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Old 09-27-2000, 04:17 AM   #1
Darryl
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Question Shiv's business

I've been reading Sport Compact Car for three years, now. But it's possible I've missed the article in the magazine where Shiv speaks of his ownership of the TEC-II system. Can someone direct me to it? Why do I want to refer to it? Because I was in an arguement with someone who claims it's unfair of Shiv to promote his product in the magazine as if he has no affilliation with it, giving the impression that he bought it just like anyone else can. I've read the latest Impreza update, and I haven't seen it in there either.
tia,
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Old 09-27-2000, 04:42 AM   #2
prezios
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Cool

It is in the Nov 2000 issue. I just got mine yesterday. I have not read the artical yet but you know I will.
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Old 09-27-2000, 05:50 AM   #3
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Why is it unfair for Shiv to promote the TEC-II? As long as the things he says are truthful, which I am sure Shiv has been(and I'm sure the editors would not risk the reputation of their magazine by letting Shiv print misleading info), I don't care if he makes it in his basement or bought it from Summit. If it does what he says it does, I don't see the harm in not stating who the owner/developer of the system is. Do they mention who owns or developed any other parts that they talk about in SCC? I didn't think so. Just my four cents worth.
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Old 09-27-2000, 05:57 AM   #4
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I always assumed that what Shiv was selling was the tuning of the Tec-II. Electromotiv (?) is the manufacturer of the Tec-II... so I always thought that Shiv was reselling the computer, along with all the correct accessories for your subie as well as selling his knowledge of installation and tuning. As far as I know.. as long as you foot the LD call bill, all the tuning you need is included.
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Old 09-27-2000, 05:58 AM   #5
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It is kind of a mixed issue, in some ways it seems like he is pretending to be in a process of discovery yet he has a turnkey package for sale so of course you wonder about the ethics. My take on it is that his claims are on a solid basis and he doesn't sneak around using different identities so it isn't like he is trying to hide anything. I would much prefer he continue doing things the way he is because he is up front about things.
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Old 09-27-2000, 06:19 AM   #6
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Pipercub, keep in mind they pre-write the articles fairly far in advance. So, he was in the process of discovery when he wrote the article.
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Old 09-27-2000, 06:38 AM   #7
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I've been reading them for a while and it seems to me that this has been a long process and that he's been trying to find a solution for some time, even back when he was a Miata guy.

He found something that does what all the other stuff does, found a way to use it with the existing ECU and got high-quality components together. He then realized that no one else is even close and decided that selling it himself was the only way to do it.

Props to him for putting it all together and even better for understanding the whole thing!
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Old 09-27-2000, 06:41 AM   #8
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It would seem only natural to me that if people read an article on how to add this cool whiz-bangie thingie to their cars, some may not feel up to the task themselves and so would of course ask the question "Can I buy it from you in a kit form?". Circuit Cellar has that a lot. They write about various projects, then at the end of the article they'll have contacts for empty or populated circuit boards, parts kits, and so on. There is a fine line between writing an "infomercial" type article about a product you're promoting as opposed to selling kits for a product you developed while writing an article, but if it's on-topic, informative and generally useful then I don't think there's anything wrong with it. If he were selling those stupid little rotating schiwaulie dealies for washing your car, or whatever they're called, then that would be a different story...

There's my $0.028 CDN
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Old 09-27-2000, 10:08 AM   #9
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It seems to me that he is just offering a kit form of what he discusses in the article. In the article he tells you exactly how to install it, what parts you need and what to do. People could just as easily go out and put the kit together themselves.

Personally, I just picked up the phone and asked him to send me the whole damned package. That way I get to ask him a million questions after I install it.

I have no problem with what he is doing and am extremely happy he chose to do it.
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Old 09-27-2000, 10:15 AM   #10
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63Alpine, I agree with you almost completely. I would rather drive to Shiv's place and let HIM install it. There is nothing wrong with what Shiv is doing. He found the best product for what he wanted to do, and he wrote about it. It doesn't matter that he might own a company that produces a kit that has a TEC-II in it that Shiv buys from Electromotive. It's just that it is the best system for the car, so far.

[This message has been edited by why? (edited September 27, 2000).]
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Old 09-27-2000, 11:57 AM   #11
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To me, this sort of depends on how you look at it. The product itself shouldn't be in question, the real issue is "How did he come up with it?"

On one hand, he works for a magazine. He is getting paid to do research and write articles on various products and processes for a certain car. Since he is getting paid to do this, one could argue that the magazine truly owns all rights to the TEC-II kits, since they were developed on their time. But then, when is it their time and when is it Shiv's time, since he also modifies cars as a hobby? I can definitely see the potential for conflict of interest, but it really depends on what "time" Shiv used to develop his product.

It really depends on what the magazine itself thinks happened. As of now, it doesn't seem like they have any problem with it. If the magazine doesn't have a problem, then I don't either.

I must admit, it must be nice to write an article and then promote your own product within it. Talk about a nice ad!!

