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Old 09-27-2000, 10:45 PM   #1
Kevin Thomas
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Lightbulb Primitive Motorsports/Cobb Tuning/JC Sports???

Are you guys going to be bringing your cars out to the import drag racing events so that we can see the result of what you've built? I know JC has been on the track and Primitive Motorsports is about rallying but I've noticed alot of tuners bringing cars to represent them at the events.

If not, I sure as hell could use a sponsor. *hint...hint* I would love to see/hear/read about your car's tearing up the tracks and representing Subarus on the scene.
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Old 09-27-2000, 10:47 PM   #2
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kinda on the same lines... what ever happened to the DYNO DAY?? did JC back out of it??
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Old 09-28-2000, 06:05 AM   #3
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Msg erased by Diz, please ignore....

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Old 09-28-2000, 07:21 AM   #4
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I know I'll catch a lot of flak for this, but our cars weren't built to be drag racers. I don't know about the auto tranny, but repeatedly dragging with the manual transmission, especially with a stronger clutch is a surefire way to destroy the transmission. Our trannies aren't known for their strength. I've spoken to 4 Certified Subaru Mechanics (all whom like my car) about the subject; both dealerships have had to repair/replace transmissions on several cars that were constantly drag raced, naturally aspirated!

I wouldn't even consider drag racing my car without a BPM gear set.

It's much cheaper to pick up a cheap Camaro or Mustang and mod the hell out of it since they were built to go fast in a straight line. It's in the twisties and in poor weather where our cars shine.

This isn't to say that our cars can't make good drag racers; they can, most definitely not on the stock transmission, naturally aspirated or not.

Just my $.02

p.s. - I had a transmission overhauled merely because the clutch I was using (Clutchmasters Stage-4) was too grippy...it was only drag-raced 3 times...that was enough to cause the transmission to fail 5 months later, after normal, everyday driving.


-Geoff
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Old 09-28-2000, 07:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
It's much cheaper to pick up a cheap Camaro or Mustang and mod the hell out of it since they were built to go fast in a straight line.
That actually is the point of the big budget Import Drag scene. It hasn't been done before. It's a challenge. The cars weren't meant to be drag raced.

Now, besides some fairly wealthy racer getting into it for the hell of it, the only way to get funding for a serious drag effort is through sponsorship. If someone wanted to sponsor a drag Impreza, that car would already exist. It actually wouldn't surprise me if some were being built, but the limiting factor is Impreza sales. No market, no sponsors.
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Old 09-28-2000, 07:27 AM   #6
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So anyway, Kevin, don't expect JC Sports, Cobb Tuning, or anyone else to get involved in the drag scene unless they can make it profitable. Anything else would be stupid.
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Old 09-28-2000, 07:31 AM   #7
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I know Trey is doing One Lap this year so right there says he'll have it out at the strip at least a few times...
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Old 09-28-2000, 01:38 PM   #8
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Smile

I know our cars ain't built for drag racing. That's the challenge. I am just seeing if our tuners were up the the challenge. Im having the time of my life doing it.

I did enjoy autoxing the few times that I did (Thanks SteveS and others who got me to come out and try it).

A little to late to ask this now since the WRX's are coming out. Really no point in pushing the 2.5RS I guess. Oh well! Take care anyways!

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Old 09-28-2000, 01:51 PM   #9
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Colin,
Sure, any die-hard drag racer who has a huge wad of cash burning a hole in their pocket and/or doesn't care about their Subaru warranty OR using the car as a daily driver, sure - Get BPM's Stage-3 tranny, Clutchmaster's Stage-5 (They make one for the Impreza - non sprung hub), LSDs in the front and rear, the TEC-II, Cobb's camshafts, new axles, throw out the interior, throw on some drag slicks and yeah, you have one HELL of a good drag car out of a car that wasn't designed to be a drag car. However you can get an old V8 RWD car doing similar times for less than 1/2-1/3 the total cost of doing up the Impreza. Anyway, that's a moot point.

I'm referring to people who use their cars as their daily drivers who like to race on weekends for fun or whatnot. I'm going out on a limb and assuming that not everyone has the cash to own one Impreza, drag-prepared, and another for streeting.

As is, STOCK a Mustang and Camaro/Firebirds are better drag cars.
I'm not a big V8 fan, but I at least know what they're made for in stock form.

