lame ass exhibition of speed ticket.

tartay · 10-13-2003, 05:13 PM

Ok so today I get pulled over. Im in shock when the officer tells me what I've been pulled over for. According to him I did a burnout and sped off...reaching a speed of 30mph in a 25mph zone. He even made the noise of the accused "burnout" with his mouth. Watch out World's Scariest Police Chases you've got a potential crazy HIGH SPEED chase comin your way! AND I endangered the kids that were in the crosswalk. Ok first off, there is NO crosswalk on the street I was on, secondly, the kids weren't near the street they were in the grass field. Third, since when do our cars do rolling burnouts?! I slowed down for a dip in the road...I was doin about 10mph and then I took off yes, and hit about 32-ish MPH. DAMN my car must be crazy powerful If i can do rolling burnouts at 10mph. I told the officer it would be near impossible for me to do a burnout unless I dumped the clutch at redline from a complete stop. Oh yeah, he estimated my speed...no radar..at 30-40mph, well I never even left first gear...didn't even redline in first I was at about 4800-5000 rpm. I didn't argue tho, I just took the ticket, and now I must go to court and fight the damn thing. Oh and i found out he has been on the job less than 6 months. OH AND ONE MORE THING. He had this book titled "How to write a proper traffic citation" or it was a pamphlet but i saw it. Damn rookies.

-Brian

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

soundwave · 10-13-2003, 05:14 PM

ouch, that sucks. rookie cops... bleh

chubb · 10-13-2003, 05:23 PM

take a picture of where u got pulled over, where u were "burning out". Draw some diagrams. Come up with as much hard info as you can & bring it to court.

solid stuff like pictures help.

I dunno if u can do it or not, but my friend did a written contestment of a moving violation and got let off ...

tartay · 10-13-2003, 05:26 PM

anyone want a ride in my car. must be extremely powerful for me to do a rolling burnout by just stepping on the gas at 10mph. TARTAY's car can NEVAR LOSE!!!

Soya · 10-13-2003, 05:27 PM

i'm a lawyer with a passing interest in car law. that ticket sounds incredibly sloppy. you should be able to get out of everything in court. make sure to look up the parts of the CA Vechicle Code that you got written up on. be prepared to rebut specific elements of each portion of the code to which the citation cites. as for the speeding ticket this is a very helpful site-- helpigotaticket.com
good luck.

tartay · 10-13-2003, 05:33 PM

ok so I just looked at the code # and it was 22350..basic speed law violation, different from what he told me i was being written up for. and the violation reads as follows:

22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed
greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather,
visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the
highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of
persons or property.

In the comments part he wrote, school zone, children present, and broke traction.

JewPac42 · 10-13-2003, 05:39 PM

Where was this? I am almost willing to bet Pleasanton. Cops there are dicks. One tried to write me up for front tint there even though my car wasn't registered in CA.

Soya · 10-13-2003, 06:07 PM

22350 is one the easiest statutes to beat out there. if that is the only statute he wrote you up under then you are, at most, on the hook for a speeding ticket. i believe there is a specific school zone statute that he should have used if it he wanted to write you up for something else. even in that case the children have to be on the street (typically the penalties go up during the morning and afternoon hours when kids are being delievered or getting picked up).
that site i gave you deals extensively with 22350 so i would read the stuff carefully. i would also get the traffic survey from the city engineering office to check the normal speed ranges on that street (i believe if you are below the 80th percentile you win).
finally, get some documentation that awd's are very difficult to break traction. that could be a witness, some kind of documentary evidence, etc. if you luck out maybe the judge will be a suby owner

it's also worth noting that dealing with tickets can be a pain. if traffic school is an option and your time is valuable, you might want to think about paying the fine and doing internet traffic school.

JonnySubaru · 10-13-2003, 06:09 PM

Go to: http://www.ticketassassin.com/

I have beat 3 tickets this way.

