a sad day for Civic/SI fans

Mike Smith · 09-27-2000, 11:45 AM

Read in AutoWeek that the new Civic will no longer have the double wishbone suspension and there are no plans for a SI version - this just as Subaru brings the turbo Impreza to the US. Honda says the performance segment is too small to market to. Same thing Mistu said when they "softened" the Eclipse. I'd think this would boost sales of the RS and Celica. What is wrong with people?! Why are SUVs selling like hotcakes and good, affordable, fun-to-drive cars becoming more and more rare?

RidinLow · 09-27-2000, 11:49 AM

Because Americans have always liked cars that are huge on the outside, small on the inside, and are heavy as hell.

SubieFL · 09-27-2000, 11:55 AM

I seen one of the new civics in the parking lot of Premier Outlets in Orlando the other day and all I can say is eeeeeeewwwwwwwwww!

IMHO, the 92-95 civic was the best-looking and sporties with the most potential and it has been downhill since then....and now really downhill.

SUVs suck

The civic was a good car...it will be dearly missed

Has anyone realized how the Lexus IS looks almost exactly like a civic, especially the new civics?

stimpy · 09-27-2000, 11:56 AM

After having been over to Europe, the American car market is WAY different. Out in Europe, there is no such thing as an SUV. There are small turbocharged ugly cars that weigh next to nothing. Biggest cars out there are the luxury cars, and there are hardly any of those. The small car market has been destroyed out here. No sane person will purchase a small, light, fast car here only to be run over by those damned SUV's.

JGard · 09-27-2000, 11:57 AM

i have one of those Lexus' in my household, and it looks NOTHING like a civic. The Lexus absolutely blows every other car i've seen out of the water in terms of looks. if you haven't seen one up close, in preson, you can't judge it

SubieFL · 09-27-2000, 12:02 PM

The same parking lot in the Premier Outlets had a yellow Lexus IS and a light blue 2001 Civic and I got a chance to compare both of them at the same time...I see very little difference.

Everytime I see a Lexus IS I always think it is a Civic first, and then realize it is an IS.

Now, performance is a completely different story.

KooshDogg · 09-27-2000, 12:06 PM

you SERIOUSLY gotta stop smokin that crack if you confuse IS300s with civics, hehe, now an impreza and a dodge shadow i can understand... but COME ON!

ive HEARD that the si will be back, and the civic has improved quite a bit (power delivery/rigidity/size)... but lets jus say the new ludtegra better be DAMN impressive to make up for the gap between the civic and now the s2000

8Complex · 09-27-2000, 12:07 PM

Americans, in general, like big things. Think about it... would you rather see someone blowing up lots of small fireworks on the 4th, or would you rather see a few REALLY big ones? I know which I'd run to see first.

And you forget something... the average American is NOT into driving for pleasure, they are in it for the ability to go faster then their slow-ass walking (with the exception of women at a big sale in a department store).

SubieFL · 09-27-2000, 12:11 PM

Wow! Am I the only one that thinks the Civic and the IS are, at least, a little similar?

Has anyone seen an IS and a new civic right next to each other yet?

OK.......someone get the IS to new civic morph or picture vs. picture going, please.

Impreza.......mistaken for Dodge Shadow?

How about Impreza looking similar to Isuzu Stylus or older Mitsu. Mirage?

Scout · 09-27-2000, 12:15 PM

Well I just got the new copy of SCC and they had an article on the new 2001 Civic. I briefly scanned the article and the specs indicated a new 1.7L engine rated at 127hp which is what the old 1.6L EX (Canadian Si) Coupe was at. Perhaps ina few years they will come out with a tuned 1.7L engine (AFAIK Honda doesn't currently have a 1.7L in their stable) probably in the neighborhood of 170hp. I don't think Honda has abandoned the idea of sporty compact cars in North America, at least I hope not, otherwise who will we race?

JGard · 09-27-2000, 12:17 PM

i've been making a living kickin the crap out of Probes always trying to start crap with me

that's who we can race

MikeYOX · 09-27-2000, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Because Americans have always liked cars that are huge on the outside, small on the inside, and are heavy as hell.

Hey! I resemble that remark! Actually, landbarges like mine are very roomy on the inside. It may be heavy, but that's because of all of the luxury. All luxury cars are heavy. Despite that, it is a performance car.

RidinLow · 09-27-2000, 12:39 PM

Heavy because of all that luxury? Last I checked, leather & wood didn't weigh too much...