I'll haul a futon in the back of my wagon and leave them in my wake once the turns come up, though.

-Geoff


[This message has been edited by SabreLion (edited September 28, 2000).]
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Old 09-28-2000, 04:00 PM   #10
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Have you guys ever taken a ride in a mustang GT or a Camaro Z28....or better yet the Cobra or SS???
Those 4 cars totally stock out corner and accelerate my 2000 RS hands down...
no comparison what so ever!
The V6's ah now theres a good race.
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Old 09-28-2000, 04:06 PM   #11
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whenever there is an import drag at Bandimere JC Sports is there. I never go (think straing line racing is boring), but they always set up a booth. They even have windshield banners for "Team JC Sports"
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Old 09-29-2000, 12:49 AM   #12
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I remember reading the same thing 8 did...on Trey's site, he says he's rewarding the top Subaru Imprezas in One Lap of America with cash, no? So there you go.

Unfortunately, we're not quite mainstream enough to receive the same sponsorship as the Civic/DSMs do/did from the big "import companies".

The new WRX may change that, but I don't foresee Subaru ever trying to "out-Honda" Honda as one of their execs put it.
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Old 09-29-2000, 09:11 AM   #13
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I went for a ride in a friend's '95 Cobra. My Outback Sport is faster and handles MUCH, MUCH better....hauls more, can off-road...is better in the rain...but cost a bit more as well. He got his 'stang used, my Subie was new. He recently got rid of it and got a truck for work...he said he'd have gotten a Subaru if they made them here like mine is. -Geoff
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Old 09-29-2000, 11:52 AM   #14
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Well, it wasn't JC sports that backed down, it was the other tuners. I have a FULL JC Sports kit on my car and I plan to go down to UPRD and do a Dyno run in a month or two after I get a new clutch and like two other things installed in my car. I will Post up Dyno charts when I do. It will be interesting I think because I have really put the kit together on my own without the help of any tuners. This means it will show what ANYONE can do.

Kyle
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Old 09-29-2000, 03:28 PM   #15
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Lightbulb

Here we go again with the, "Our cars ain't designed for dragracing". Well, I got news for you. The 2.5RS ain't designed for handling either. Sure you can change the sway bars and tires to make it handle better and all but straight from the factory, our imprezas suck.

They were designed to be decent AWD cars with average handling. If it was 'designed' to handle from the factory, you wouldn't have gotten the crappy tires, sway bars and other stuff that takes away from your handling?

It seems so many people are either blind or brainwashed here. I don't care if I get flamed for this. Our imprezas are not designed to handle nor be a drag car period. That's why damn near everytime you see a stock Impreza (a 2.5RS in particular) in a handling test, it gets its arse kicked. Damn near everytime!

Come on Sabrelion! Didn't you read the latest SCC? The 2000 Mustang GT was in a comparison with an 2000 Acura Integra Type R. It CRUSHED the Integra in handling hands down. In two different handling scenarios it beat the Integra. It also beat the ITR in the straights. What are you talking about? The Acura Intergra Type R is built for handling. The Toyota Celica is built to handle, with a little given away for comfort. The 2.5RS is not built to handle. It can be made to handle but from the factory, it's handling sucks.

If you are a good driver, of course you will be able to coaxed the car into giving you good lap times. If you are a good driver, you can make a Geo Metro take out some cars it shouldn't have. I am talking about the car itself.

From the factory the 2.5RS handling sucks and it is not built to handle, Period. Now show me some magazine articles that show how sweet it handles against cars that are built to handle, even mediocre handling cars. *sigh*

BTW: This bullshi* always happen. I was only asking if some tuners are going to bring some cars out to the dragstrips to represent a little bit. I wasn't saying anything about how the cars handle or its purpose when it was built. Can't some of you people just stay on the subject?

NOW...if you want a good handling car that is built to handle straight from the factory, buy a Type R, Celica GT-S, Miata and other cars that are made to handle.


*Venting* Excuse me Sabreloin if I came across harsh. Just read an article in the paper today about an international child snatching ring in Italy that stole little kids, raped them and killed them. Then they sold the tapes of what they did over the internet for 10k-20k. I have a 4yr old and it really pissed me off. I know stuff like this goes on but reading it just....just.. If my post sounded senseless earlier, don't bother replying 'cause right now, Im not in my right mind. *Done Venting* Take Care!



