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Old 10-24-2003, 02:23 PM   #26
mbiker97
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Yes you can make adjustments, but they would go into effect until you save the map. Like Chi said you can save them while your driving but the car needs to be in neutral and at a low rpm.
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Old 10-29-2003, 10:37 PM   #27
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1. I figured there should be 0 load w/ the clutch disengaged when making changes to the UTEC just as if we would on the road. Yes I'd plan on having more than just myself around while tunning.

2. Would it create more power and be safer if I copied the 50% column to 10-40% instead of having the ECU control the timing? This is assuming I can dyno everything too.
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Old 10-30-2003, 05:34 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by chuglobal
1. I figured there should be 0 load w/ the clutch disengaged when making changes to the UTEC just as if we would on the road. Yes I'd plan on having more than just myself around while tunning.

2. Would it create more power and be safer if I copied the 50% column to 10-40% instead of having the ECU control the timing? This is assuming I can dyno everything too.
My car felt better after i tweaked the lower MLP in the ignition map. I didn't just use the 50% column though..

My map has higher numbers in the low/midrange rpms in the lower % columns, and as it goes up in the % columns from 20%->100% i start reducing the ign. timing in the spoolup area to 20deg. at it's lowest point up until 4k rpms IIRC- and then I start adding timing back in, by 4,500 i'm at 24, and at 5,000rpms i'm at 25deg. and finally peaks at 26 degrees from 5,500-redline. I can post up my ign. map tomorrow if you want, or just email it to you so you can see as explaining it sounds much more complicated than it is or looks
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Old 11-04-2003, 05:00 PM   #29
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1. Negative: The dyno session did NOT go as planned; I'm not pleased w/ the outcome as I wasted not only my time but the time of two other people. We reset a code because we "all" thought that the ECU would be fine however it actually reset the whole ECU so we could not do any tunning. The ECU went into safe mode thus ran real rich ... 10+/1. Basically we got "0" real tunning things accomplished; the majority of the changes were a shot in the dark which is not meaningful and I still got knock driving back home.

2. Positive: I'm putting down 218 whp & 200 ft/lbs in 78F+ degrees @ 14.3psi+/-. These numbers are from a base Stage 2 map w/ no UTEC tunning. Thus when I drive on the roads w/ 50F+ degrees I'm sure I'll be putting more down. I did learn how to read some of the info presented from a dyno however I couldn't put anything to use today. Finally, I really appreciate the help of Jason and Erik; I know none of us were happy w/ the outcome but there's always a next time. Thanks guys.
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Old 11-05-2003, 07:50 AM   #30
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1. If you tune A/F in 3rd on the road rather than 4th, doesn't the A/F get "leaner" once you hit 4th due to higher load which yields more boost? Thus if I wanted 11.2/1 in 4th I should shoot for 11/1 in 3rd and it should balance out?

2. If I'm trying to shoot for an optimal A/F of 11.2/1, can't I use the factory O2 sensor to tune since the factory O2 sensor should still be within it's safety margin which it "can" measure. If I log all the runs after I make adjustments to the "Fueling Variables" can't I keep making changes till the reading from the UTEC go from either rich and/or learn to the 11.2/1?

3. We all know that resetting the ECU causes a period of delay in power because the ECU is in "safe" mod. Can't we also create a "safe" mod map in the UTEC to on purposely be more aggressive so if you ever get into a "race" right after resetting the ECU you'll still have power. Once the ECU switches back to its "aggressive" map you can switch back to the standard map.
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Old 11-05-2003, 08:16 AM   #31
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1. Originally I thought this was the case, however it is not. If you tune for 11.2:1 in 3rd, you will actually be slightly more rich in 4th.

2. The factory O2 doesn't have the ability to read that low. The Utec indicates 'rich' once the AFR passes around 12:1. I believe that to be its lowest useable output.

