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Old 10-15-2003, 08:25 AM   #1
aliengti
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Default Got some numbers now what should my offer be to the dealer??

Ok gang. This friday I'm going down to delaware to test drive a 01 RS coupe at this Subaru dealer.
http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/v...or=&cardist=27
Car has:
30,647 mi
5spd
It looks like it's in decent condition. Previous owner traded it in for an STI at the dealership I'm going to.



The Dealer list price on the RS is $17,995
Here's the skinny. What do I offer the dealer based on these internet pricing number:

Edmunds Dealer Trade In: 11,070
Edmunds Private Party : 12,723
Edmunds Dealer Retail : 14,248
Kelly Private Party : 14,375
Kelly Dealer Retail : 16,265

I posted this at RS25.com and I thought I might get more good bargaining advice if i posted here as well.
Thanks in advance!
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Last edited by aliengti; 10-17-2003 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 10-15-2003, 08:56 AM   #2
billzebub
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$14,500 and walk away if the dealer wont bargain.
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Old 10-15-2003, 09:09 AM   #3
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$18k? Sounds crazy to me.
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Old 10-15-2003, 09:18 AM   #4
aliengti
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubEd
$18k? Sounds crazy to me.
It certainly does because you know for sure the dealer raped the guy in the trade in. He probably gave the poor guy 4-5K less than what the fair market value was on his trade in. $14,500 sounds pretty reasonable. So after the test drive I say "let's make this happen" and give him my firm offer. Sounds good? You think they'll shoot me down? The RS has been sitting there for 2 months now.

Thanks for the helpful posts keep em coming.
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Old 10-15-2003, 12:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubEd
$18k? Sounds crazy to me.
yeah cant you get a 2004 RS for that amount?
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Old 10-15-2003, 01:12 PM   #6
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You could easily get an 02 WRX for $18k.

Unless you are absolutely in love with the old body style, or can't afford insurance on a newer car don't go past $14k.

I don't know where you are, but a quick AutoTrader search of 100mi in my area produced at least 6 WRXs with comparable mileage and $18k.

Hell, I might even sell you my car for $18k! 2002 Black WRX 17k miles.

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Old 10-15-2003, 02:01 PM   #7
aliengti
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Thanks for the offers guys. But I can't stomach 4 doors. It's just not me. I don't haul anything and I dont give people rides, so I dont have to worry about the back seat. I just wanted an awd 2 door coupe. And the RS is the only car that can fit my bill. Plus the insurance quotes I got on the WRX were ridiculous. A 6 month quote from progressive was $2,300. Even though I have no accident history or tickets, and I have a defensive driver course unde rmy belt. I'm 22.

I prefer the 2 doors over the 4 door sedan, and I want the coupe. But back to the price...I shouldn't go over 14K? cool. This seems to be the consensus so far. I hope the dealer bites cause I dont live close to Newark Delaware and I don't plan on going back there to play offering games with them.

Thanks again, you guys are the best.

edit:
My zip is 19301, and I've been searching auto trader like a hawk. I saw plenty of '02 WRX's for sale around the 18K-20K mark (Nice to see but I bet they were all beaten to hell). But I was looking for 2 door RS's with low miles. I found one near me in collegeville, but the owner had the engine blow up on him. Even though it was replaced under warranty I'm scared to buy a car with a replaced engine.

Last edited by aliengti; 10-15-2003 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 10-16-2003, 07:17 AM   #8
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Just looked it up at NADA which is what is considered the used car value bible. Almost every car dealership uses this as a guide because almost all banks use NADA as well when approving loans. Accourding to NADA, assuming it has a CD player and aluminum alloy wheels. The car is worth NO MORE than 14850. Now, knowing that it was traded in cuts you some slack. Be a hard ass when it comes negotiating on the deal. I'm sure that the dealer is not into it for more than trade(if even close) which is 12450. I would try for for anything between 12500 and 13500 for starters. But do NOT go over 14200! It's just not worth it. If that dealer is going to make you pay full retail for it to own, then it's a sh!!y dealership.