[This message has been edited by Kevin Thomas (edited September 29, 2000).]
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Old 09-29-2000, 03:40 PM   #16
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Kyle,

The "other tuners" backed down? Did we read the same thread?

shiv
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Old 09-29-2000, 03:45 PM   #17
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I disagree, Kevin. The 2.5RS has a decent suspension for light gravel use, but it's undersprung for tarmac.

Chances are FHI pulled something out of the parts bin that was stiffer than what's used on the Impreza L but not as stiff as the STi5. (If current STi5 pricing through SOA dealers is any indication, it wasn't cost that made the decision. RS suspension actually costs MORE than STi5 if you can believe that.)

I do agree with your basic premise though that comparing a stock '95 Cobra to a heavily modified OBS is not fair. If someone really thinks ponycars handle that badly, they should try co-driving one at an autocross some time.

Now their driving position sucks, and their suspension design REALLY sucks, but they get the job done. Sure, the big tires are a big part of it.
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Old 09-29-2000, 03:48 PM   #18
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I'd love to see Subaru's representing at some drag events. I don't care if my car was built for it, that's what I want it to do.
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Old 09-29-2000, 04:24 PM   #19
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I'm very interested in getting more involved in drag racing. I sort of have a history with it anyway (RX-7.COM). It takes alot of time and money, though, to get a car competitive. I'd love to do it, but for now, we're focusing our energies into the One Lap. Who knows though, maybe the One Lap car will get transformed into a Drag car after the event?

As for the dyno day, I've already said countless times that I'm there. Just tell me when and where.

Cheers,
Trey
CobbTuning.com

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Old 09-29-2000, 07:18 PM   #20
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We are going to start to get out across the nation within the next year for some exposure. We are currently building a project car that will feature all the performance items we sell/make. As for the DYNO-day, its up in the air. Last time I tried to talk to Shiv he told me to quote:"GO AWAY!" so I will just assume he is not going to do it. There is a four wheel dyno being built in the Denver area from what I hear but that could be heresay, I wont hold my breath...

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Old 09-29-2000, 07:58 PM   #21
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"Kevin",

You truly are a clown and your comments never fail to surprise me. A few days ago, I told you to "go away" when you jumped on the Vishnu TEC-II user forum to, quite obviously, gather competitive info on how your mystical ECU stacked up to the TEC-II. If you want info about your competition, do the research like everyone else. Don't come spreading your stinky seeds in a forum that you have no business being a part of. The forum is designed to provide information to TEC-II users as well as those who are simply interested in discussing engine management and forced induction. It should go without saying that it is not a forum for vendors like yourself to plug their competing (and completely unsubstantiated) wares. Especially a vendor that publically denounced that such a forum was created in the first place.

As for the dyno day, I believe it left it up to you. I publically asked to you contact me if you were seriously interested in organizing a event. Since reserving the dyno for an entire day costs money, I will not organize it myself without commitment for participants. I never heard from you. Do a search to refresh your memory.

As for SCC press, you had your opportunity last year when I agreed to do a Minnam vs. JC turbo comparison test. Your kit never arrived, despite the fact that I postponed the production schedule of the project series by nearly 2 months. And even if I did make a story out of a dyno day (which we never do), you would complain about it as you did with the intake test results. Make a good product and the magazines will come running. Keep spreading the bull doody and smack talking your competition, and no one will have anything to do with you.

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Old 09-30-2000, 07:11 AM   #22
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Kevin,
A sway bar and new tires cost quite a bit less than a stage-3 BPM gear set. As I said, if you have enough money, you can make a good drag racer out of the Impreza using the components I previously mentioned.

If you want to drag race your car, that's entirely up to you; I'm glad you enjoy it.

I lost a transmission due to a few drag races on a puck-style clutch. It didn't immediately destroy the tranny, but it did, eventually. I was out of my car for two months because of it. I DO NOT want to see anyone else to go through what I did because they believe that our cars' MANUAL transmissions will hold up under the rigors of repeated drag racing. Drag racing nails the powertrain; adding handling mods and going through the twisties merely excersizes the suspension.

