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Old 10-12-2003, 08:49 PM   #1
PeterJ
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Thumbs up Rev-lab R2 rack (2.0 turns)

Having quick steering is great, but I somewhat feel that its not that quick steering is sooo cool, but that regular steering sucks so bad. But, I guess its all relative to what you are used to.

Before I bought the rack, I was very confused as to which ratio to buy (2.25 or 2.0 turns lock to lock). I heard that the car might be twitchy or unstable at high speed, and had doubts that the stock steering pump would keep up with it. So as a safeguard, I made sure I had my ALK installed before the rack, so the added self-centering effect would stabilize the car on the highway.

So here is my current setup: 2002RS, stock wheels & tires (40psi), stock struts w/ extra bumpstops, wrx springs, Sti tophats, 17mm rear swaybar, ALK, rear strut bar, front camber set to max allowable, rear camber factory set, no toe in/out on all corners, rev-lab R2 rack and their solid clamps.

Now, for my particular setup, I feel that the car is very stable at speed (havent been over 100mph yet) and is actually far more comfortable and easier to drive. At low speeds there is no need to shuffle hands on the steering wheel. At high speeds the car feels like a tank that just wants to go straight. I think this is mostly because of the ALK, but for some reason it feels like it takes more effort to turn the steering wheel than before; almost as if there was a steering dampener on it. In any case, it feels good. There was no real "learning time" to get used to the quick ratio, it just felt natural. Its actually more relaxed.

Sliding around in the rain is far easier to controll because the car wants to turn where your hands point to -no more shuffling. I havent auto crossed or rally crossed with it yet, but I'll post back here when I do. Ice racing season will be the real test.

As for the negatives, the number one bad thing about the rack is the price, but I guess time and increase in popularity will help that. One minor thing, is that at low rpm and quick steering input, I can feel some vibration in the wheel because the pump can barely keep up with the demand for fluid at that pump speed. If it becomes a problem, I will upgrade the pump.

I think that is really great that rev-lab has developed this product, and I hope that more people will realize its benefits. In my opinion, if you are looking for a performance upgrade, but want to stay relaxed while shifting gears, eating lunch and talking on the cell phone, then the 2.25 should be just right; otherwise go for the 2.0.
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Last edited by PeterJ; 10-12-2003 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 10-13-2003, 11:14 AM   #2
wRx14pSi
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is this on par with the evo's? they keep raving about the evo steering ..


how much for this setup?? got a link <-- too lazy
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Old 10-14-2003, 07:31 PM   #3
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Im pretty sure that the EVO's steering is also 2 turns, but the dealer wouldnt let me drive it so I cant really compare. However, I have read that the Evo's turn in is better than the impreza regardless. The cost is $1100, shipping and new fluid is cheap; I went the more expensive route and bought a core for $200 from someone beforehand. I believe its www.rev-lab.com
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Old 10-15-2003, 10:45 AM   #4
wRx14pSi
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Default rack

was the install hard .. the rev lab website is under constuct. can u snap some pics?
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Old 10-15-2003, 04:36 PM   #5
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Default Install...

Well, that depends on your patience and wether you have the right tools.

First, you will need to finish assembling the rack once you get it. That involves installing the tie-rods and rubber boots. Depending what you send in as a core, you may need to re-install the hard lines also. But, you need two new lockwashers (subaruparts.com) that get peened over to lock each tie-rod in place.

I made a small fixture to clamp into a vise so that I could tighten each tie-rod to the 50 ft-lb spec. Basically, you want to hold one side by the flats in a vise so that you can tighten the other to the spec. That way, both will tighten up. I used a thin open end wrench with a hanging type scale to calculate the appropriate torque (you cant use a regular torque wrench there). You can use regular hose clamps to secure the boots, or get the clamps from subaru. The clamps and washers are around 5 bucks.

The factory service manuals state that you have to remove the sub-frame to access the rack. I didn't. I removed the jacking plate, both front swaybar mounts, and disconected one side from the endlink. Then I turned the pinion so that the rack stuck out all the way on the passenger side. With a little fenagaling the rack came out.

After putting the R2 rack in, you need to center it and guess how the splines on the coupling to the steering shaft will allign. Do your best to center the rack and insert the tie rod into the ball joint on each side as evenly as possible. Tighten everything up, put the headers back on, fill the PS fluid tank and start the car. Jump out of the car and run around to the front and keep filling the tank so air wont get sucked in.Then you can move the steering wheel back and forth to keep working the bubbles out.

Now, you can put the car back on the ground and do an allignment. Dont worry about the crooked steering wheel yet, if you connected the tie rods to the ball joint on each side pretty evenly, you have a good start.

