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Old 09-25-2003, 09:56 AM   #1
Don
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Question US Legacy arrival -- latest rumored date?

Hi Folks,

I'm salivating and ready to snap up a Legacy Turbo when they arrive stateside, which will be -- when, precisely? What's the latest speculation re the arrival date?
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Old 09-25-2003, 09:59 AM   #2
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Reading the various legacy threads will yield a lot of speculation and no concrete answers. As I'm sure you know, Subaru tends to be fairly tight-lipped about new models.

They cannot sell a 2005 in 2003 and the turbo's are almost certainly not going to be 2004's. The lower bound is therefore January. The latest date you'll hear in the speculation and rumor is June. I think a lot of people currently have money on May.

But like I said, no announcement has been made.
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Old 09-25-2003, 10:51 AM   #3
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Default My understanding...

is that non-turbos will arrive next spring, and that the turbos will arrive in the summer, probably in June like the STis did this year.

Bob
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Old 09-25-2003, 11:01 AM   #4
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Yep. Good chance of seeing most of the line coming in April with the GT a bit later in maybe June/July. The most extreme rumor is for Fall '04. No way. They will arrive by August for sure.
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Old 09-25-2003, 11:23 AM   #5
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Damn.. I thought your title meant you had info on the latest rumored release date

Oh well... back to waiting...
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Old 09-25-2003, 11:43 AM   #6
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I disagree with your comments that the Turbos will follow after the launch of the NA Legacy.

When the new iteration of the Impreza was launched (when the turbo WRX was first introduced) here in Calgary we were bombarded with WRX's and very few Imprezas. In fact I still notice this today! Its to the point where the WRX is no longer unique!

I'm thinking (and hoping) that the same will be true with the new Legacy intro. Lets be realistic, why would a performance craving consumer dish out money for a wheezy 165 hp Legacy given what the rest of the manufacturers have available? Sure AWD is a great selling feature, but a base hp of 165 hp doesn't cut it in this market segment any more! IMO, the benchmark should be around 200 hp!
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Old 09-25-2003, 11:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by sooberoo
I disagree with your comments that the Turbos will follow after the launch of the NA Legacy.
That's been stated in the press several times already.

Bob
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Old 09-25-2003, 11:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by rsholland


That's been stated in the press several times already.

Bob
Yes.. but that doesn't apply to the US... right?
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Old 09-25-2003, 11:57 AM   #9
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I wonder what the rationale behind staggering the turbo launch is? Is it a technical issue? Or perhaps SOA doesn't want to dilute the new product intro?

In any event, I'm sure launching the 2005 Legacy as early as possible is on SOA's priority list now. The 2004 Legacys must be selling very slowly as evidenced by the deep discounts and buyer incentives.

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Old 09-25-2003, 12:00 PM   #10
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Whether it is right or wrong, various sources have written that the turbo would be delayed. I understand what you are saying and agree, but because of the sources, we must recognize it as a possibility. Certainly doesn't mean they're right. Just be prepared.

There have been plenty of discussions about the 165hp and if a 200hp AVCS DOHC NA engine could be fit in the lineup. In the end, 165hp looks weak but is completely in line with the base engines of ALL of the competitors. Go look up base engines on Camry, Accord, Jetta, A4, S60, Altima, etc. Be sure to compare torque as well. If you don't want to do that work and can trust me, believe me that 165hp/165tq matches or smokes everything but the I6 in the 325. The topic of the 200hp version came about to really compete against the TSX and maybe the 210hp Saab 9-3. It would fill in the price gap between the 165hp and 250hp GT. BUT, by eliminating the 200hp, we have more pricing room to bring it down in price. Putting the engine in the middle could cause Subaru to need to put a higher price on the 2.5T car. Why not use the AVCS DOHC NA engine as the base? Very likely answers are cost and need for higher octane gas. Cost is obvious. The DOHC AVCS engines are of a bit higher compression that necessitate higher octane fuel. What keeps them from making that spec of engine but lower compression? I dunno, but then it wouldn't make 200hp.

With all of that said, I think that there is a good possibility of seeing a SOHC AVCS version that could go up to about 175hp. We have had some good indications that we may get something like this.
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Old 09-25-2003, 12:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigElm


Yes.. but that doesn't apply to the US... right?
No, that was for North America, but they could be wrong as was just stated.

Bob
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Old 09-25-2003, 12:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ken S
I wonder what the rationale behind staggering the turbo launch is? Is it a technical issue? Or perhaps SOA doesn't want to dilute the new product intro?
Three things off the top of my head are possible IMO.

