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Old 09-29-2003, 03:41 AM   #1
IA Performance
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Default Updated BLOWN motor pics

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm. Detonation under hi PSI and nitrous equals a bent/snapped connecting rod. The rings are fine though, go figure.



I'm thinking about bronzing it and wearing it on a necklace.
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Old 09-29-2003, 03:45 AM   #2
z
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That'd be some nice bling bling.
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Old 09-29-2003, 04:15 AM   #3
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Why bronze? If you're going to wear it around, chrome that mofo!

Nice clean break (well, as far as breaks go). Did it take the rest of the block with it as well?
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Old 09-29-2003, 04:16 AM   #4
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I can make 2 necklaces and a set of earrings with all of the pistons. Other 3 are fine.

Cylinder #4 failed, 1,2,3 are all fine unlike I first thought.
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Old 09-29-2003, 04:32 AM   #5
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Well, it drove 50 miles like this The connecting rod twisted and broke down by the craft shaft. It wedged itself in the crank so no rods were slinging around. In the last 50 feet of its life some metal shard came around and knocked a hole in the block. When you move the motor on the engine stand you can hear metal chunks in the oil pan
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Old 09-29-2003, 06:32 AM   #6
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All I can say is OUCH!!!
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Old 09-29-2003, 06:16 PM   #7
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Old 09-29-2003, 06:58 PM   #8
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If there's nothing wrong with the block you can weld up that hole, right?
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Old 09-29-2003, 07:02 PM   #9
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Wrong. The block will never be balanced again. Not to mention that is a pretty large hole. If it were just a crack you could JB Weld it closed (there goes the jeeper in me talking again)
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Old 09-29-2003, 07:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by jblaine
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Old 09-29-2003, 07:42 PM   #11
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Do you feel this is a warranty issue?

LOL
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Old 09-29-2003, 08:05 PM   #12
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I believe SOA should be held responsible for the replacement of the shortblock.

Matt
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Old 09-29-2003, 08:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: Updated BLOWN motor pics

Quote:
Originally posted by East Coast Scooby
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm. Detonation under hi PSI and nitrous equals a bent/snapped connecting rod. The rings are fine though, go figure.



I'm thinking about bronzing it and wearing it on a necklace.
Deja Vu



Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
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Old 09-29-2003, 08:30 PM   #14
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I think trq snapped that guy... There are zero signs of any detonation on the plugs or on the piston. The rings look perfect and the bore looks perfect. Not a single metal flake or hot spot.. Just smooth even carbon. All the other motors I have torn down that have been killed by det have had these signs.. that rod has a gentle twist to it and a clean break.


Clark
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Old 09-29-2003, 10:42 PM   #15
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Default fracture surface

If the broken end of the rod is not all beat up from impact with the other piece of the rod, can you post a sharp picture of the fracture surface itself.

The appearence of the fracture can tell you a lot about how or why it broke.

Needs to be a high resolution close up to be of much value.

Larry
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Old 09-29-2003, 11:00 PM   #16
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Well, my camera can't do up close that well on hi res. The break is 90% very very clean. Like a knife was taken to it. tip to the far right is bent over and has some twisted nature.

I do feel that detonation happened. Just one big TING and it was over. Enough back pressure (det) with the power I was running would probably shear a rod just like this one. Who knows. I'm still degreesing the little booger so I can eventually use it as a paper weight for my BIG arse stack of bills due to it

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Old 09-29-2003, 11:41 PM   #17
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That really sucks man, but now you could probably look at doing an STi block w/forged internals... unexpected and probably unwanted upgrade, but thems the breaks, huh?

Good luck with whatever you plan to do man, sorry that happened
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Old 09-30-2003, 12:10 AM   #18
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funny you should mention it. I have a US sti block sitting next to my car. As well as a JDM 6spd, and JDM v7 heads with JUN race cams in them. Let the rebuilding begin.
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Old 09-30-2003, 12:18 AM   #19
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Default what I was looking for

Okay I think from what you say and what I can see that it was a single over load that broke the rod.

What I was looking for is a pattern of "beach marks" that are formed if the fracture starts at a surface or internal defect. If that is the cause of the failure you will see a series of faint marks that look a bit like high water marks on a beach. Each is a little larger than the next. That pattern is indicative of a failure that grows over time from a weak point.

A dull gray "grainy" mat like appearence that is quite uniform in appearence is usually formed when the piece is "yanked" apart by a single high overload. If the force is very rapidly applied the break will be clean. If the force is applied slowly then the failed part will neck down a bit as it stretches before it breakes.

The way it broke on one side and then bent and pulled apart on the other would lead me to suggest your con rod bearing tied up. ( is the bearing screwed or is it okay??)
If so the rod was broken as the big end tried to turn with the crank shaft. Kind of like rapidly bending a green stick. It would fracture on the outside of the bend and remain connected on the inside of the bend. If the con rod bolts hold then the only place to give is in the body of the con rod.


There may be other indicators that would prove that theory wrong, but if you look carefully at all the pieces and witness marks where thing are nicked and so on, you should be able to at least elimnate a few options if not prove the mode of failure.