Bottom line is that, for all intents and purposes, drag racing is very harsh on the stock powertrain and very expensive if something fails. Adding tires and a rear sway bar merely makes the car handle "better" thereby not significantly raising the cost of the car. Chances of failure by adding handling mods are very distant compared to those caused by drag racing on a stock, transmission.

I didn't buy my car because it's the best handling, the fastest, best looking, or best for off-roading. I bought it because with slight mods, it'll handle with some of the best cars out there, with a turbo it'd be quicker and more fun to drive, it looks quite good, CAN off-road, is excellent in the wet and can haul stuff. There are NO cars out there for $28k (The amount I've spent on the car since I've bought it, including tires, installs, etc.) that have the versatility of a Turbo'd, WRX-suspensioned OBS.

If I were looking for merely one thing in a car, I probably wouldn't have gotten the Subaru; I did my research, looked into the Subaru community and saw that a Turbo'd OBS would be exactly the car for me. However, as an all-around vehicle, I'm very happy with the car...it does most everything I ask of it.

RE: The '95 Cobra to '99 modified OBS, I merely wanted to compare how my wagon went in a straight line compared to a 5.0 litre V8. My friend (who's a cop) loved what the Subaru did, especially in the rain. As I said, the Subaru cost a bit more, but I wanted to compare it to a car that was made from the factory to go fast in a straight line.

I don't want to argue, Kevin...hell, our cars are similar in a lot of ways. I know that the auto tranny probably takes better to drag racing than the standard tranny does; I've watched you toast the 'stang in the video you posted; good job. I just don't want any lurkers or anyone who's inexperienced with dragging to think that their cars can do it just by adding a grippier clutch and a turbo. I hope your car keeps running fine with all of the abuse.

As I've said...I've lost a transmission already...and I'm lucky it was covered under warranty.

To answer your question as to handling...I'll present a URL of a New Zealand magazine test of a WRX wagon...same suspension I'll be running after I get back from West Houston Subaru tonight. The total cost of the WRX suspension (KYB GR-2 WRX replacements + 5 door WRX springs, 20mm rear sway and whiteline end links) was ~$720.
http://www.subaru.co.nz/autocar_feat...r_content.html


-Geoff

[This message has been edited by SabreLion (edited September 30, 2000).]
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Old 09-30-2000, 08:00 AM   #23
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Drag Racing is Boring - can think of a better use of time than driving in a straight line for a few seconds - by the way this is aimed at the same people that were giving me a flaming about the short oval import racing question

cheers

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Old 10-01-2000, 03:38 PM   #24
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Wink

-Geoff,

I couldn't agree with you more on your last post. No argument from me. I didn't know you lost a tranny to drag racing. Sorry to hear that man. Warn the masses by all means. I am barely getting to where you car has been for a while now. Your car is still the standard in which I want to get my car up too...Stage II and all.

Drag Racing is boring??? Yeah....I guess it can be for some people. Sorry to hear that. If it wasn't for bracket racing though, I wouldn't have had my turbo and other parts now. The winnings helped me pay for my parts. I still think our cars with AWD is so consistent that people will absolutely HATE to see you pull up and bracket race against them. You should see them switch lanes to avoid racing me...LOL...especially when my car ran in the high 17's to mid 18's. It's very competitive...and yada...yada..yada.. You've heard it all before so I won't waste my breathe. Have fun!



[This message has been edited by Kevin Thomas (edited October 01, 2000).]
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Old 10-01-2000, 06:54 PM   #25
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After installing a new fuel pump in the free Silvia yesterday I got to find out that they are fast in the straights and handle great as well. I still intend to weld the rear axles for drifting but even some what stock its a hell of a good car. And with a cost to me of $0 its the best second car around. I think too many people think of the old 70's led sleds when they think of V8's and handling. Yes the Impreza has a weak tranny from the factory. So did alot of cars. If you do enough hard launches in a JDM WRX or STI you will still lose your tranny or rear end. If Kevin wants to race is in a straight line then fine. Good luck Kevin and show em what your A/T can do. If you intend to seriously race any car you might want to find a cheap second car for those tiems taht it breaks down. I know its reliable but eventually something will go wrong. Whether its your fault or not things will break. It would be nice to see alot of tuners and parts suppliers/manufacturers out at the events. Its usually a better way to sell things and get support then a simple webpage.
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