Get some long string, a metric ruler, some heavy objects to tie to the string, and two more objects (I used cinder blocks) that are about as high as the side sills on the car. Tie the weights to each end of the string and hang it as parallel to the car as possible. I draped it over a cinder block next to each bumper. Make sure the string is in tension and measure along the side sill to get the sting perfectly parallel to the side sill.

Then, measure from the string to the forward and rearward sides of the wheel rim, reach around the front of the tire and turn the tie rod with a 13mm wrench untill you have the toe the way you want it. Then tighten the tie rod nut against the ball joint with two 19mm wrenches. Do this to both sides.

Now you can drive it. Drive around, turning the wheel back and forth to get the rest of the air bubbles and funny noises out. To center the steering wheel, I marked where it "is" and where it "needs to be" with masking tape and a marker. Now you have to put it back up on the jack stands and get another person to hold the wheel where "it is" as you loosen and remove the coupling between the pinion and the steering shaft. Then tell the person to move the wheel to where "it needs to be" and slip the coupling back on; retighten.

Thats probably not the answer you were looking for, but I thought that its best for everyone to see exactly what it takes. I have done this twice; the first time taking all day, the next taking half a day. If you want to drive to CT I can do it for you no ploblem. Sorry, my digital camera is broken so I cant take pics. Also, you need to get some customs papers (UPS.com or somewhere) to send up your core rack.

Last edited by PeterJ; 10-15-2003 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 10-20-2003, 01:17 PM   #6
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thanks for the info.. it will prob be the spring time when i will do this.
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Old 10-27-2003, 12:54 PM   #7
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Default autocross update

No big news here other than my hands were a lot less busy, allowing me to concentrate more on driving. I still have air bubble problems (I think) because the stock fluid reservoir is lower than the pump; the pump actually being the highest position. My guess is that the bubbles get trapped in the pump and never make it out because of this...
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Old 11-02-2003, 02:32 AM   #8
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Great review. Keep us updated. I've been following Rev-lab reviews for awhile now.
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Old 11-18-2003, 04:04 PM   #9
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Thumbs up update

Its been a while now and I think all of the bubbles are gone from the power steering pump. I feel that I have to fight the wheel sometimes during hard cornering over bumps because of the lower amount of power assist. Its not bad, but it is noticeable when only one hand is on the wheel if you have to make an unexpected gearchange. This rack still gets a thumbs up.
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Old 12-02-2003, 08:21 AM   #10
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so a 2 turn rack would be what ratio?
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Old 12-05-2003, 08:30 PM   #11
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Ive been told that its around 10.5:1. The thing is, there are different ways of measuring it. One way is like this: Lets say your wheels turn 36deg when you turn the wheel 360deg... then 360/36 = 10; so it would be 10:1. But this method involves the length of the steering arm, so the system is 10:1, not the rack. Thats why I never mentioned what ratio it was; I dont really know. But I do know what 2.0 or 2.25 turns means.
Thanks for the question. If someone knows another way of calculating the ratio for just the rack, post it up! One full turn on the pinion gear equals 2.6 in of rack travel...
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Old 01-05-2004, 03:03 AM   #12
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What would you say total turnaround time was? From rack out to rack in and on the road? I can't find a labor time for this on SOA's site. I figure 4 hours start to finish- lemme know. Thanks.

damon
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Old 01-08-2004, 08:41 PM   #13
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I sent my core rack in way before I actually paid for it, but they probably sent the new one as soon as they got my payment. Sometimes they dont have the super-quick ratio in stock, so I would double check if that is the one you want. So if they have it in stock and you paypal it, then probably only a week for shipping. Otherwise, add another week for the money order to get there.
As far as the install, 4 hours if you have the proper tools and have done it recently; it took me probably 8 hours the first time. Now I have stubby wrenches for the PS lines, a thin wrench for the tie rods, a mechanical gage for finding the proper tightening torques. Its a pretty involved instal, so I would say 8 hours.
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Old 02-01-2004, 12:55 AM   #14
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Post ice racing update

Everything is still fine. As mentioned before, the car is far easier to drive, especially on slippery surfaces. The only "change" in driving style on the super slippery ice is that now I had to be careful not to over-turn because the front wheels had most grip at very small angles, so the steering wheel "twitch" to upset the car didnt have to be so severe.
The only things that one might consider as negatives is that when chopping the wheel back and forth from lock to lock (when you get really squirrely), the rack does outrun the pump. Therefore, I feel a knocking in the wheel and it takes more effort to turn at this great speed. Also, when holding the wheel turned up against the stops I felt the vibration from the pump.
Neither of these things are a huge deal, but I am a bit of a perfectionist. I am looking into getting an upgraded pump that can flow more, but at the same time keep the great weighty feel that this rack has. We'll see what I can find. Overall, everything is still great.
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Old 02-19-2004, 09:10 PM   #15
Darryl
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Default another update please?