Just to add............ Kelly BB is terrible IMO.. They are always really high on used cars. which is good for you if you are selling your car to an idiot...

Last edited by NateSD; 10-16-2003 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 10-16-2003, 09:37 AM   #9
aliengti
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NateSD THANK YOU!!!
I know the kbb consumers use is totally different thant he ones dealers use. Consumers get the shafted prices. NADA is the official pricing they use! Thank you for posting that information. That is exactly what I was looking for. You made my day. Your saying I should start at 12500 and dont go over 14200. That is excellent news.
NateSD my hat goes off to you
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Old 10-16-2003, 09:53 AM   #10
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I just got an 01 4 door RS for $13600, with 42k miles in really nice shape. The 4 door models seem to always go for more than the 2 door ones, and the 2 doors are much easier to find, so there's no way I'd pay over 14 for that car. Check all the car findeing websites, I think I ended up finding mine thru autobytel, but don't just confine yourself to autotrader...

Good luck
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Old 10-16-2003, 10:11 AM   #11
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I traded my stock 01 BRP sedan with 34k miles in March. I got $12k for it and felt that was about all it was worth. I paid $19k for it NEW. If you're in love with a 2 door and can't find another one, it's not considered rape what the dealer is doing to you....it's consentual.

My advise.....either expand your view and consider WRX's or 4 door RS's or at least be prepared to travel. I don't think it's a bad thing to buy the RS that had a replaced engine. You'd be getting an older car with a newer engine. For the difference in price, you could replace the engine again, down the road.

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Old 10-16-2003, 10:20 AM   #12
NateSD
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aliengti,
Happy to help. Just remember DO NOT go over that 14,200 mark! I would even go that high uless that baby is SUPER clean. Ding-free, scratch-free, etc...... All I can say now is, BARGAN, BARGAN, BARGAN your as$ off! Start real low, and work you way up slowly! Basically, do oposite of what they will try to do to you, they love starting high and coming down. That way you feel like your getting a good deal, but don't them play that game with you. I'm speaking from sales experience here, and I know how relentless some salemen can be. Good Luck! Let us know what it turns out.
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Old 10-16-2003, 10:58 AM   #13
aliengti
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt K
I just got an 01 4 door RS for $13600, with 42k miles in really nice shape. The 4 door models seem to always go for more than the 2 door ones, and the 2 doors are much easier to find, so there's no way I'd pay over 14 for that car. Check all the car findeing websites, I think I ended up finding mine thru autobytel, but don't just confine yourself to autotrader...

Good luck
I searched pretty hard for a 2 door RS. For me it was exactly the opposite to what you desrcibed. I found a lot of 4 doors and only found two coupes near me. The one closest to me had the replaced engine. And I was suggested by most people to stay away, due to the fact that it might have other issues. The other rs coupe is the one in delaware which im going to see tomorrow. Hopefully I can haggle the price down to what natesd suggested. I just hope it's well taken care of. My father said i dont need to find a mechanic in order to inspect the car before hand. Because its at a dealer...

Edit:
Good thing is this RS is a MY01 and it has 30,600 miles. That is pretty good imo. And I will put down half of the car price as the down payment. So say the final price is 13K I'll put down 6.5K down. Now I just write a check to the dealer for the downpayment correct? and the rest I finance.

Last edited by aliengti; 10-16-2003 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 10-16-2003, 01:37 PM   #14
billzebub
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Quote:
Originally posted by aliengti
...Now I just write a check to the dealer for the downpayment correct? and the rest I finance.
No. You need to withdraw the money in 20's and put it in a nice leather briefcase. Open it and place it on the pavement and back away slowly. Bring backup in case the deal goes sour!
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Old 10-16-2003, 01:59 PM   #15
aliengti
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LOL
haha hopefully it wont go down like that. Can you imagine id the dealer was hardcore like that?
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Old 10-17-2003, 04:16 PM   #16
aliengti
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Ok guys well I'm back after visiting the dealer in Delaware...
It was an hour ride down from where I live.
Anyways we got there and looked at the car (my dad and I). The exterior was in very good condition with minimal light scratches here and there. No big deal, I was actually surprised with how well it looked on the outside. We popped the hood and everything looked neat and in order. A little dingy in some place but nothing that couldn’t have been taken care of during an engine bay degreasing.

