realistate lawyer needed in Chicago..

[AndyWRXWG]

anybody on here a relistate lawyer, or know of any good ones? I'm in the process of buying my first place and need to find a good lawyer. Thanks.

[WRXpkr]

PM MissMyStook, or actually, maybe email him thru nasioc as he sold his wrx a few months ago and im not sure how often he reads the forums anymore :/
Im sure he knows someone local to chicago.
GoodLuck!
Trent

[WRXtreme78]

FINALLY buying the crack house eh Andy? congrats yo.

[rao]

The problem is that to do it right costs more than most people are willing to spend. A house deal takes a good 10-20 hours and that is a few thousand $$. Most people want to pay $300 and you that just dosen't buy enough time - sort of like going to a shop and wantinig to pay $50 for a clutch job.

E-mail or PM me if you have questions.

[BTW, I am a lawyer and I do specialize in real estate and franchising ]

[MKIVSupra]

10-20 hours!?!? To do what?

[rao]

Originally posted by MKIVSupra
10-20 hours!?!? To do what?

Legal work

20 hours is definately on the high side, but stranger things have happened, 10 is on the low side, unless you have a very simple condo re-sale transaction.

Typically:

Review the contract

Review and CCR of record (if by some miracle you actually get a copy of it this early in the game)

Talk to the buyer or seller (depending on who your client it) and figure out what they think the deal is and explain that the CCR prevents holding Rally-Cross events in the back yard)

Draft attorney approval letter

Talk to the other lawyer re the approval letter and negotiate the terms

Review title and survey and every page of every document of record (this can be a stack of paper 3 iniches thick)

Talk to title company re any problems shown by the title or survey

Talk to the client re any problems shown by the title or survey

Prepare the closing documents (if you are the seller)

Review the loan documents and explain them to the client (if you are the buyer)

Go to the closing (should only take 15 minutes, but typically takes an hour or 2 and sometimes all day if people get really nutty).

None of this includes the 500 calls from the broker asking for status.

None of it is particularly difficult or time consuming, but taken togehter it adds up. Remember that it is an actual transfer of real property and that includes lots of steps, documents and details. Usually if a lawyer is goiing to charge you $300 for a house deal wither they are having a paralegal do all the work and the attorney won't spend any real time on it, or they view it as a loss leader to get other business in the future. Of course you can always just cut corenrs and wing it and hope for the best, but that tends to make for a malpractice claim

You can't imaging how on edge people get when they are making their biggest investment - even people who are quite sophisticated in business matters can get confused by real estate, especially when it is THEIR home. I once spent 5 hours at a closing arguing over who got the fireplace tools

It really is like a clutch replacement, it is easy, but it takes tiime.

[Salient]

Im curious, why do you need a lawyer? I bought a place a couple years ago and never even thought about securing a real estate lawyer - cant even think of a reason, other than a land dispute, as to why I would ever need one.

I do, however, have a friend who is a real estate agent and used her for the process. Made my life a bit easier.

[rao]

You never "need" a lawyer for anything and most of the time everything works out great. Many an accused criminal have defended themselves.

Typically the more rural a property is, the less complex things are, though that is not always the case. In parts of the country they people don't even typically get title insurance, which is great, unless there is a problem.

[MJH]

I'm a lawyer.

I did my own closing. Didn't have any help from a paralegal.

It didn't take me 10-20 hours of work. Did I short-change myself?

I one spent 5 hours at a closing arguing over who got the fireplace tools

You couldn't find any way of resolving this dispute without wasting 5 hours? Seems like the kind of thing that could be easily negotiated.

[rao]

OK, call it 5 hours on the low side - that is still a lot of money, which was my point.

I don't know if you short changed yourself - I certainly hope not. The funny thing about real estate is it may take a while to find out. Besides you should have a slight advantage over a non-lawyer - that is sort of like a Subaru Master Technicial with access to a full shop saying that installing a new set of pistons is quick and easy --> for him it should be and it would take him a whole lot less time than it takes me. Let's see a first year law student do a house deal in 5 hours, I suspect that they would spend over $1,000 of free West Law time before they even got started.

I could have negotiated it easily and you could have easily negotiated it, but both sides dug in and it became very personal, which was also my point about house closings. If it was my house the issue never would have come up in the first place.

If you can find a lawyer to do a house deal for $300 jump at it, but try to talk them down to $200 first

[heynow]

Allright, I am ALSO a lawyer and I think the guy who spends 10-20 hours on a residential real estate closing is wrong, and I think the guy who did it himself was wrong. But hey, what's reasonable doubt to me is unreasonable doubt to someone else. And that's what you have to keep in mind when you prepare for these real estate transactions = reasonable doubt.