Peter,
I am strongly considering getting a quick ratio rack. I know of Fourstarmotorsports, and rev-lab. You have the rev-lab, and have had it a while. Can you please post another update on life with it? You mention effort while driving with one hand, shifting. How is that now?
I finally got the wife to go along with this mod (applause please !), so I need to do my homework. I did test drive an EVO8 and found that steering to be nearly intuitive, and certainly haunting.
Thanks!
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Old 02-27-2004, 01:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
You mention effort while driving with one hand, shifting. How is that now?
Everything is still fine. The "one hand & over the bumps" deal I mentioned is really just because this setup provides so much more feedback since there is slightly less power-assist. I dont want to make it seem as though the steering wheel is "hard" to turn now; thats entirely not the case. It just feels "heavier", and thats not a negative thing at all. My driving style/postition hasn't changed much accept that my hands are a lot less busy and I have a better feel for what the car is doing. I can still have my elbow up on the window sill and drive with my left hand without getting tired.
Aside for letting the air bubbles work their way out of the system, this isnt one of those things that have to "break in"; so it feels the same as the day I installed it. I however, have "broken in" and now want something even faster. I think that 1.5 turns would be perfect for me, but I dont see myself spending another grand if this ratio existed.
Anyway, (if it is a concern for you) if you get the 2.25 rack from fourstar, the change in feel will be more subtle since you will have more power assist than I do .

Last edited by PeterJ; 02-27-2004 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 04-12-2004, 04:43 PM   #17
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Old 11-06-2004, 08:15 PM   #18
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anybody have any experience with this rack in the snow?
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Old 11-26-2004, 04:02 PM   #19
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Default 2-turn rack impressions

I have had the pleasure of having the Rev-Lab's 2-turn-LTL rack on my 02 WRX sedan for about 4 months, and now that we've had our first snow of the year, I'd thought that I would chime in a few thoughts:

The install went relatively smoothly and have had little problems regarding any low rpm clunking etc. (initially some minor jolts near locks when turning quickly from lock-to lock which have subsided to a sub-noticeable level).

Steering effort requirements shortly after the install was increased (obviously ), especially around centre, but as others have mentioned, steady like a rock in normal and highway driving and no dartiness (what little twitchiness I felt was more so due to the tramlining of my summer tires). This centre "stiffness" (for lack or better term) has gradually "loosened" and now steering effort requirements has returned to near-factory levels.

Two notable characteristics of the quickened ratio (at least experience from my rack ?) is that "steering recoil" (i.e. how stock steering wheel self-returns to near-centre position after turning) is now suppressed and the "rate of turn" seems to accelerate as one turns the steering wheel from centre to lock (i.e. not the relatively linear factory feel). I found that I needed to more consciously "stop" and "rewind" the wheel (rather than my old lazier way of just letting off the steering wheel after a turn and just allowing the steering wheel to "recoil").

While the above needed some adjusting on my part (no big deal), same have definitely also helped to negate some of my bad habits e.g. of not keeping both hands on the wheel and not always fully completing down-shifting before turning

I have not "tracked" the car with the rack, but based on "open street" driving, lane-changing is a simple two-flick manoeuvre (remember it doesn't recoil as much), and corners and u-turns are now cleared much faster with far less effort or drama (somehow the tires don't squeal as easily now but they are certainly paying the price in terms of noticeable outer tread wear - although the latter is more so due to the addictiveness of the rack in that I now tend to push every corner as fast as I can, with greater ease and just because ...

Now onto rack behaviour in snow driving - PHENOMENAL in my opinion and with my setup . As somewhat expected, intentional inducement of oversteer and AW slides are much, much, easier now. Of course, one should remember that steering effort needed in civil driving (whenever oversteer is not wanted) is a lot less - I guess that it was probably a good idea to have had a few month's practice on dry land first to acclimatize to the quicker ratio characteristics before hitting loose surface driving The most noticeable difference in having the rack in snow driving however is the ease of oversteer correction and AW slide control - razor sharp responses ... bearing in mind that the initial understeering trait of the car remains - i.e. the rack can induce oversteer more quickly, but does not eliminate the initial understeer in my setup.

Technicians from 2 dealerships here have now tried the rack on my car and I believe that they are relatively impressed with same ... please chime in if/when you wish guys Also, I'm sure that Tibor (APRO1 or 416-571-8551) would be pleased to shed more information.

For reference, my susp setup include an SPT suspension set (except re-used larger stock front sway bar), Whiteline rear sway bar set at 24, Whiteline anti-lift, STI front tower bar, stock 16" rims with BFG KD 215-50-16, -1.5 front camber, -0.8 rear camber, zero toes.