The interior was a bit dirty with some leaves and dirt scattered in between the seats and floor. There was some crumpled paper in the back. Otherwise the interior looked decent. It had the fake carbon fiber trim pieces on the dash like the MY01 RS have. Let me tell you it looks even better in person. The car just looked so nice. The guy there was pretty nice and told us about the car and the previous owner. He said a woman owned it before she traded it in for her STI.

He asked me if I wanted to take it for a test drive. I said yes and he then asked for my license in order to make a photocopy of it. Within minutes we were off. He took us to a gas station down the road and he then switched seats with me. My dad was in the passenger seat and the guy was in the back. I drove it out of the gas station and onto some back roads he suggested we try.

This car handles like a dream. It may sound too good to be true for some people, but I'm coming from crappy old jeep. So I appreciated how smooth and grippy the ride was. I never felt it was underpowered throughout the entire test drive. It had plenty of power and torque for me. Which made me wonder because I've heard some people call the RS a "dog". To me that most certainly was not the case.

During the ride I instructed my dad to check the heater, AC, and cd player. To my surprise this RS had a speakers underneath the drivers seat. The dealer said it was Subaru option that the previous owner had gotten. It sounded decent, but I shut off the cd player so I could listen to the engine as I drove.

My dad told me that the engine sounded a bit loud, but i then explained to him later that Subaru flat 4's give off that "grunty" sound. I loved how it sounded. Sadly I did not make it home with RS

After the test drive we went in to see what deal we could make. We flat out asked the guy what they were asking. He told us that the he had just been told by his manager early this week to knock the price down so they could move it out. He said the price was originally 17,995 and that now the manager ok'd him to sell it @ 15,900. I told him that I already had figure in my head that I couldn’t go over (which was true). I told him I would take it home for 13,000. He smiled and quickly said that they can't do that. I asked him if he was sure, and he then smirked again and told me he'll take it to his manager. He came back after a minute or two and apologized he couldn't let it go for that low.

I smiled and told him "you have my number, please call me if you change your mind" My dad shook hands with him and we left the dealership. I hope they call me back.
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Old 10-18-2003, 02:58 PM   #17
aliengti
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bump^
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Old 10-18-2003, 06:51 PM   #18
LDB
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Quote:
Originally posted by aliengti
After the test drive we went in to see what deal we could make. We flat out asked the guy what they were asking. He told us that the he had just been told by his manager early this week to knock the price down so they could move it out. He said the price was originally 17,995 and that now the manager ok'd him to sell it @ 15,900. I told him that I already had figure in my head that I couldn’t go over (which was true). I told him I would take it home for 13,000. He smiled and quickly said that they can't do that. I asked him if he was sure, and he then smirked again and told me he'll take it to his manager. He came back after a minute or two and apologized he couldn't let it go for that low.

I smiled and told him "you have my number, please call me if you change your mind" My dad shook hands with him and we left the dealership. I hope they call me back.

If it has been there for over 60 days they should be very anxious to sell it. The key times on used are 30 and 60 days. It's not good if one is on the lot over 30 and it's really bad if it's over 60, at least here where I am. I'm surprised he didn't come back with a counter offer around $15,250 to see where you would go next.

It is possible they seriously overallowed on the car to make another deal happen to boost EOM numbers or something else they wanted to look good. They may be in the car at an inflated level. Regardless of that, if it's been around 60 days it's time to turn that car, even at a mini deal.

You might want to call back in Monday and tell them you'd be able to go $13,500 on it and see what happens. It might get you an indication of where they are willing to go with it.
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Old 10-18-2003, 08:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by aliengti
After the test drive we went in to see what deal we could make. We flat out asked the guy what they were asking. He told us that the he had just been told by his manager early this week to knock the price down so they could move it out. He said the price was originally 17,995 and that now the manager ok'd him to sell it @ 15,900. I told him that I already had figure in my head that I couldn’t go over (which was true). I told him I would take it home for 13,000. He smiled and quickly said that they can't do that. I asked him if he was sure, and he then smirked again and told me he'll take it to his manager. He came back after a minute or two and apologized he couldn't let it go for that low.