Anyway, I meant heavy as in big ladder-frame truck heavy.

mastervic27 · 09-27-2000, 12:43 PM

The New Integra due to debut next fall is rumored to have 220hp derived from the S2000 inline 2.0L which will give the WRX a run for the money. It is also rumored to have one engine choice...much like the Eclipse.

There is also a rumor that the European New Civic Hatch Type-R (~190hp) will be here.

Next year is going to be exciting...believe me.

Rally Man · 09-27-2000, 12:50 PM

Perhaps Honda will be going out of the sporty compact car segment but what about Mazda and Nissan? Mazda will come out with the RX-Evolv and Nissan with the new Z. It we get both of these fine cars trust me you guys will have pleanty of competition. Also each time I see and IS300 from some distance and from the back I think it's an Accord. Dont like that. To many cars running around with those crome back lights.

Edit: Forgot to mention that Mazda will be coming out with a direct copetitor for the BMW 3-series and IS300. It's rummord to have a Renesis engine with 250 na. Here's a pic....

[This message has been edited by Rally Man (edited September 27, 2000).]

EuGeNiLe GTS · 09-27-2000, 04:54 PM

whoa.. the is300 looking like the civic? heh.. thats new..

but seriouly though the 2001 civic looks like a focus from the back.. damn.. and that sucks that theres no more si's.. i loved that electron blue color.. oh well.. honda seems to have lots of stuff in the works.. with the integ..

eugene

samurai · 09-27-2000, 05:23 PM

Now, if that's AWD, I'm sold.. That Mazda that looks like a souped up Protoge that is..

Tim

T-WRX · 09-27-2000, 08:16 PM

Back to the original post . . .

The loss of the double wishbone will only be missed by a select few. 99.99% of the civic buyers never appreciated that their wheels stayed perpindicular to the road under ALL conditions.

Ma and Pa newlywed only care that they have a reliable car that won't lose its resale value.

Sayonara Si, but you haven't been the same since the CRX.

JD

09-27-2000, 08:33 PM

the si can't go. honda just designed that new V-tec motor.

SubyRacer · 09-27-2000, 09:10 PM

the si is comin back in the 2002 model year and the IS 300 not only looks like but is a direct copy of a 3-series beemer

RidinLow · 09-27-2000, 09:38 PM

Matt, what new VTEC motor? The B16 has been around since the Del Slo was here.

EuGeNiLe GTS · 09-27-2000, 09:52 PM

he might be talking about VTEC-i.. like VVTL-i now it has intelligence.. OoOoo but i dont think its gonna show up till the new teg comes out..

eugene..
2k celi-gts-vvtl-i-6speed..

RidinLow · 09-27-2000, 09:56 PM

What makes it intelligent?

I just realized, "VTEC" sure rolls off the tongue a lot better than "VVTL-i!" How do you even pronounce that one!

JGard · 09-28-2000, 01:03 AM

whoa, that's not even close to the many pics i've seen. here

I like this better, and they're saying 276hp

Gambit · 09-28-2000, 01:10 AM

Don't fret y'all civic lovers at heart.

The Si or wutever it will be called will come back in 2002 or something. It's taking a breather.
And yes the IS300 does resemble the new Civic front end. And yes I saw one up close. I like it. It's not ugly. But the rear is just plain dorky. Gimme a bim bim please!

09-27-2000, 11:45 AM	#1
Mike Smith Scooby Specialist Member#: 744 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Middlesex, NY USA Vehicle: 00 BRP RS Coupe 02 Forester, 00 S-10,	a sad day for Civic/SI fans Read in AutoWeek that the new Civic will no longer have the double wishbone suspension and there are no plans for a SI version - this just as Subaru brings the turbo Impreza to the US. Honda says the performance segment is too small to market to. Same thing Mistu said when they "softened" the Eclipse. I'd think this would boost sales of the RS and Celica. What is wrong with people?! Why are SUVs selling like hotcakes and good, affordable, fun-to-drive cars becoming more and more rare?

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09-27-2000, 11:49 AM	#2
RidinLow Scooby Guru Member#: 329 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 1999 C5	Because Americans have always liked cars that are huge on the outside, small on the inside, and are heavy as hell.