First, the 3.0 H6 is likely to get outshined by the 2.5T. By releasing it first, it gets its time of glory.

Second, if the information/hints about the 6 speed for US are true, they may be wanting a bit more time to finish development.

Third, is that performance models sometimes come out after the regular models like Porsche 911 Turbo or M cars.

Oh, and Elm, yes, it applies to US. It certainly wasn't for the countries that already have the turbo.
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Old 09-25-2003, 12:18 PM   #13
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I'm too sick of writing it out so...

[insert Ghost's standard Legacy rant here]



[/rant]
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Old 09-25-2003, 12:26 PM   #14
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Old 09-25-2003, 01:55 PM   #15
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I'll reply on this when I return from more classes.

In the mean time, we're going to have to stick Ghost in a padded room.

Okay, my rant on the Legacy timeframe..
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Old 09-25-2003, 03:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by PPower

Oh, and Elm, yes, it applies to US. It certainly wasn't for the countries that already have the turbo.
Son of a..............

Come on SOA
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Old 09-25-2003, 05:55 PM   #17
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Can they feel the want for this new Legacy? The auto mags are getting as much info printed as they can, the Subaru boards are clammoring over any little snipet of info. I WANT MY LEGACY NOW! I'm in withdrawl. Going back to my padded room.
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Old 09-25-2003, 08:43 PM   #18
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Just an IMHFO,

But the rumours are from the magazines I normally consider "out of the loop". Remember these are the same magazines that were reprinting the photo and story of the twin-turbo flat six Legacy STi caught in testing a loooong time ago, which proved to be the standard 2.0 turbo. The fact that Europe is having a delay of the turbo release is being seized upon by many people as proof, despite the drastic differences in the market.

And the fact that every time somebody has caught the Legacy in testing in America (and it's been in testing for a while.....), there has been a turbo model. Doesn't that tell anybody anything???

Cheers,

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Old 09-25-2003, 10:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma

Doesn't that tell anybody anything???

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
Well, it tells us only what we know already--that we will be getting a new Legacy sometime in the future--and probably a turbo if the hood scoop is reliable.

(remembering that here in the US we've had hood scoops on plenty of NA Subarus, so they alone are not sufficient proof of anything)

But that still doesn't tell us anything we need, such as:
Will the turbo be Auto only?
What will it cost?
What will its numbers be like (HP/TQ, weight, and 0-60, etc)
What colors will we get?
What std/optional equipment?

and, of course, the MOST important--WHEN will we get it?

November used to seem possible, back in May when the world starting getting the new Legacy; but now we see the old platform as the MY 2004 here, so maybe the new MY 2005 won't be until May 2004?
Maybe Fall 2004 for the Turbo?

We *still* have *nothing* to go on...maybe the testing indicates 3mo until release (STI), but maybe it doesnt.

And for would-be buyers, we still need to know--do we wait? or get something else? How long will we be waiting? What are we waiting for?

And should I just get a Forester XT or Impreza STi or "other" brand NOW instead of waiting for whatever it is to come whenever it does in the case of the new Legacy?

...the truth may be out there Mulder, but we don't have it.
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Old 09-25-2003, 11:14 PM   #20
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The truth is out there. It is indeed a conspiracy against the American people.

Ghost, I think you nailed the biggest thing on the head, how long are we going to have to wait, and what we are going to get, that being should we move on to something else.

My New Location: Padded Room.... []
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Old 09-25-2003, 11:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghostrider600


We *still* have *nothing* to go on...maybe the testing indicates 3mo until release (STI), but maybe it doesnt.

And for would-be buyers, we still need to know--do we wait? or get something else? How long will we be waiting? What are we waiting for?

And should I just get a Forester XT or Impreza STi or "other" brand NOW instead of waiting for whatever it is to come whenever it does in the case of the new Legacy?

...the truth may be out there Mulder, but we don't have it.
First off, the drivetrain has been here being tested underneath the stealthy 'old' bodystyle for much longer than 3 months. We know it was being tested in Alaska quite awhile ago, so they have had plenty a bit of time for tweaking it out.

Secondly, if you put any stock in what Paul (Shirokuma), and Anthony (AnotherB4) have written about their first-hand experience with the new turbo, you'll know that they are *really* excited about this car (granted they *may* be a bit biased...). Will we get the same exact thing here? Obviously, nobody knows, but if you look at what happened with the STi, it's very likely that we will get something very close to the Japanese spec, plus the benefits of larger displacement. I think it's really very unlikely that Subaru would botch up the release of their bread and butter model in their biggest market...especially after all of the design/engineering work that went into developing it.

