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Old 10-21-2000, 06:28 PM   #1
ludespeed
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Lightbulb Considering making a bolt-on turbo kit - please post/email your comments/interest

I have made a prototype turbo kit on a 99RS. I am interested in prodicing a full blown bolt-on turbokit that is fully equiped. I am not making them yet because I have '0' customers so far.
So if Impreza enthusiasts like the members here are considering turbo and do not want to pay $4k+ for a Minnam Kit, I want to offer a kit that will perform as well but will be priced a little friendlier.
For more info, please see my small website that I dedicated to the kit: http://turbo_25rs.tripod.com

If it peaks your interest, please post that interest here along with any concerns or feel free to email me.

Thanks,
Tom
tom@ludespeed.com
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Old 10-21-2000, 07:16 PM   #2
Overtime
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All you people daring to deal with Minnam should be lining up for this sort of thing. Especially at the price he's offering. $3300 USD with the top mounted I/C.
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Old 10-21-2000, 07:24 PM   #3
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I might also suggest one of two strategies for this kit:

1: Offer just a bare mechanical kit, as many of the people on this board have invested in some form of aftermarket engine management, like a Vishnu PEMS TEC-2 or a Haltech or Motec ECU. Take out the Apexi AFC and knock the price down commensurately

2: Integrate said engine management into the kit. I, for one, won't put the money into something like that without some sort of all encompassing engine management. I'm not keen on the idea of having a flock of piggyback or voltage altering gadgets trying to trick the stock ECU into thinking it's controlling a naturally aspirated engine.
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Old 10-21-2000, 08:27 PM   #4
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I agree But maybe just for the stage 1 include a EGT guage, and a Turbo timer (that is imprtant) and for the stage 2 inlude either a TEC-II or all the other nessasary gizmos, FPR, J&S knock sensor, ITC and so forth.

[This message has been edited by imprezive (edited October 21, 2000).]
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Old 10-21-2000, 08:33 PM   #5
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I'd rather not have any gauges or piggybacks with a turbo kit. I either have all that stuff already or I'd rather pick out my own gauges. A turbo timer isn't necessary and what's the point of an EGT gauge if you don't have anything to tune it with?
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Old 10-21-2000, 08:38 PM   #6
david2z4
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I agree with Digital_Boy. Also I would want it to work on a 2000 RS. Like to see the finished product. Ceramic coatings and IC.
Are you going to protect the CV joint boot from the heat?


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Old 10-22-2000, 07:34 AM   #7
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Lightbulb

I like some of the others would be more interested in a kit that included the turbo, wastgate, BOV, top-mounted IC, and all fittings/piping needed, with NO electronics or fuel management.

I would rather get the tec-II w/ 550 injectors and pick out my own guages, than have them supplied with a turbo kit.

Keep us updated.

Aaron
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Old 10-22-2000, 08:46 AM   #8
ludespeed
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Like in most "car people" circles, I am assuming that not everyone can afford another $1500+ for the TEC-II or Haltech unit.
Also, I do not have the time, capability or desire to put together an entire engine management system taylored for the Subaru.
I focus more an the mechanical workings of the turbo system. There are other companies that offer the engine management that is already tuned for turbo use (Vishnu).

Of course every package will have additional options and if someone does not want the Fuel comtroller, that makes it that much easier for me to get the kit together. I do not make money on the individual parts like the gauges or fuel computer so it is fine if someone does not want it for a cheaper kit price.

The Fields and APEXi fuel computers should not be put down or overlooked as a valuable tool. You get an INCREDIBLE amount of tuning for the $300 that the units cost. The combination of the fuel computer and EGT will give you 90% or more of the fuel tuning that you could do with the TEC-II. That is a bold statement but I have seen both of them in action and I am thoroughly impressed with them. I have the APEXi S-AFC in my turbo car and I love it. It was SO easy to install, SO easy to tune and offers ALOT of flexibility as far as adjustments.

The cheaper fuel computers and gadgets to trick the ECU is a cost effective way to get GOBS of power out of a motor with an ECU that was programmed to run NA. I know the following statement might get me into a little trouble but it has to be said - There are street driven 10&11 second Hondas that use these methods. Their formula is: Checkvalve for the MAP sensor, larger injectors, and an APEXi S-AFC (along with fuel system and ignition enhancements.)
and they run boost up to 28psi with that combo.

