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Old 10-09-2003, 08:44 PM   #1
SlowSTi
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Question Who makes 321 stainless equal-length header?

From my research, 321 stainless seems to be the "proper" material to use for headers on turbocharged cars. Most of the headers, including the one I really like - Maxim Works, are 304 stainless.

The only 321 stainless header for our cars that I have found is made by B&B. I am not very excited about it because the collector doesn't "look good" and it's not equal length.

Collector design is pretty important to me.

So, who makes a 321 stainless equal-length header for a 2004 WRX STi?

Thanks.
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Old 10-10-2003, 03:46 PM   #2
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Anyone knows?
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Old 10-10-2003, 04:03 PM   #3
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GP MOTO does..

Heres the install on my car. Let me know if you have any more questions or are interested in one.


GP MOTO header

Ashley
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Old 10-10-2003, 04:09 PM   #4
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It looks awesome.

I am looking for 321 stainless and 4-into-1 design though.

I believe the GP MOTO is 304 stainless and 4-2-1 design.
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Old 10-10-2003, 04:15 PM   #5
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yea it is 4-2-1 and 304. I dont know of any more 321 aside from the one you mentioned.

Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 10-10-2003 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 10-10-2003, 04:24 PM   #6
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He isn't looking for 3-2-1 (don't know how that would work). He's looking for something made out of 321 stainless instead of 304 stainless. It is nice that someone (B&B) finally started making a 321 header though. Although I don't think I've really heard of people having issues with 304 headers (that would be solved with 321) so maybe its not that big a deal.
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Old 10-10-2003, 04:26 PM   #7
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that came out wrong.. I was eating my lunch 3-2-1 wouldn't work... unless it was on a geo metro
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Old 10-10-2003, 04:32 PM   #8
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With the high temperature, I am not sure how well the 304 stainless is going to hold up. For close to stock configuration, it's probably not a big issue. For high hp application, things might be different.

I wonder what header WRC cars use...
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Old 10-10-2003, 04:46 PM   #9
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I have the gt spec 304 stainless header on my car and it works great. How high of hp are you talking. I am looking for over 500 to the wheels with my car and i dont think that 304 is going to be a problem. 304 will hold its properties well over what we can run through it. I has a 1400-1500 F continuous working temperature and a 2300 F fatigue temperature where the tensile strenght will drop 50%. ( still acceptable. )

If you look here: It shows the continuous running temperatures of 304 and 321 and they are only 100 F apart. Take in mind those are running temperatures. You exhaust sees much less then that running and about that when running your engine hard.

http://www.ces.clemson.edu/chemeng/uolab/metal4.htm

My set up.



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Old 10-10-2003, 05:43 PM   #10
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I wonder why I hear about these header cracking stories on 304 stainless.

On the other hand, I speculate it might be improper design rather than material.

I am only talking about 500 crank hp or so...

STEALTH-WRX, your setup looks great!!
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Old 10-10-2003, 05:47 PM   #11
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Cracking is a result of to much stress on the header itself. If you have proper mounts then it will never be an issue. You hear alot of problems when the turbo is resting competely on the turbo manifold and has no supports to hold it to the motor. Most of the bolt on systems offered utilize your factory mounts that bolt to the top of the up pipe or one piece turbo manifold. As long as you use those, your good to go and problem free. Pm me anytime if you have technical questions.
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Old 10-10-2003, 05:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by STEALTH-WRX
Cracking is a result of to much stress on the header itself. If you have proper mounts then it will never be an issue. You hear alot of problems when the turbo is resting competely on the turbo manifold and has no supports to hold it to the motor. Most of the bolt on systems offered utilize your factory mounts that bolt to the top of the up pipe or one piece turbo manifold. As long as you use those, your good to go and problem free. Pm me anytime if you have technical questions.
word to what stealth said. If the header is improperly mounted, or even a DP for that matter, It can break at the flange after repetitative heat cycling. 321 is costlier material, w\ slightly different properties. But not necessarily needed for a header application.
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Old 10-10-2003, 06:10 PM   #13
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The only time i would suggest using 321 is if i had a rotory motor. They can produce some crazy heat.
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Old 10-10-2003, 06:13 PM   #14
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I have seen some hardcore headers from Japan. Do you think we will see Titanium headers for our cars?
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Old 10-10-2003, 06:30 PM   #15
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lol At the prices of japanese stainless steel headers, a titanium one would be $2500+ Im sure someone makes one.
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Old 10-10-2003, 07:32 PM   #16
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Default Ummm as far as metal goes....

I think that the WRC cars use mostly Ni-based super-alloy exausts. The cost is the problem, for sheet matl' (coil) 2x-5x over SS, they form better but also are really gummy in dies and machining.
But they hold much better than 50% UTS at T>2000F (almost to their melting points). (My data sheets are at work or I'd give some specs and actual strengths.) This would be a really good choice since the Anti-Lag basically turns the header/up-pipe into the combustion chamber of a jet engine. And thats what the Ni-(Co & Cr etc) based superalloys were developed for.

I woudn't want my header pipes to experience forces above the yield point at temp. Tensile strength is when failure occurs. Yeild is when things start to bend.

The Ti(and or V) additions to 321 (and 347) ss provide resistance to a phenomenon called sensitization. Sensitization is caused by Cr combining with the C in the steel. These solid Cr-carbide precipitates form along grain boundaries. This then can result in Stress Corrosion Cracking and Intergranular Corrosion. Also the mechanical properties change vastly as the C is removed from solution in the Fe.

SCC is accelerated by the presence of Cl.

Road Salt produces Cl ions in water.

However 304L stainless is much more common on the market (from what I hear I dont use that particular grade) and since the C content is so low sensitization is much lower thou not prevented totally.

As to the header faiures due to cracking they would likely have to be properly examined in place at the time of failure to really know for sure why. SCC does (IIRC) produce a charecteristic fracture surface, a good met-lab w/ sem could possibly tell you.


nick


( my choices would be:

A Ni based alloy, I'll look one up tomorrow.

347/321 SS (321 is marginally better)

Weight no object: grey cast iron bout a grade 50 or so w/ large well distributed graphite flakes.

316L

304L

304

316

409 (most stock exausts are made of this now)

Aluminized Carbon Steel

)
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Old 10-11-2003, 02:27 AM   #17
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Inconel = the best
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Old 10-11-2003, 03:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by STEALTH-WRX
Inconel = the best
inconel is what the exhaust turbine on your turbos are generally made of.
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