If you can chase down a local metallurgist and or someone at an industrial bearing house you can probably learn a lot about what and how it failed.

A few phone calls could get you in touch with someone local who would help you for free, (ie a local college professor of engineering -- hint )

Larry
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Old 09-30-2003, 12:21 AM   #20
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Default trick the camera

You might be able to trick the camera into taking a clear picture if it is an auto focus camera.

Take a heavy piece of cardboard and cut a hole just large enough for the end of the con rod to stick through.

Position the cardboard so it is exactly even with the surface of the break. The camera will focus for the major (average) surface it sees, and should give you a clear pic.

Larry

Last edited by hotrod; 09-30-2003 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 09-30-2003, 12:36 AM   #21
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Default examples


Last edited by hotrod; 09-30-2003 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 09-30-2003, 02:05 AM   #22
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Larry. Nice info.. The rod caps are intact and the big end is still connected to the crank. Its a fracture with a twist. Its as if the piston rotated in the bore to twist the rod. Very odd in appearance. I have seen quite a few busted EJ205's and in every case of a rod failure I have seen piston damage or signs of det.. Metal balls, cuts, blast patterns, damaged spark plugs ect.. This one is clean as a whistle but the rod was broken.

I have only seen rod twist(not in the direction the crank spins like in a siezed bearing situation but cross twist..) in one other motor... It was a 1300 CC Hyabusa engine running 400whp turbo charged. The engine developed a metalic rattle sound. When torn down all four rods where twisted... No det was ever heard and there where zero signs of det on the pistons. It was concluded that it was massive trq that bent the rods. Its easier to twist a rod then it is to push it down straight I guess... some windage is occuring on the piston some how..

If Stephen wants he can take this piston to the local Catpillar tractor dealership and show it to the master engine builders. Some of these guys have worked rebuilding Cats for 30 years + and since alot of Cat rods are aluminum we could get a better idea of what happend.

Its very possible that it was preignition that sent a massive shock wave down as the piston was rising that bent and then snapped this rod.. #4 almost always fails because it runs the hottest. I see no signs of a hot spot on the piston but it could have been a glowing valve or spark plug tip... Who knows..

Clark
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Old 09-30-2003, 02:27 AM   #23
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Default rod twist

Lateral (axial) twist on the con rod is a bit unusual. If the rod had any twist in it for an extended period of time you will see odd wear patterns on the rod bearings when you get that big end off. Any twist in the rod will cause uneven loads on the bearings.
(the rods should have been checked for straightness, and twist during the engine build)

You may be right if somehow ignition occured right at TDC the only way to go would be for the wrist pin to bend, or buckle the con rod.

If you take a thin wood dowel and press down on one end of it you will see it either buckle at the middle of the free span or take a double bend like an "S".

If your pressure is even slightly off vertical the dowel will turn and twist as it buckles so the bending occurs in the easiest plane.


Hmmmm I will have to ponder that a bit. I can't think of a simple theory off the top of my head.

Does that big end turn freely or is it screwed up enough to be very tight on the journal.

I seem to recall someone else a while back who blew an engine, and when they tore it down, they had to pound the wrist pin out because it was bent slightly.

If you remember our many bloody discussions about torsional vibration on the crank shaft --- I wonder if these rods are a bit too flexible in torsion and under high load they are twisting slightly to absorb part of the energy ??

Larry

[edit]
were these rods re-used from a blown engine -- could they have had near failure damage from a previous engine build, or were they factory new rods?

Last edited by hotrod; 09-30-2003 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 09-30-2003, 12:31 PM   #24
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Factory 03 WRX wagon engine. I think it had around 8000 miles on it. Stephen can post mileage.. It was a perfect running engine that was producing double stock hp without the nitrous.

The Big end is attached to the crank still. I can see it through the hole in the top of the block It looks to be wedged to the Fillet because it is bent over a bit. Remember, After stephen snapped that rod off, he drove the car 50 miles back to my house from the drag strip It stopped making a clanking sound somewhere along the way

I dont have the energy to tear this block down. Maybe Stephen will do it. It makes a huge mess when you split the cases The last two motors that had #4 fail with a busted rod have had major piston/ring damage from the det and or a locked or schorched big end bearing. This one is odd....

When Stephen blows up his new motor (v7 heads/Jun cams/US 2.5 STI block) we can have more fun at his expense looking at the damage... I cant wait



Clark
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Old 09-30-2003, 03:24 PM   #25
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lovely, no blown new motor for me :P

The total mileage on the block was about 14K miles. Regular servicing, etc. I had just about every single supporting mod for this setup, including a bottle heater(what led to the demise)

Clark and I tried to get the 'big end' to move but even with a large screw driver through the engine sleeve we couldn't pry it from it between the fillets. I'll be dragging her home this weekend and most likey cracking it in two now that I'll have unlimited access to saw dust (oil galore on the ground).

Last edited by East Coast Scooby; 09-30-2003 at 03:34 PM.
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