09-27-2000, 11:55 AM	#3
SubieFL Scooby Specialist Member#: 1622 Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Orange City, FL, US Vehicle: 2000 Impreza 2.5 RS Silver	I seen one of the new civics in the parking lot of Premier Outlets in Orlando the other day and all I can say is eeeeeeewwwwwwwwww! IMHO, the 92-95 civic was the best-looking and sporties with the most potential and it has been downhill since then....and now really downhill. SUVs suck The civic was a good car...it will be dearly missed Has anyone realized how the Lexus IS looks almost exactly like a civic, especially the new civics?

09-27-2000, 11:56 AM	#4
stimpy Homicidal Maniac Moderator Member#: 1612 Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Lake Town, UT Vehicle: 2008 STI	After having been over to Europe, the American car market is WAY different. Out in Europe, there is no such thing as an SUV. There are small turbocharged ugly cars that weigh next to nothing. Biggest cars out there are the luxury cars, and there are hardly any of those. The small car market has been destroyed out here. No sane person will purchase a small, light, fast car here only to be run over by those damned SUV's.

09-27-2000, 11:57 AM	#5
JGard Pooptastic Member#: 1904 Join Date: Jul 2000 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Salem, MA Vehicle: 2009 WRX Premium 5dr 1991 Mazda Miata	i have one of those Lexus' in my household, and it looks NOTHING like a civic. The Lexus absolutely blows every other car i've seen out of the water in terms of looks. if you haven't seen one up close, in preson, you can't judge it

09-27-2000, 12:02 PM	#6
SubieFL Scooby Specialist Member#: 1622 Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Orange City, FL, US Vehicle: 2000 Impreza 2.5 RS Silver	The same parking lot in the Premier Outlets had a yellow Lexus IS and a light blue 2001 Civic and I got a chance to compare both of them at the same time...I see very little difference. Everytime I see a Lexus IS I always think it is a Civic first, and then realize it is an IS. Now, performance is a completely different story.

09-27-2000, 12:06 PM	#7
KooshDogg Scooby Newbie Member#: 134 Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Washington, DC, USA	you SERIOUSLY gotta stop smokin that crack if you confuse IS300s with civics, hehe, now an impreza and a dodge shadow i can understand... but COME ON! ive HEARD that the si will be back, and the civic has improved quite a bit (power delivery/rigidity/size)... but lets jus say the new ludtegra better be DAMN impressive to make up for the gap between the civic and now the s2000

09-27-2000, 12:07 PM	#8
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 2000 Impreza 2.5RS Silver	Americans, in general, like big things. Think about it... would you rather see someone blowing up lots of small fireworks on the 4th, or would you rather see a few REALLY big ones? I know which I'd run to see first. And you forget something... the average American is NOT into driving for pleasure, they are in it for the ability to go faster then their slow-ass walking (with the exception of women at a big sale in a department store).

09-27-2000, 12:11 PM	#9
SubieFL Scooby Specialist Member#: 1622 Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Orange City, FL, US Vehicle: 2000 Impreza 2.5 RS Silver	Wow! Am I the only one that thinks the Civic and the IS are, at least, a little similar? Has anyone seen an IS and a new civic right next to each other yet? OK.......someone get the IS to new civic morph or picture vs. picture going, please. Impreza.......mistaken for Dodge Shadow? How about Impreza looking similar to Isuzu Stylus or older Mitsu. Mirage?

09-27-2000, 12:15 PM	#10
Scout Scooby Newbie Member#: 1842 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Montreal, Canada	Well I just got the new copy of SCC and they had an article on the new 2001 Civic. I briefly scanned the article and the specs indicated a new 1.7L engine rated at 127hp which is what the old 1.6L EX (Canadian Si) Coupe was at. Perhaps ina few years they will come out with a tuned 1.7L engine (AFAIK Honda doesn't currently have a 1.7L in their stable) probably in the neighborhood of 170hp. I don't think Honda has abandoned the idea of sporty compact cars in North America, at least I hope not, otherwise who will we race?

09-27-2000, 12:17 PM	#11
JGard Pooptastic Member#: 1904 Join Date: Jul 2000 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Salem, MA Vehicle: 2009 WRX Premium 5dr 1991 Mazda Miata	i've been making a living kickin the crap out of Probes always trying to start crap with me that's who we can race

09-27-2000, 12:39 PM	#13
RidinLow Scooby Guru Member#: 329 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 1999 C5	Heavy because of all that luxury? Last I checked, leather & wood didn't weigh too much... Anyway, I meant heavy as in big ladder-frame truck heavy.

