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Old 09-28-2003, 05:18 PM   #1
BAC5.2
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Default Money issues.... Is it a good idea?

I have been thinking.

I figure I'll be spending around 6k including donor car to do the EJ22T/tranny/awd swap into my car. All said and done, with upgrades, around 6k to complete the car.

Now.

Is it worth it?

6k into a 1995 Legacy that's worth MAYBE 3k.

I'll never get the money back.

I think it would be worth it for the following reasons:

> I love the hell out of my car. I am a Subaru man for life (unless it's a Jeep....).

> My car + fast = Sleeper from hell.

> My car just looks really cool in my opinion. Lift the back end up a little bit (I have a serious case of ass sink) to level it out, stiffen things up a little bit, and I have a car that turely is rally inspired.

Why I am doubting it:

> For 9k, I could easily buy a ~97 Jeep Cherokee and fit a blower on it. Blown XJ = AWESOME

> For 9k I could buy a 96 - 98 Grand Cherokee 5.2L.

> For 6K I could do a lot of things.

Do you think the end's justify the means?

If I can have a Turbo/5-speed/AWD 95 Legacy, that would be insane.

And out of curiousity, what kind of power can the stock 94 Turbo 5-speed's handle? Will they stand up to 300 crank hp? Would it be cheaper in the end to just get new gears cut for the 5-speed, or do a 6-speed STI swap (which would mean new drive shafts, new diffs, and maybe new hubs?). Just how loud are straight cut gears? Annoyingly deafining? What if I layer under the carpet some extra thick Dynamat?

Is 6k to much or to little to be estimating?

6k comes with the following:

Donor car to swap engine/tranny/rear end (most of it)

Misc. Rear end parts.

Intercooler (front mount)

Upgraded turbo

Stand alone engine management

exhaust

clutch

A-pillar gauges (Engine Temp, Oil Pressure, Boost)

Boost Controller

Turbo Timer

16" WRX rims w/tires (buy them off of here or E-Bay or something)

WRX Brakes (if they will fit, otherwise some brakes from a newer Legacy)

and I think that's about it. Anything I am forgetting? 6k sound about right? I don't know how much I can do myself, so I might have to pay some labor charges (would this be something a Subaru Dealership would actually be good for since they would know their way around?) for the engine swap and tranny swap and wiring and whatnot. I can do some of the bolt on stuff myself, but I might just have all the electronic stuff wired in with the engine/tranny and AWD.

I need some serious help guys.

What kind of power can I expect out of it?
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Old 09-28-2003, 06:44 PM   #2
legacy92ej22t
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For what you are listing, if you're doing most of the work yourself, I think it's a pretty good est.. If you're going to pay others to do the work then I think it's too low, unless you can get super good deals on parts or have a buddy giving you a really good deal on labor.I mean the turbo, intercooler, engine management, clutch and exhaust alone you're looking at around 4K. If you shop around and get some of the stuff used then maybe around 3K. Most engine management i've seen runs around 2K alone. I think your setup sounds great though and it would be a nice sleeper. just my .02

The ej22t stock internals are good to about 350 bhp. There are a couple ej22t's putting out 500+ whp though with upgraded internals and everything else.

The brakes. The Legacy turbo rears are very, very good. Many think better then the WRX rears. The Legacy turbo fronts are better then "newer Legacy" fronts too IMO. WRX fronts are better then the Legacy turbo fronts but you'll need 16"+ wheels.

Some stuff to add to your list. A bigger fuel pump and bigger injectors.

I'm no expert though, just my opinion. I think it would be a cool project though.
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Old 09-28-2003, 07:00 PM   #3
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Could I do without Engine Management?

Will the stock ECU be able to work with the engine? I know Subiekid has a harness to plug directly into the Legacy (EJ22) computer. Would that save me some time and work?

If that'll save me 2k, then that's 2k that can go into the install.

If the harness will plug right up, then I can simply get the engine and tranny bolted up, plug it in, have everything running without having to re-map electronics and flash the ECU so the car never thought it had an Auto and FWD.

If I could get my mechanic to bolt the new engine in, with tranny (install new clutch at the same time), then plug in the harness, connect the rear drive shaft (should match right up), and bolt up all of the suspension components (if the ones from the 94 don't bolt up, then I'll have to find a wrecked 95 sedan and take the rear end out of that). Swap on the 94 brakes (save me some money there, but I will be getting new wheels and tires anyway just so I can get some wider tires).

What do you think about that?

It would be a sleeper without a doubt. I wouldn't run much over stock until I built the engine to handle 500+hp (then 330BHP shouldn't be any kind of durability concern, eh?). Then bump up the boost and turn my car into a little "5 Liter Eater"

Might have to change my user name to BAC22T...

Edit: Would it be better (more reliable and everything) than a Blown Jeep 4-Liter? Gas mileage is definately in the Scoob's benefit...
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Old 09-29-2003, 12:12 AM   #4
legacy92ej22t
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When you say subiekid has a harness to plug into the ej22 are you talking about the N/A computer? You should transfer over the turbo ECU IMO. The OBD l isn't as smart as the newer OBD ll or WRX ECUs. I think you can go pretty far with the stock turbo ECU.
You will need a FCD setup to avoid fuel cut under high boost though. I would run an A/F gauge with your other gauges or A'pexi AFC R or something similar. If it were me, I would push the limit of the upgrade as far as you can and do an E-TEClll or other engine management last. You might be suprised how far you can go while staying well in your budget.