One 88 in a 55 (Radar) - Won via mail
One 88 in a 65 (Radar)- lost via mail, dismissed on appeal
One "failure to yield" - Won via mail

Note above, the "lost via mail"....... you actually get to request an in-court appearance if you lose by mail!! I did that, and by the time the court appearance came around, the rookie cop had transfered to another county!! ahahahahhahhahah

Soya · 10-13-2003, 06:38 PM

I won a case the same way. I did a trial by declaration, which I lost, then I went to court. The judge said the cop transferred so the ticket is dimissed unless you have any objections. I got to invoke the number one rule of lawyering: when you are ahead shut the hell up.

OneManArmy · 10-13-2003, 07:11 PM

that is a very easy ticket to beat.

You can pretty much prove you didn't "burn out"

Take a picture of the dip and location of the sitation.

And beyond that...it's under 10mph. Most judges will dismiss it right off.

I would write in...if you loose take it to court.

slack20123 · 10-13-2003, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tartay
Oh and i found out he has been on the job less than 6 months. OH AND ONE MORE THING. He had this book titled "How to write a proper traffic citation" or it was a pamphlet but i saw it. Damn rookies.

-Brian

What was his last name, not Draghi(sp?) by any chance? assuming it was in Livermore, I think hes been a cop more than a year though.

ldivinag · 10-13-2003, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soya
I won a case the same way. I did a trial by declaration, which I lost, then I went to court. The judge said the cop transferred so the ticket is dimissed unless you have any objections. I got to invoke the number one rule of lawyering: when you are ahead shut the hell up.

would that be the amendement 5.5 of the bill of rights????

Soya · 10-14-2003, 01:32 PM

while it's not amendment 5.5, "shut the hell up" is decent legal advice in a lot of situations. case in point: this morning the supreme court agreed to hear the pledge of allegiance case. justice scalia, one of the more prominent conservatives on the court, had to recuse himself because the moron was giving speechs on the lower court case earlier this year. this creates a very real possibility that the court will split 4-4, meaning the lower court opinion stands. so remember, it's best to shut the hell up.
i realize this doesn't help you much with your ticket so sorry for the hijack

Concillian · 10-14-2003, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JewPac42
Where was this? I am almost willing to bet Pleasanton. Cops there are dicks. One tried to write me up for front tint there even though my car wasn't registered in CA.

Umm, what's wrong with that?

Remember the dude who got caned in Singapore? It's the responsibility of the individual to know the laws of the state they're in, not the responsibility of the offciers to know the laws of the other 49 states.

They're paid to enforce California laws, and California laws apply to people who are in CA, residents or not.

Maxtastic · 10-14-2003, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Concillian

Umm, what's wrong with that?

Remember the dude who got caned in Singapore? It's the responsibility of the individual to know the laws of the state they're in, not the responsibility of the offciers to know the laws of the other 49 states.

They're paid to enforce California laws, and California laws apply to people who are in CA, residents or not.

you cannot enforce california vehicle codes on vehicles that are not registered in the state of California

JewPac42 · 10-14-2003, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Concillian
Umm, what's wrong with that?

Remember the dude who got caned in Singapore? It's the responsibility of the individual to know the laws of the state they're in, not the responsibility of the offciers to know the laws of the other 49 states.

They're paid to enforce California laws, and California laws apply to people who are in CA, residents or not.

Vechile code cannot be enfored for a vehcile registered in another state.

Soya · 10-14-2003, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JewPac42
Vechile code cannot be enfored for a vehcile registered in another state.

Au contraire. The vehicle code says:
26708. (a) (1) No person shall drive any motor vehicle with any
object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied
upon the windshield or side or rear windows.
Then it goes on to list exceptions. There is no exception for non-California vehicles. Some statutes do exempt non-CA vehicles, like the smog law, but most don't. A fundamental principle of jurisdiction is that if you are in a state you're subject to its laws. That said, I doubt out of state tint violations are high on the CHP's list of targets.