3. You could. This would basically require pulling more fuel. The problem is you wouldn't know when the ecu switched 'aggressive' and if you were running this newly created map, you'd go very lean.
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Old 11-05-2003, 09:24 AM   #32
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1. How would it be more rich in 4th; I assume more boost = more air thus leaner A/F mixture?

2. You're right, I thought I saw 11.x somewhere but I was looking at something else. I did a run this morning in 3rd and the lowest was around 12.4. I guess that's why you'd need the WB O2 sensor to go that low ( rich ).

3. True, I just wish there was a factual equation on why/when the ECU switches.
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Old 11-05-2003, 10:09 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by chuglobal
1. How would it be more rich in 4th; I assume more boost = more air thus leaner A/F mixture?

2. You're right, I thought I saw 11.x somewhere but I was looking at something else. I did a run this morning in 3rd and the lowest was around 12.4. I guess that's why you'd need the WB O2 sensor to go that low ( rich ).

3. True, I just wish there was a factual equation on why/when the ECU switches.
1. You forget we have a raising rate fuel pressure regulator. When boost goes up so does pressure. However the injectors still open for the same length of time so more fuel comes out with each opening.

2. The factory ECU has algorithms for the O2 but the Utec doesn't so it just reads rich below ~12:1 afr. A wideband is necessary to tune correctly.

3. It's not that the factory ECU switches maps. It changes it's maps. The only maps that the ECU can switch to is low or high det. Which is why if you reset your ECU you don't want to do any tuning until the car has learned and adjusted.
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Old 11-05-2003, 10:10 AM   #34
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I suspect the reason why it's more rich in 4th versus lower gears is more a function of how long it takes for the fuel to get into the engine. Starting in 1st gear, each subsequent gear should indicate more rich than the last. 1st is much shorter, the fuel can't get in as quickly, thus it will indicate a leaner mixture than 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. The engine will accelerate slower the faster you go and will enable more fuel to enter the chambers.

Boost will lean it out also, but there's an interesting side effect to that as well. It is harder to reach peak boost in shorter gears. 1st and 2nd in most cases will not peak as high as 3rd, 4th, etc. There's also a rising rate fpr, so the fuel tends to remain balanced to some degree. While 4th has a tendancy to run higher boost, it will also have enough fuel. Lower boost will not require as much fuel.

It's all dependant on the tuning, but usually this is the case and if you tune in 3rd or 4th the rest of the gears are pretty safe.
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Old 11-05-2003, 10:13 AM   #35
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I see I've echo'd what mbiker97 posted the same time I did
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Old 11-05-2003, 11:22 AM   #36
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1. "Rising Rate" Fuel Regulator means that at higher rpms the injectors are open the same amount however due to the increased pressure, more fuel is "pushed" out? Is there a "Constant Rate" Fuel Regulator which would mean at higher rpms it gets leaner because the injectors close and open rather than stay open?

2. Yeah, I'll need a WB 02 sensor for even street tunning. Humm, I should shoot for 11.5 in 3rd and maybe in reality be 11.2 once in 4th. I wish I had a dyno at home to play w/.

3. Is there a way to force the ECU to use it's aggressive map after a ECU reset instead of waiting a long time before you can tune again?
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Old 11-05-2003, 12:58 PM   #37
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1. You could get a constant rate FPR, I think they about $300 though. They is someone around here that runs 100psi but I don't know his setup exactly since I think he's a jagoff (talks to much poop).

2. Luckily I have a Horiba (sp?) dyno test cell quality wideband available to me. I don't need it anymore though thanks to the ECUtek.

3. They only way to force the ECU to go aggressive quickly is get a reflash. I have my multiplier set at 16 (instead of the stock 8) for learning. You can also change the amount of miles reguired for the ECU to relearn.
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Old 11-05-2003, 12:58 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by chuglobal
3. Is there a way to force the ECU to use it's aggressive map after a ECU reset instead of waiting a long time before you can tune again?
Do a search for Shiv's quick ECU teach trick, or something along those lines.