It is nice to have total engine management, but I don't think everyone can afford that or wants to go that route.

I WILL NOT be offering the TEC-II with the kit. That is beyond the scope that I want to get into. I am not going to be a Subaru specialist. The mechanics of a performance turbo kit are the same for everycar: **Efficient exhuast & fresh air flow to and from to turbo while maintaining the proper A/F ratio**
That can easily be accomplished with simple tuning when the boost is kept around 8psi.
The kit that I am offering will do everything it is supposed to up to 5-6psi non-intercooled and 8-9 psi intercooled.
If it is your objective to run higher boost, then you need to upgrade the management the way you feel best.
I have talked to too many people that spend too much money (in my opinion) on engine management only to run 10psi. I run 15psi on my car with the combo of larger injectors and the APEXi S-AFC and MSD BTM. That is $500 in electronics and I am getting 300HP to the wheels out of a 2.0 liter STOCK motor.

So, that is my view on the whole engine management thing. I do not feel it is neccesary for the average enthusiast that wants turbo on their RS. And since Vishnu offers the TEC-II by itself, it can easily be obtained by anyone that wnats it and has the money to spend.

If you would like to see some good examples of turbo RS's that use the APEXi S-AFC, got to http://www.lagging.com
There is also a member here that just installed the JC Stage 2 kit. He has pics posted in the Puerto-Rico region forum from 10/19 . He also uses the S-AFC to run 12psi.
It is VERY agruably a cost effective solution for tuning the fuel.

Tom


[This message has been edited by ludespeed (edited October 22, 2000).]
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Old 10-22-2000, 10:50 AM   #9
Overtime
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I know that *I'M* waiting for the dyno charts.

Keep us posted!
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Old 10-22-2000, 10:58 AM   #10
ludespeed
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How the hell am I going to get the Scooby on a dyno?!?! I don't think so.
What I can get you is timeslips. And with AWD, it makes running consistantly at the track alot easier than a regular FWD car so the times should give you an idea of the power that is being made.
My largest obstacle in getting the car to the track is getting the owner to take it there He is VERY afraid of breaking something and I can't say that I blame him.
My car is 12 years old and I have spare motors and trannies laying around, but he doesn't have the same luxury. If he breaks something, he's screwed and he knows it so he it worried. But I think if I bother him enough, then he will go.
Tom


[This message has been edited by ludespeed (edited October 22, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by ludespeed (edited October 22, 2000).]
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Old 10-22-2000, 11:09 AM   #11
JC
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If you have an automatic, you can switch it to FWD and dyno it. Or you can have the manual temporarily switch to RWD by Cobb Tuning.
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Old 10-22-2000, 11:55 AM   #12
Strepto
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I like what Tom's offering. It's nice that you've offered to lower the price if things are not need like SFAC. I look forward to the pics of the IC.
All-in-all how much boost is the T3 capable of producing while still remaining efficient?
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Old 10-22-2000, 02:22 PM   #13
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thanks for the info Tom. Nice to see more options hanging out there. I knew if I waited to get a turbo there'd be a bigger market for me
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Old 10-22-2000, 03:23 PM   #14
TR
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I agree with you tom that getting the car on a dyno is impractical for you. dont worry about people asking for dyno results, it is almost always the 1st thing that is requested (justifiably so given the cost of any forced induction). The 1/4 mile is not a bad way to go. heck, even Minnam's site had 1/4 times on it. their HP #'s were purely theoretical. as long as the drag was done on an otherwise stock car. (not stipped out with aluminum body panels )

well, thanks for putting the kit together. look foward to seeing it with an intercooler.

BTW, do you plan to use an IHI turbo? what type of wategate do you have planned?
thanks...
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Old 10-22-2000, 03:44 PM   #15
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Don't take me the wrong way, Tom.

I'm just interested in comparing all-motor power gains with your turbo kit.