09-27-2000, 12:43 PM	#14
mastervic27 Scooby Newbie Member#: 557 Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Bellevue, WA Vehicle: 1999 Impreza 2.5RS Vishnu Turbo	The New Integra due to debut next fall is rumored to have 220hp derived from the S2000 inline 2.0L which will give the WRX a run for the money. It is also rumored to have one engine choice...much like the Eclipse. There is also a rumor that the European New Civic Hatch Type-R (~190hp) will be here. Next year is going to be exciting...believe me.

09-27-2000, 12:50 PM	#15
Rally Man Scooby Newbie Member#: 1181 Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Moreno Valley, California	Perhaps Honda will be going out of the sporty compact car segment but what about Mazda and Nissan? Mazda will come out with the RX-Evolv and Nissan with the new Z. It we get both of these fine cars trust me you guys will have pleanty of competition. Also each time I see and IS300 from some distance and from the back I think it's an Accord. Dont like that. To many cars running around with those crome back lights. Edit: Forgot to mention that Mazda will be coming out with a direct copetitor for the BMW 3-series and IS300. It's rummord to have a Renesis engine with 250 na. Here's a pic.... [This message has been edited by Rally Man (edited September 27, 2000).]

09-27-2000, 04:54 PM	#16
EuGeNiLe GTS Scooby Newbie Member#: 2061 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: USA Vehicle: 2099 Daewoo Elite Metallic Burgandy	whoa.. the is300 looking like the civic? heh.. thats new.. but seriouly though the 2001 civic looks like a focus from the back.. damn.. and that sucks that theres no more si's.. i loved that electron blue color.. oh well.. honda seems to have lots of stuff in the works.. with the integ.. eugene

09-27-2000, 05:23 PM	#17
samurai Scooby Newbie Member#: 696 Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Union City, CA USA Vehicle: 2005 WRX STi Aspen White	Now, if that's AWD, I'm sold.. That Mazda that looks like a souped up Protoge that is.. Tim

09-27-2000, 08:16 PM	#18
T-WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 2468 Join Date: Sep 2000 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Jacksonville, FL JMS#15 Vehicle: 05 STi Aspen White 08 OBXT Satin Pearl White	Back to the original post . . . The loss of the double wishbone will only be missed by a select few. 99.99% of the civic buyers never appreciated that their wheels stayed perpindicular to the road under ALL conditions. Ma and Pa newlywed only care that they have a reliable car that won't lose its resale value. Sayonara Si, but you haven't been the same since the CRX. JD

09-27-2000, 08:33 PM	#19
M a t t Guest Member#:	the si can't go. honda just designed that new V-tec motor.

09-27-2000, 09:10 PM	#20
SubyRacer Scooby Specialist Member#: 2439 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: McLean, VA, US of A Vehicle: 2000 2.5RS aspen white	the si is comin back in the 2002 model year and the IS 300 not only looks like but is a direct copy of a 3-series beemer

09-27-2000, 09:38 PM	#21
RidinLow Scooby Guru Member#: 329 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 1999 C5	Matt, what new VTEC motor? The B16 has been around since the Del Slo was here.

09-27-2000, 09:52 PM	#22
EuGeNiLe GTS Scooby Newbie Member#: 2061 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: USA Vehicle: 2099 Daewoo Elite Metallic Burgandy	he might be talking about VTEC-i.. like VVTL-i now it has intelligence.. OoOoo but i dont think its gonna show up till the new teg comes out.. eugene.. 2k celi-gts-vvtl-i-6speed..

09-27-2000, 09:56 PM	#23
RidinLow Scooby Guru Member#: 329 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 1999 C5	What makes it intelligent? I just realized, "VTEC" sure rolls off the tongue a lot better than "VVTL-i!" How do you even pronounce that one!

09-28-2000, 01:03 AM	#24
JGard Pooptastic Member#: 1904 Join Date: Jul 2000 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Salem, MA Vehicle: 2009 WRX Premium 5dr 1991 Mazda Miata	whoa, that's not even close to the many pics i've seen. here I like this better, and they're saying 276hp

09-28-2000, 01:10 AM	#25
Gambit Scooby Specialist Member#: 102 Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: The meeting place	Don't fret y'all civic lovers at heart. The Si or wutever it will be called will come back in 2002 or something. It's taking a breather. And yes the IS300 does resemble the new Civic front end. And yes I saw one up close. I like it. It's not ugly. But the rear is just plain dorky. Gimme a bim bim please!