And about the hood scoop, you've got to be joking... From the day we received a performance-oriented turbo Subaru (the WRX), the era of the fake NA hood scoop on Subarus was gone.

I, like you, had an STi with my name on it. But now (especially after seeing it), I will definitely be waiting to find out what this car is like. I know there's no proof, but it really does make a whole lot of sense to intro the new line in Detroit, then release somewhere around Apr/May (including the turbo model). Granted, Subaru (and SOA) have not always done what seems to be the sensable thing, but they've been doing much better lately.

Besides, when it does come, if by some stretch of the imagination it turns out to be a disappointment, the new car alternatives are likely to be that much better by then.
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Old 09-25-2003, 11:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by GaryS

I, like you, had an STi with my name on it. But now (especially after seeing it), I will definitely be waiting to find out what this car is like.

I know there's no proof, but it really does make a whole lot of sense to intro the new line in Detroit, then release somewhere around Apr/May (including the turbo model).

Granted, Subaru (and SOA) have not always done what seems to be the sensable thing, but they've been doing much better lately.

Besides, when it does come, if by some stretch of the imagination it turns out to be a disappointment, the new car alternatives are likely to be that much better by then.
Yeah, I'm still on the wait list, and the not-knowing is wearing on me. Luckily, Silver/Silver and Black/Gold seem hard to come by in my area as I've been on it since May and I'm still waiting after passing once in July (b/c I wanted to see about the Detonation problem).

BUT, though I dislike the looks, at least the STI is a known entity, the Legacy Turbo/USDM "Spec B"...well...who knows?

It's the old "bird in the hand" idea...and SoA could "fix" all this with a simple press release saying 1) What it will be (stats and options etc), 2) When we will get it, and 3) How much it will cost....

If they're as far along as you seem to suggest, and since it's out in most of the rest of the world, then what IS the hold-up?

...peh...padded rooms for All!!!

EDIT: IF SoA *really* cared about their customers' sanity, they could even get our emails and send us all an uber-secret "classified" preview just to shut us up and secure our deposits....

Maybe throw in a twin-scroll and a test-mule test-drive while we're dreaming...
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Old 09-26-2003, 12:50 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghostrider600


Yeah, I'm still on the wait list, and the not-knowing is wearing on me. Luckily, Silver/Silver and Black/Gold seem hard to come by in my area as I've been on it since May and I'm still waiting after passing once in July (b/c I wanted to see about the Detonation problem).

BUT, though I dislike the looks, at least the STI is a known entity, the Legacy Turbo/USDM "Spec B"...well...who knows?

It's the old "bird in the hand" idea...and SoA could "fix" all this with a simple press release saying 1) What it will be (stats and options etc), 2) When we will get it, and 3) How much it will cost....

If they're as far along as you seem to suggest, and since it's out in most of the rest of the world, then what IS the hold-up?

...peh...padded rooms for All!!!

EDIT: IF SoA *really* cared about their customers' sanity, they could even get our emails and send us all an uber-secret "classified" preview just to shut us up and secure our deposits....

Maybe throw in a twin-scroll and a test-mule test-drive while we're dreaming...
I like your thinking on the 'uber secret' preview!! Sign me up!

As far as the news hold up for NA, I think it's got a whole lot to do with not wanting to do an official press release this far in advance because it could dampen sales of the current model.

I think, when the official anouncement does come (in January?), it will make a fairly big splash here, and not just among the enthusiast community. Once that happens, Subaru will have to practically give the '04s away. Not something they'll be itching to do until they have to.

Have faith. If Subaru can deliver the goods ("signs point to yes"), your patience will be rewarded.
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Old 09-26-2003, 02:12 AM   #24
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March 2004
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Old 09-26-2003, 10:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by GaryS


As far as the news hold up for NA, I think it's got a whole lot to do with not wanting to do an official press release this far in advance because it could dampen sales of the current model.

I think, when the official anouncement does come (in January?), it will make a fairly big splash here, and not just among the enthusiast community. Once that happens, Subaru will have to practically give the '04s away. Not something they'll be itching to do until they have to.

They might as well give them away... here in the NorthEast they are offering $2000 cash back plus some other incentives... it seems like the news is already known about the new Legacy so there's no point in holding up. Their sales are already dampened!

Stop procrastinating and make some money SOA

I'd still like to know what's the status on the Indiana plant. Wonder if they're making the Legacy under wraps and using Isuzu to cover up news with it's loss and conversion of plant assembly with the Ascender. Hmmmmmm.....
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