.5). The “race gas concentrates” like Klotz Hitrate, and I suspect Torco Accelerator probably all contain significant amounts of TEL. Most brands will readily let you know, if you read their literature carefully. Anything advertised as “for offroad use only” more than likely contains TEL.

It is not hard to use toulene or xylene to boost octane, and these are safe for the engine, as they are typically part of the name-brand gasoline distributors formulations. This is especially true of toulene. My 2 cents.
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Old 09-18-2003, 02:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by cgroppi

The STi has 4(!) cats and all kinds of expensive sensors and such.
Four, are you sure? There are only two that I'm aware of, one in the downpipe and one in the mid-pipe.

It would be nice if Torco can supply a hint of what components go into the accelerator...

TRS
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Old 09-18-2003, 02:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by ToddStratton


Four, are you sure? There are only two that I'm aware of, one in the downpipe and one in the mid-pipe.

It would be nice if Torco can supply a hint of what components go into the accelerator...

TRS
I might be wrong. I just remember hearing that somwhere. If you say 2, and are sure, then it's 2. Either way, I don't want to have to replace any of them.
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Old 09-18-2003, 03:26 PM   #25
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Yup, only two cats in the STi, 3 in the WRX.

I've been using it in mine now for almost 4,000 miles ... no problems so far... luckily,.

I'm pretty sure there is some MMT, how much, I don't know ... there is also MTBE. Tel is in the leaded version.

That's why I've been running it in my car ..... to test it out and see if it presents any problems ...

It hasn't so far ....

I'm sure, in small quantites, it won't harm anything. Torco told me that they have not had any complaints or problems from people who use it daily or occasionally .....

We'll see
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