Maxtastic · 10-14-2003, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soya
Au contraire. The vehicle code says:
26708. (a) (1) No person shall drive any motor vehicle with any
object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied
upon the windshield or side or rear windows.
Then it goes on to list exceptions. There is no exception for non-California vehicles. Some statutes do exempt non-CA vehicles, like the smog law, but most don't. A fundamental principle of jurisdiction is that if you are in a state you're subject to its laws. That said, I doubt out of state tint violations are high on the CHP's list of targets.

That must be new on the books. Had a buddy with Oregon plates and would get pulled over. The CHP would write him a ticket, and he would send it in via mail to contest saying the car was not registered in California, and the ticket would be dismissed. I know a few people also with Nevada plates that don’t get tickets for it since their cars are not registered in the state. This was only a few years back, so I guess California is trying to raise money any way they can

I was in court once with a rather smart judge about cars and whatnot, when the person before me was pleading not guilty to a tinted window ticket. He was guilty and the judge made him pay for the ticket and the rest of the dog and pony show. He said that tinted front windows are only legal in the state if you have a provision on your license from an eye doctor. He said also there was a problem at the time due to the fact that DP was selling 911 turbo as an upgraded car at the time and were coming with tinted windows from them ( hence it was taged as coming from the manufacture ) and there were a few of these Porsches in the area and were getting tickets. He was on the bench when one of them came through and the gentleman that had purchased the car was able to show proof that if it came from the manufacture (which DP was entitled to since they did a lot of retrofitting enough to be declared as the manufacture of the car) that its legal in the state. After the judge heard the case, he also noticed that the car was registered in Florida and then said that since the car was not California registered, then the California vehicle code did not matter, but he did remind the gentleman that the car is only legally allowed to be in the state for 7 days before DMV is notified that the car has been moved into the state, This was about 7-8 years ago, so I guess I would not be surprised that California fixed this loophole so they can generate more revenue via citations.

mikkyo · 10-14-2003, 11:51 PM

I would take a picture of the skid marks from your burnout. They have to be some there ya know?
If there aren't then you can turn in a picture of the plain ole street as evidence.
Each point you disprove helps you win.

Like everyone says you can beat the general speed law, unless there are other factors involved, like he noted in yours.
If you are in a school zone, fines are double.
If you were in a school zone, 22350 applies, specifically 22352.
So if you weren't in a school zone, school signs must be posted, there goes another one of his note points.

Children being present is pretty vague, if they were behind the point of your violation, they aren't present.
If they are not adjacent to the street, or are behind a fence, they aren't present.
That is a harder one to fight since it is so generic.

If there was no radar, and you didn't admit to speeding, there is no proof you were speeding, unless he claims to have paced you, but their might not be enough distance to pace, so you might still get lucky.

You could contest by mail with something like, "I was driving at 25mph, slowed for a dip in the road, that turned out to be bigger than I judged, the car bounced, the wheels chirped, I was thinking it was a good thing I didn't trash my bumper on that dip, when the officer pulls up behind me and tells me I was speeding, burning out and endangered those kids.
I said "what kids" and he pointed to a field a 1/4 mile away behind me and on another street.
Then I noticed his book, "How to write a proper traffic citation" and figured he must not have started reading it yet since he just pulled over an innocent guy doing 25 and slowing down for a dip for endangering kids behind him and burning out an AWD car, which isn't really feasible. Enclosed are pictures of the field where the kids were, the road lacking skid marks taken the day after I was stopped, a picture of the AWD sticker on my car, the road where I was stopped without any school zone signs, and me holding up an empty wallet with a sour face, which is what I will look like if I am found guilty and fined double when in reality no violation occurred."

Ok maybe not exactly like that.

You will definitely want to fight this one.