Thanks Rev-Lab and Tibor, for a great product (sorry if this part sounds like an echo from other posts ) !!
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Old 12-05-2004, 09:49 PM   #20
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Ah yes! I've had my 11.5:1 rack since May, and it's the best mod I've ever mad to my REX. It's all I'd hoped it would be. Easy to live with. Great feel, especially with poly steering rack bushings.The guys at my local dealership love it too. In fact the car is more well known there than I am! LOL! I have not driven in snow with the rack yet, but I agree with all that synersia said. I'll add that this rack lets the better driver (in you) out. I think it's actually safer than the slower ratio of the stock car because you don't have to correct or dial back your input. That means you don't have to guess how much input is enough, nor wait for the car to respond to your inputs. This is important when you need your car to react quickly to avoid bad traffic situations. It's all good. Not twitchy, as some have alluded to before (also claiming you'd be all over the highway). You simply learn to lessen your input, and you learn that within a very few minutes. Give it half an hour so you can get over the surprise of it all.
happy motoring!
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Old 01-23-2006, 02:47 AM   #21
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Occasionally I have the opportunity to drive pretty fast (upwards of 140 mph), and I was wondering how a 12.5:1 rack would affect steering. You guys claim it doesn't make steering twitchy, but usually when people mention twitchy steering, they're thinking ~90mph. Does anyone have any comments on quicker steering at >110 mph?
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Old 01-23-2006, 09:25 AM   #22
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hi Altaic,
Sorry I can't help you on the high speed driving. I haven't gone over 100mph in a while, and certainly not since I've had my quick rack. But I can speculate based on driving 90mph with an 11.5:1 rack. First, there is no twitchiness. Get that out of your mind. Worrying about twitchiness is a waste of your time. You won't feel the steering wheel kicking about in your hands, won't have to fingt to hold a steady line. Also remember the WRX has variable power steering (effort), so that at higher speeds the steering effort increases. I can say that in all driving regimes the steering is solid and predictable. If anything, you start sawing the wheel, and it will be up to your suspension to keep up with the steering inputs - just as with any car's steering.
But hey, why settle for the 12.5:1 rack? Get the 11.5:1. You won't be overwhelmed in the slightest. Your reflexes are so much faster than even that rack ratio that you won't ever be caught out. Hey, most of my fun comes on twisty bits (not the track) and I have a ball. I'll be 56 next month. I'm assuming you're younger than I am.
BTW, if you're going to drive at such high speeds (>100) take it to the track,even if you live near the autobahn. In my area it's the saddest thing to read about young drivers (who lack experience) wrapping their cars around trees, and killing themselves and others. Not to be preachy. I don't know you, so no offense. OK?
enjoy your rack. it will be the best upgrade you ever m ade to your car.
darryl
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Old 01-23-2006, 12:51 PM   #23
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Would you say you're used to driving cars without any power steering? I'm just curious because it seems like you enjoy the decreased power steering in addition to the quicker rack.
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Old 01-23-2006, 06:24 PM   #24
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Altaic,
Actually I enjoy the increased steering effort, but I could not, and no one else will call it actually heavy. It's really only slightly more effort than stock. Also it's the combo of the firmer steering rack bushing (get this item), and the quick rack that team up to add more feel to the steering experience. You've driven cars that communicate well through the steering wheel. It's like that. Very much a driver's delight.

The decrease in power-assisted steering at higher speeds is how the stock WRX power steering unit works normally. It has nothing to do with the quick rack, per se. You have more boosted assist in steering, for example, when you're parking (making it easier to turn the wheel) versus the increased steering effort you feel at driving speeds. So the "steering effort" is relative, as in less power steering boost. It's not going to make you grow new muscles, nor cause you muscle aches. It's just that good weighty feel you read about, as opposed to that loosey-goosey over-assisted steering in some older American (luxo-boat) cars. But you can steer with the quick rack quite easily with one hand, elbow propped on the window, cruisin about town. I've done it, but I really prefer having two hands on the wheel (after I made myself do it as a habit many, many years ago).
So you needn't worry that you'll wind up with something that's a pain in the @ss to steer. You won't even notice it after a little while. It will just feel normal to ya. And remember, I'm speaking of the 11.5:1 rack. You'll only think the car should have come from the factory this way to start with. I got hooked with improved steering after I test-drove an EVO8, and that thing has a 13:1 steering rack.
Heck, having this rack has not effected my parallel parking one bit! LOL!!! go for it!
Darryl
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:42 PM   #25
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Awesome-- that's just what I needed to hear. Is the 11.5:1 rack 2 turns lock-to-lock?
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