Dave
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Old 09-27-2000, 01:09 PM   #12
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Thumbs down

Actually people like to get in other peoples' business..stupid issue
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Old 09-27-2000, 04:24 PM   #13
Darryl
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Cool

well, like those little orfices we all have, there seems to be a difference of opinion. My friend can go bite the big one. Buying Shiv's kit is my plan-B if the new REX is beyond my means.
By the way, for those of you who have yet to read the November SCC article, you'll like it a lot! Good tech stuff.
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Old 09-27-2000, 06:04 PM   #14
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Hmm....a post about shiv and he hasn't even responded to it...he's probably laughing that there are almost 20 replies in the thread and none of them are his :}. I'm just foolin' guys. At first I thought it was unfair for him to promote his own products in his articles. Having been a journalist before for 2 years for Sentinel, Inc, I know what unbiased reporting is. But if you just can't afford to buy ALL these products to test ALL of them for ALL of your readers, then you just have to write about something...and make it look good to boot!
I say fuss all you want, but it's still his pen and paycheck.

Gary
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Old 09-27-2000, 07:16 PM   #15
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I'm an idiot..exactly what is all this?
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Old 09-28-2000, 12:05 AM   #16
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Shiv doesn't work for SCC. He's a contributing author (says so in the mag). That means he's a free-lancer who can write anything they'll buy.

If you're concerned about this, ask him. He's pretty up front about it.

-Red
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Old 09-28-2000, 12:19 AM   #17
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Since he is a free-lance writer, then that should settle it. I just assumed, probably like most other people, that he was an employee of the magazine, based on the number of articles he's done. The little details always get me. Sorry.

Based on the above, I guess there's no grounds for conflict of interest, since his time is his time. Still, that sort of takes away the unbiased opinion about products that many people look to articles for.

Being able to promote your own product within an article sure beats any ad you could possibly buy, and you don't have to pay for it, but get paid for it. Nice. I need a job like that.

Dave
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Old 09-28-2000, 07:00 AM   #18
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Talking

Hey Fido,

I'm an idiot too. Good to have you aboard the club.

Check out www.vishnuperformance.com and look on www.sportcompactcarweb.com for the project impreza (or pick up last month's SCC magazine). Shiv (who's business is Vishnu Performance) has been writing about an Impreza project car for several months now. In the last issue, he installed a kit he makes and sells in the car.

My only beef is that he didn't come right out and say it was his product. Of course, this was just an installation article. Maybe when he does the testing and reports on that (so we can see how good the product is) he will tell the world what he's done to make it available. In the interest of full disclosure. Not really avoiding any inpropriety. Just avoiding the appearance of inpropriety.

-Red
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Old 09-28-2000, 08:57 AM   #19
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Us idiots gotta band together ;-)
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Old 09-28-2000, 08:57 AM   #20
ggiles@clarionnet.com
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Just to make sure everyone is clear on this.

1. Magazine articles get written sometimes months before it gets printed.
2. Shiv's article is probally the first time that he put the Tec II on the car. From the install he then learned what it takes to put it on an Impreza.
3. Taking that knowledge and buying all components necessary, that he used to complete the job, and then offered it pretty much as a nice 'bolt-on' type solution for eveyone.
4. The posting of the Shiv Tec II kit on the board was earlier than the article, but around the time that he completed the first install. Which means he learned by doing.

From all this I would say that the difference in time between I-club and magazine printing has confused many. This confusion is generally that he had the kit first and then wrote about it. I don't think that's the case. I just think he used his experience from it and saw value for others and is not providing a product and a service.

We should all be happy that someone is out there breaking stuff to find out what works and doesn't. Better him and the mag, than me....although my engine's blown...so go figure.

As far as looking at the ethics of it all, it's none of my business, but I don't see anything wrong with it, even if he was a contract or full-time employee of Primedia.

George
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Old 09-28-2000, 10:02 AM   #21
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freelance or not, it really makes no difference. You guys must realize that the articles/tech features are all multidimensional, in that they provide information to the reader, and also promote the companies behind the products. Shiv's not doing it any differently. At least teh artciles are full of useful technical inforamtion, rathr than the quick synopisis so many magazines resort to.
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Old 09-28-2000, 10:50 AM   #22
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shiv does sell the tecII, no he didnt engineer it, he tunes it. if he has found this to be the best application then why not write about it in the mag to promote the product to others that are not on the board.

if you look at the latest scc, not only does it have the tecII install on the project impreza it has many articles about ecus,, including mentions of the tecII and other systems for hondas and other cars.
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Old 09-28-2000, 11:24 PM   #23
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George hit the nail on the head.

shiv
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Old 09-29-2000, 12:46 AM   #24
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My 2 cents!!

Let's see, Shiv's editorial deadline is likely months before we will actually see it in print. SO,... all of us that have been really following the Impreza tuning on the i-club are likely 2 months ahead of what we see on the pages of SCC (see temporary Tec-II forum).

Instead, he see's an opportunity for an excellent product (i.e. Electomotive's TEC-II product...i.e. NOT HIS) that he has experience with and he suggests ways that people can extract HUGE amounts of power from it.

So now we are making statements of claim that Shiv is being way too biased on a system that he doesn't own (but is familiar with)? So we crtisize him for showing us the way to a reliable 300+ HP????

Correct me if I'm wrong here??? This is Communist Russia...right???


Give me a freakin' break.....the rest of you can pi$$ off.

I for one am HUGELY appreciative of Shiv showing us the way to a reliable 300+hp.

[This message has been edited by markus (edited September 29, 2000).]
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Old 09-29-2000, 04:31 AM   #25
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Preach on, brother Markus!!!

We should all be thanking Shiv for putting all the stuff someone would need to buy or have fabricated together. This makes it easy to make sure that you have everything that you will need, and that they are all the correct parts. He took out all the legwork and R&D for the average Joe.

I for one say a big THANK YOU SHIV!!!!!!
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