10-13-2003, 05:13 PM	#1
tartay Scooby Newbie Member#: 13926 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Livermore, Ca Vehicle: 2003 WRX Sedan Platinum Silver Metallic	lame ass exhibition of speed ticket. Ok so today I get pulled over. Im in shock when the officer tells me what I've been pulled over for. According to him I did a burnout and sped off...reaching a speed of 30mph in a 25mph zone. He even made the noise of the accused "burnout" with his mouth. Watch out World's Scariest Police Chases you've got a potential crazy HIGH SPEED chase comin your way! AND I endangered the kids that were in the crosswalk. Ok first off, there is NO crosswalk on the street I was on, secondly, the kids weren't near the street they were in the grass field. Third, since when do our cars do rolling burnouts?! I slowed down for a dip in the road...I was doin about 10mph and then I took off yes, and hit about 32-ish MPH. DAMN my car must be crazy powerful If i can do rolling burnouts at 10mph. I told the officer it would be near impossible for me to do a burnout unless I dumped the clutch at redline from a complete stop. Oh yeah, he estimated my speed...no radar..at 30-40mph, well I never even left first gear...didn't even redline in first I was at about 4800-5000 rpm. I didn't argue tho, I just took the ticket, and now I must go to court and fight the damn thing. Oh and i found out he has been on the job less than 6 months. OH AND ONE MORE THING. He had this book titled "How to write a proper traffic citation" or it was a pamphlet but i saw it. Damn rookies. -Brian * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

10-13-2003, 06:09 PM	#9
JonnySubaru * Banned * Member#: 17901 Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bay Area CA	Ummm screw all that.... do this! Go to: http://www.ticketassassin.com/ I have beat 3 tickets this way. One 88 in a 55 (Radar) - Won via mail One 88 in a 65 (Radar)- lost via mail, dismissed on appeal One "failure to yield" - Won via mail Note above, the "lost via mail"....... you actually get to request an in-court appearance if you lose by mail!! I did that, and by the time the court appearance came around, the rookie cop had transfered to another county!! ahahahahhahhahah

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10-13-2003, 05:14 PM	#2
soundwave Scooby Specialist Member#: 30370 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: i-club.com Vehicle: 2011 STi	ouch, that sucks. rookie cops... bleh

10-13-2003, 05:23 PM	#3
chubb Scooby Newbie Member#: 42778 Join Date: Sep 2003 Vehicle: 04 wrx black	take a picture of where u got pulled over, where u were "burning out". Draw some diagrams. Come up with as much hard info as you can & bring it to court. solid stuff like pictures help. I dunno if u can do it or not, but my friend did a written contestment of a moving violation and got let off ...

10-13-2003, 05:26 PM	#4
tartay Scooby Newbie Member#: 13926 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Livermore, Ca Vehicle: 2003 WRX Sedan Platinum Silver Metallic	anyone want a ride in my car. must be extremely powerful for me to do a rolling burnout by just stepping on the gas at 10mph. TARTAY's car can NEVAR LOSE!!!

10-13-2003, 05:27 PM	#5
Soya Scooby Newbie Member#: 32321 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA	i'm a lawyer with a passing interest in car law. that ticket sounds incredibly sloppy. you should be able to get out of everything in court. make sure to look up the parts of the CA Vechicle Code that you got written up on. be prepared to rebut specific elements of each portion of the code to which the citation cites. as for the speeding ticket this is a very helpful site-- helpigotaticket.com good luck.

10-13-2003, 05:33 PM	#6
tartay Scooby Newbie Member#: 13926 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Livermore, Ca Vehicle: 2003 WRX Sedan Platinum Silver Metallic	ok so I just looked at the code # and it was 22350..basic speed law violation, different from what he told me i was being written up for. and the violation reads as follows: 22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property. In the comments part he wrote, school zone, children present, and broke traction.

10-13-2003, 05:39 PM	#7
JewPac42 Scooby Guru Member#: 23260 Join Date: Aug 2002 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: -=3/1 Jew Crew=- Vehicle: Patr ick Willis for Rookie of the year	Where was this? I am almost willing to bet Pleasanton. Cops there are dicks. One tried to write me up for front tint there even though my car wasn't registered in CA.