"That's a lesson to all you little-leaguers out there." -me

[AndyWRXWG]

well I'm glad I got some responces...
first let me tell you the situation. This is a rehab/ new construction condo. So it should be pretty simple and straight forward. The contract, to me, seemed pretty simple and I think it was just a cookie cutter everyday contract. So probably wouldn't take a lot of time to review. I was told to look for a flat rate for this and got a referal for a guy that charged around $450 or so. How does this sound? Thanks for the info guys.

[Streetman]

You're paying $450 to have a lawyer just look at a purchase and alse agreement? Seems high for a review. Is he going to represent you in closing? Do you use title companies in IL, or do lawyers generally close deals there?

You need to provide more info. you said "rehab/ new construction". Those two seem contradictory to me. It's either being built new, or being rehabbed. Rehabs have some serious risk. I no longer rehab. Are you doing the rehab? Buying with the rehab costs built in? Meaning that this company is selling you the house, and rehabbing to your specs? What?

Also, do you have a buyer's agent? Was the house listed with a broker, or FSBO? You're probably looking at a standard P & S used by every realtor in the state. If that's the case, have a buyer's agent represent you. I can give you some advice if I know what you are doing. Chances are, moreso than a lawyer, you need a good inspector. However, need more info to give you advice.

[AndyWRXWG]

ok yes it is a building that has been gutted and is being rebuilt by the owner/seller of the building. I can choose: flooring, cabinets, finish of appliances, and counter tops, and these are all installed by them with 1yr war. It has around 200 or so units in the building(21floors). We will be closing in a title office, and as far as I know the lawyer will be there, I haven't really hired one (unless my wife did it today) so the details are yet to be decided. There is a sales broker working with us and the property was listed through them.

[Streetman]

The sales broker isn't working with you. He works for the seller. You need to be represented by a buyer's agent. I assume since you have a contract, the price has been set. Therefore, it's not going to cost you any more or less to use a buyer's agent.

The seller is paying the cost of the agent. If you bring in a buyer's agent, THEY will be coving that cost, not you. I'm sure if this guy is renovating a 21 story complex, he's factored in that X% of people will use a buyer's agent. If he complains that you're ripping his heart through his wallet, tell him to get over it already, or you'll walk. Hell make the sale, and pay a little more.

The agent will walk you through this whole thing, and work on YOUR side. You'll notice much different advice than what the seller's agent has been telling you. They should know some good RE atty's to use, a good mortgage broker who doesn't make excuses (hard to find), and an inspector who is familiar with this type of inspection. An agent can bring all these people together, and review the standard P & S agreement, with no problem. A lawyer isn't needed at EVERY step. Use when needed. Again, all these people are on YOUR side.

I buy and sell houses for a living. If I have to deal with a seller's agent, you bet your arse, I'm having my agent there. You'll find people in the RE business are the slimiest bunch of rats in the world. Don't go through this trying to create your own RE team. You are going to need someone to do that for you. Someone who has been there, done that, many times.

And how happy are you going to make someone when you call up, and say, "Hi, I found a place, already have the contract signed, I'd just like you to walk me through the closing, and you'll get 3%." Sweet deal for them.

So, go make an agent's day. You'll make it through this with more hair if you have someone fighting your battles with you. Think not? Wait til the first time the mortgage broker calls you and says the rate will stay the same, but they need an extra point at closing, and a $500 doc prep fee. Or, they call the day before closing and say they can't close the deal because of a past due library book that showed up on your credit from 1996. OR, they just keep blowing you off saying, "We're soooo busy, with everyone refinancing now."

Mortgage brokers are the most incompetant of the slimey rats.

Always, always, always refuse to pay "doc prep" or anything like "admin fee". They throw those in to negotiate out later. The points you pay on a loan aren't what they make. They'll make another few points on the back end, when they sell it to another lender. Lying sacks will try to make you feel like you're taking them to the cleaners, unless they charge you out the wazoo.

Can you tell how much I like mortgage brokers?

[Boxer6]

Congrats Andy!!! BTW, does it come with the garage?

[AndyWRXWG]

James... there is a garage, but it's a mass parking garage so not as useful to me, but at least the car won't be out in the acid rain anymore.

Streetman... Thanks for all your advice. The one thing I have going for me was that I have a great morgage broker who gave me some great advice, that basically I should have gotten from the agent. Like making the seller give me a % toward closing cost. She has it set up where I'll be out less than 1K at closing. As for the contract we have an offer in actually a second one in now because we got a call from the agent with the sellers counter to our offer. The funny thing about that is that the agent screwed up when she filled out our contract so the price she gave him was actally 3% less than what we thought we were offering so his counter wasn't much more. So we are countering tomorrow with a price that is actually less than what we thought we were spending anyway. god i love stupid people...... we'll see how it goes, I don't think I'm getting screwed over that much (i guess) and I'm getting pre-construction range prices so I'll be ready to upgrade in less than 4 years so I should come out ok on the deal.