If you can churn out mid 13s then I will be ecstatic, especially at the prices listed on your site. I'm sure everyone else will be too...
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Old 10-22-2000, 06:39 PM   #16
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I do not plan on using th IHI turbo because even rebuilt IHI turbos cost ALOT!!!!!!!
Another thing is reliability of them. I was actually talking to my turbo supplier the other day about them and he said that the worst thing about the Subaru IHI turbos is that they have a hollow shaft and tend to bend under high loads. Needless to say, NOBODY wants their turbo shaft to bend. I feel that the Garrett models have more than proven themselves as great turbos and they don't cost much and parts are easily available. That way, if something should happen to your turbo (oops, that missing nut fell into the turbo inlet pipe ), it won't be that costly to fix.
I have not made a definite decision on the wastegate yet. However, I do not believe that an external WG is always best. It is if you run more than 15psi and are racing the car and need to get every possible HP out of it. I currently run 15 psi with an internal wastegate and manual boost controller and have not had any problems. An internal wastegate just simplifies things even further so that might be the way the kit comes. If so, then the external WG will be an option for sure.
(I am not claiming to run 15 psi on a Subaru motor. I drive a Honda Prelude. I don't want anyone to have any misconceptions)
AS far as track times, the stock clutch CANNOT be expected to put the car into the 13's and neither can the stock exhaust. But with modifying those 2 items with the intercooled kit at 8psi, 13's will be no problem, that I am sure of. I am sure because it has been done before.
Hopefully I can light a fire under Brice and get him to put some more time&money into his car and get the intercooler on and get the car to the track. We will see, I talked to him about it today. Hopefully I can get him to go next Friday and hopefully he will run at least 14's with the non-intercooled kit at 4.5 psi. I don't think he will have a problem running that fast, his car is VERY quick.
Tom


[This message has been edited by ludespeed (edited October 22, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by ludespeed (edited October 22, 2000).]
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Old 10-22-2000, 09:24 PM   #17
Red RS
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Im very interested in a turbo kit.
But I'd prefer a smaller T-28 for a faster spool.
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Old 10-23-2000, 12:01 AM   #18
ludespeed
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It is a manual and getting it switched by a company in Texas is not even a remote possibility.
1/4 mile times are going to be the only "certification" I will be able to offer on the power being made.
Basically, if we can run 13.5's at 8-9 psi with the intercooled kit, then I will be happy. That is basically the goal and it will show that power is comparable to the Minnam Kit as seen on lagging.com: http://www.lagging.com/subaru/rsresults.htm
Tom


[This message has been edited by ludespeed (edited October 22, 2000).]
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Old 10-23-2000, 12:22 AM   #19
ludespeed
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I run 15psi on the same turbo that I would like to include in the RS kit. But my motor is a 2.0 so I would say 12psi. More boost is possible but it really starts to heat up the air at anything higher than that.
I am currently waiting for my state sales tax number and when I get it, I will get Turbonetics turbos for a cost effective price so chances are that a T04B/T3 turbo will replace the T3. The hybrid turbo will easily push 18psi efficiently.
Tom
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Old 10-23-2000, 11:04 AM   #20
imprezive
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keeping intrest alive becuase I need this guy to keep making the kits for aboout a year and a half. www.geocities.com/subarusurfer/
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Old 10-23-2000, 02:37 PM   #21
Dan_E
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Thumbs up

Yes please! To go! (Check your email Tom)
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Old 10-23-2000, 02:39 PM   #22
Overtime
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The auto is actually made to take more HP than the manual, so I don't see a problem with it. And the MY00 problem can be fixed with a voltage clamp.
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Old 10-23-2000, 02:56 PM   #23
RyanC
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I'd be interested in the kit, not to mention the more options we have as enthusiasts the better we off we are. 1/4 miles times in lieu of dyno results are acceptable given that we know the before/after parameters, but it would be nice if someone lived near a 4 wheel dyno, then maybe they could get a bit of a discount on the kit if they provided you with before/after dyno runs I've seen some VR6 turbos run the T04B, at psi up to 15, without a problem. Mmmm, boost
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Old 10-24-2000, 12:02 AM   #24
Keiho
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For a MY00 auto?
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Old 10-24-2000, 12:06 AM   #25
ludespeed
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Well, that is up to you if you want to put the tranny through the abuse. The actual turbo kit should not be any different except for the way the turbo bracket bolts to the tranny.
Tom
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