10-13-2003, 06:07 PM	#8
Soya Scooby Newbie Member#: 32321 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA	22350 is one the easiest statutes to beat out there. if that is the only statute he wrote you up under then you are, at most, on the hook for a speeding ticket. i believe there is a specific school zone statute that he should have used if it he wanted to write you up for something else. even in that case the children have to be on the street (typically the penalties go up during the morning and afternoon hours when kids are being delievered or getting picked up). that site i gave you deals extensively with 22350 so i would read the stuff carefully. i would also get the traffic survey from the city engineering office to check the normal speed ranges on that street (i believe if you are below the 80th percentile you win). finally, get some documentation that awd's are very difficult to break traction. that could be a witness, some kind of documentary evidence, etc. if you luck out maybe the judge will be a suby owner it's also worth noting that dealing with tickets can be a pain. if traffic school is an option and your time is valuable, you might want to think about paying the fine and doing internet traffic school.

10-13-2003, 06:38 PM	#10
Soya Scooby Newbie Member#: 32321 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA	I won a case the same way. I did a trial by declaration, which I lost, then I went to court. The judge said the cop transferred so the ticket is dimissed unless you have any objections. I got to invoke the number one rule of lawyering: when you are ahead shut the hell up.

10-13-2003, 07:11 PM	#11
OneManArmy Scooby Specialist Member#: 36154 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Santa Cruz County Vehicle: 2004 WRX Wagon White	that is a very easy ticket to beat. You can pretty much prove you didn't "burn out" Take a picture of the dip and location of the sitation. And beyond that...it's under 10mph. Most judges will dismiss it right off. I would write in...if you loose take it to court.

10-14-2003, 01:32 PM	#14
Soya Scooby Newbie Member#: 32321 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA	while it's not amendment 5.5, "shut the hell up" is decent legal advice in a lot of situations. case in point: this morning the supreme court agreed to hear the pledge of allegiance case. justice scalia, one of the more prominent conservatives on the court, had to recuse himself because the moron was giving speechs on the lower court case earlier this year. this creates a very real possibility that the court will split 4-4, meaning the lower court opinion stands. so remember, it's best to shut the hell up. i realize this doesn't help you much with your ticket so sorry for the hijack

10-14-2003, 11:51 PM	#20
mikkyo Scooby Specialist Member#: 25399 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Silly Valley, CA Vehicle: 2003 Impreza WRX Black	I would take a picture of the skid marks from your burnout. They have to be some there ya know? If there aren't then you can turn in a picture of the plain ole street as evidence. Each point you disprove helps you win. Like everyone says you can beat the general speed law, unless there are other factors involved, like he noted in yours. If you are in a school zone, fines are double. If you were in a school zone, 22350 applies, specifically 22352. So if you weren't in a school zone, school signs must be posted, there goes another one of his note points. Children being present is pretty vague, if they were behind the point of your violation, they aren't present. If they are not adjacent to the street, or are behind a fence, they aren't present. That is a harder one to fight since it is so generic. If there was no radar, and you didn't admit to speeding, there is no proof you were speeding, unless he claims to have paced you, but their might not be enough distance to pace, so you might still get lucky. You could contest by mail with something like, "I was driving at 25mph, slowed for a dip in the road, that turned out to be bigger than I judged, the car bounced, the wheels chirped, I was thinking it was a good thing I didn't trash my bumper on that dip, when the officer pulls up behind me and tells me I was speeding, burning out and endangered those kids. I said "what kids" and he pointed to a field a 1/4 mile away behind me and on another street. Then I noticed his book, "How to write a proper traffic citation" and figured he must not have started reading it yet since he just pulled over an innocent guy doing 25 and slowing down for a dip for endangering kids behind him and burning out an AWD car, which isn't really feasible. Enclosed are pictures of the field where the kids were, the road lacking skid marks taken the day after I was stopped, a picture of the AWD sticker on my car, the road where I was stopped without any school zone signs, and me holding up an empty wallet with a sour face, which is what I will look like if I am found guilty and fined double when in reality no violation occurred." Ok maybe not exactly like that. You will definitely want to fight this one.