I smiled and told him "you have my number, please call me if you change your mind" My dad shook hands with him and we left the dealership. I hope they call me back.
You didn't even try and negotiate? Given the dealers stance, I am not at all surprised they didn't bother to counter - you were lowballing, and they probably don't like that (few people do - most assume the buyer isn't really serious, unless you give them a rediculous deal)

If the car is as rare in your area as you say, and is in excellent condition, and is more or less exactly what you are looking for, why not spend a little more and be done with it? Counter at NADA dealer retail, tell them where you got the number, and see what happens. Keep in mind that NADA, KBB, Edmunds, etc. are average prices, not the absolute value. If the car is indeed a rare find, is all optioned-up, etc., I think it's pretty reasonable to expect to spend more than the average going rate... just a thought.
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Old 10-18-2003, 10:28 PM   #20
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I bought my 2001 RS 2.5 in Anchorage Alaska about a year ago today. The Original Price was 18,995 (Cars in Alaska are generally a lot more expensive). We talked to dealer down to 17,500 and went with it. I'd say go up another thousand, it's such an awesome car.
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Old 10-18-2003, 10:44 PM   #21
aliengti
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I was thinking about calling back and telling them 13.5 But other's have told me not to do that because the dealer will just see my interest and not negotiate. What I'm thinking is to call the dealer back at the end of the month (If they still have the car) and ask them if they want to sell it to me or what. The car is so nice and it is a rare find especially where I live. I just don't want to play into the dealers hand. Thanks for the advice. This was my first car buying experience and I didn't want to get suckered. If someone else want's to pay 15.9 for it, well then they are tad foolish in my book.
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Old 10-19-2003, 04:04 AM   #22
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like others have said, you have to get it to a reasonable number before they will even try to negotiate with you. If you offer $5000 below the asking price and then walk out, they won't take you seriously, and your number will probably get thrown in the garbage. I recently paid $15.5 for a 2002 in perfect condition with 11000km on it, a few extras (spoiler, roof rack, fog light covers,etc...), and it was still under full warranty more or less (2.5 yrs left on the 3 yr, 4.5 on the 5 yr).

I'd go back, show em your serious, and make a better offer on it if you really want it. In an earlier post, you say $14.5 sounds reasonable, so why don't you go back at the end of the month, make the $13 offer again, and work your way up to $14.5 (or $14 even) and see if they will meet you part way? If you like the car that much, and are having a hard time finding one, there's no point trying to get the deal of the century. Now, if there were a lot of them available in your area, you could be a little pickier.

ps. my girlfriend has started calling my 02 "cute"
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Old 10-19-2003, 01:02 PM   #23
aliengti
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Thanks for the advice quest. If they still have it at the end of the month that is exactly what I will do. There's no other course really. I like the car. I want the car. And 14K is reasonable enough.
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Old 10-20-2003, 05:15 PM   #24
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Yep, wait 'til the end of the month. Definitely DO NOT call them within the next week -- that just makes them think that you want to buy it more than they want to sell it. If you can wait until the end of the month, you'll be showing that you have some interest in the car (which is obviously not flying off the lot, so they should deal seriously with you), but are strong enough to walk away if you think it's unreasonable.
When I was buying mine, I had to walk after about 90 minutes of detailed numbers/negotiation when their bottom line was about $500 more than I was willing to spend. The first 2-3 days after walking were really hard! Then, I negotiated a cheaper deal at the internet manager of another dealer AND the salesman at dealer #1 called me to try to get me to come back in. Double victory!
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Old 10-20-2003, 05:40 PM   #25
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hell, you like the car a lot, call him back and offer $14,500. Try to get a good down payment on it ($2k) and you should be looking at a $275 payment easily. If you can't put anything down, probably $330 a month....this is if everyone involved has pretty good credit
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