Is it possible that what subiekid has is a harness that adds the extra wiring for the turbo ECU? Knock sensor ect...

I don't know much about Jeeps ( I like them though ) so i'm no help there, and I don't know about the auto-FWD thing either. Sorry. I know a lot of Legacy turbo wagon owners are swapping 5mt in and never heard them say anything about swapping the ECU but maybe they are. I don't know.
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Old 09-29-2003, 01:19 AM   #5
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I am not sure what he has. I sent him a PM I think.

My 95 is OBD2, but the 94's aren't I don't think.

FCD?

Does anyone make a 4 gauge pod for the A-Pillar? If so, A/F could be put up.

I would like to know how far my stock ECU could take me, and upgrade from there if I HAVE to.
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Old 09-29-2003, 01:22 AM   #6
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yea, i gots the harness. hehehe

the only wire that has to be run to the motor bay is for the extra signal onthe maf sensor. other then that its all in the motor bay. somewhere along the lines a power wire has gotten crosses because it keeps the ecu turned on even when the ignition is off.

i have a pic some place

let me look
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Old 09-29-2003, 01:29 AM   #7
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this alows you to plug the obd1 turbo ecu into the 95 harness.

i have more testing to do befor i will sell it. but it would be the easiest thing.

i am getting a tec 3 because i am going to do a 2.4 stroker and the stock ecu cant do that.
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Old 09-29-2003, 09:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by BAC5.2
I am not sure what he has. I sent him a PM I think.

My 95 is OBD2, but the 94's aren't I don't think.

FCD?

Does anyone make a 4 gauge pod for the A-Pillar? If so, A/F could be put up.

I would like to know how far my stock ECU could take me, and upgrade from there if I HAVE to.
The 94 turbo will be an OBD l. Looks like subiekids setup is for the
OBD l turbo ECU, so you'll be swapping.

I haven't ever seen a 4 pod pillar but I haven't looked for one either. If you're going to run high boost IMO you should have an A/F gauge somewhere. You're going to want to know what is going on with your fuel mixture. If you really are set on only having gauges in an A-pillar and can only have three I would really think about replacing either the oil pressure or temp gauge with the A/F. Just my opinion though.

FCD stands for Fuel Cut Defender. The ej22t computer will hit fuel cut at 13 psi. So you need to fool the ECU. You can either get/build an electric one( sends false voltage to ECU) or get/build
a mechanical one( bleeds off boost before the pressure exchange solenoid). this is another reason I feel the A/F gauge is important because running 16 psi when the computer only sees 12.5 psi can cause lean conditions. A lot of people are running FCD setups without any problem and you will probably be allright but I would want to know for sure what is going on. Like I said before, just my opinion though. Others may disagree.
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Old 09-29-2003, 12:24 PM   #9
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no FCD while using the harness. heehhehehehe.

you can boost till you blow.
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Old 09-29-2003, 02:34 PM   #10
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I will most likely be running 3 Gauges in the Pillar.

A/F
Oil Pressure
Boost (Vacuum, 30-0-30)

I don't think I will ever go more than 20 PSI, but just in case

The Gauges will be Autometer Lunar Mechanical (A/F is electronic). My buddy who has been drag racing imports for years (owner of many a turbo car, a Turbo R1 motorcycle, and drove a 67 GTO for many years) said that Autometer are the most reliabile there is, and mechanical is significantly more accurate. If anyone thinks this is incorrect, let me know. I really like the Autometer "Cobalt" gauges, but they are electronic only. If I had the coin ($750 total) I would get the Defi gauges .

Subiekid - Is your harness homemade? I'll take it if it'll make everything nice and easy.

How much for the Tec3? If that would make things more fool proof and impossible to screw up, then I would rather have that. Espically with anything I may want to do later on down the road.

Durability is key remember.

2.4 turbo stroker eh? Sounds insane! Probally to much money/work for me (unless it's easy, lol). I want reliability though....
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Old 09-29-2003, 09:35 PM   #11
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Buy a Legacy turbo if that is what you want. No sense tearing apart a good car when you can simply BUY that which you are after.
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Old 09-29-2003, 10:54 PM   #12
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TEC3? Remember that 2K we were talking about before for engine management. Unless subiekid knows someone I don't or is getting a good deal on a used setup, that's what you're looking at. Primitive Enterprises sells an Electromotive TEC lll system for $1,800-$2,000 new. They use them in their rally cars with the ej22t. http://www.writerguy.com/primitive/motor.htm#fuel

http://www.writerguy.com/primitive/catalog1.htm

On this second link scroll down to the "engine, clutch and fuel systems" and look at the TEC3 setup they have.
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Old 09-30-2003, 12:20 AM   #13
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that is not for the entire tec 3 set up. that is for a moded fuel system.

a tec 3 brain usually goes for 2 grand alone.

vishnu sold tec 3 kits for subaru for about 2800. this came with everything you need.

but if you do find a legacy turbo in running condtion dont kill it. i only did the turbo swap because my 92 turbo was hit by a truck and totaled out. i took themotor out and put it in my 95 because i had the 95 and had planed on doing a turbo kit on it.
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Old 09-30-2003, 08:50 AM   #14
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OUCH! That's worse then I thought. Well... maybe someday.
Are you sure the Primitive setup doesn't come with the control unit?
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Old 09-30-2003, 12:50 PM   #15
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i emailed him and he said that is for the tec 2 unit.

the tec 2 sucks compared to the tec 3
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