Basically you keep the car at 2500 rpm's for 5 seconds while maintaining 2-5 psi boost.

I'm finding it even helps to advance the timing multiplier without resetting the ECU (if you've had knock).
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Old 11-05-2003, 01:18 PM   #39
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I have found no correlation between the Shiv reset and the ecu switching back to it's aggressive map. The only way I've found to tell what mode the ecu is in is by using a wideband at WOT. The advance multipler (montiored by deltadash) jumps to 16 rapidly using the Shiv reset, however the ecu will still run super rich until its happy.

Out of curiosity, is this fact that you can adjust the mi needed for the ecu to go aggressive using ecutek?
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Old 11-05-2003, 02:03 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Si2WRX
Out of curiosity, is this fact that you can adjust the mi needed for the ecu to go aggressive using ecutek?
Yes, it's fact. There is so much inbedded in the factory ECU it's rediculous. I just wish I had a dyno too so I could play with it more (ECUteck).
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Old 11-05-2003, 02:06 PM   #41
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Can you comment on what the unflashed oem mileage is?
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Old 11-05-2003, 02:23 PM   #42
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1. Where can you change the "multiplier?" What exactly is the multipler? I'm assuming the multiplier is "not" the samething as the mileage in which it takes the ECU to "relearn."

2. According to Shiv's trick, holding at 2500 rpms w/ 2-5psi, how many cycles do you need to do this?

3. Does the ECU really "lose" all of the learned settings when I reset the ECU? If the ECU has two maps, safe and aggressive, then we only have to worry about a total of two different maps.

4. What is the default mileage for a factory ECU to relearn?
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Old 11-05-2003, 02:44 PM   #43
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By default, when you reset the ECU, the multiplier is set at 8. As you drive, it will go to 12 then 16 if the ECU likes what it's seeing. This impacts its partial throttle learned timing correction. It's not the same thing as the mileage thing.

Using DeltaDash, I've found the easiest way to do it is crusing at low speed in fifth and giving the car moderate throttle trying to accelerate from 2200rpm keeping boost around 4psi. This tends to raise the multiplier quickly.
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Old 11-05-2003, 02:53 PM   #44
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So what is the "multiplier?"
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Old 11-05-2003, 02:58 PM   #45
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The ECU reset totally resets all the learned parameters every time. That's why it's a reset. From the factory it is ~180 mi.

The multiplier is the ability of the ECU to learn. With a higher number the ECU learns more aggressively i.e. more timing.
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Old 11-05-2003, 03:07 PM   #46
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So "multiplier" is the rate at which the ECU learns? Why do people just not change the ECU to learn as fast as possible? Do you have to have the ECUtek to change the multipier?
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Old 11-05-2003, 03:40 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by chuglobal
So "multiplier" is the rate at which the ECU learns? Why do people just not change the ECU to learn as fast as possible? Do you have to have the ECUtek to change the multipier?
Yes ECUteck, or maybe Cobb, is the only way to change it that I know of.
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Old 11-05-2003, 10:25 PM   #48
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1. Interesting ... I was just reading Vishnu's theory on speed up the ECU learning process.

A. Warm up the car "then" reset the ECU.
B. Hold rpm between 2500-4000 / boost betwen 2-5psi for 5-10 second.

2. Why was it called the "multiplier" rate? I'm just trying to find out why things are called what so I can explain to people if necessary in the future.
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Old 11-05-2003, 11:41 PM   #49
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Excellent reading: http://www.ecutek.com/tuning/ignition/

The Coarse Ignition Learning section details the multiplier.

You could reflash the ecu to a 16 multiplier by default, however this will not speed up when it switches to it's aggressive map. It will only impact the ecu's ignition learning.
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Old 11-06-2003, 01:46 AM   #50
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Any of this have any impact on UTEC tuning
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