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Old 10-19-2003, 12:07 PM   #1
Benjamin Tang
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Default r180 question for 6mt swap

i have other threads going related to this, but wanted to keep things separate.

as i am trying to understand the wrx cannot run a r180 rear diff from the sti because of the 180 rear driveshafts will not fit into wrx hubs. swapping r160 parts into the wrx diff corrects for final drive of r180, but it's ability to hold high power launches is in doubt.

back in my honda days long time ago, i used to see kids dropping h22a prelude vtec motors into civics. one of the big problems was driveshafts... preludes had longer shafts with different 5 bolt hubs, whereas civics were shorter with 4 bolt hubs. what they used to do (besides shortening the shafts) was graft the out cv joint from the civic to the prelude driveshaft....

is such a thing possible for a sti driveshaft? graft a wrx out cv joint assy to it, but keep the inner cv joint so as to be able to retain the sti r180 diff?


or am i totally out to lunch here?
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Old 10-19-2003, 05:36 PM   #2
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I think the strength would suffer due to the smaller CV joint on the US WRX hubs.

Plus if you were looking to go with the 2 pot rear brakes you might as well do the hubs also.

-Dylan
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Old 10-19-2003, 06:50 PM   #3
Benjamin Tang
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the 2 pot rears, both sti and brembo, are so expensive to upkeep... i am still in shock at the prices for brake pads and rear vented rotors (rallispec.com)
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Old 10-21-2003, 03:05 AM   #4
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You can buy brake pads and rotors from dealers now. Rallispec has some insane prices sometimes. Also the pad is a common size so there are quite a few aftermarket options also.
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Old 10-21-2003, 10:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: r180 question for 6mt swap

Quote:
Originally posted by Benjamin Tang
as i am trying to understand the wrx cannot run a r180 rear diff from the sti because of the 180 rear driveshafts will not fit into wrx hubs. swapping r160 parts into the wrx diff corrects for final drive of r180, but it's ability to hold high power launches is in doubt.
Bemjamin:

To use the R180 rear diff from STI you would need the driveshaft+hubs+axles+brakes, etc (Basically complete rear end)

By using the 3:90 ring and pinion in the R160, you just get the correct ratio, but will not handle power launches as the R180 will, since it will break the satellites inside of it.
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Old 10-27-2003, 11:03 PM   #6
Benjamin Tang
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will this lsd solve all my breakage problems? http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=441845
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Old 10-27-2003, 11:41 PM   #7
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that's a front diff not a rear diff. sorry.
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Old 10-28-2003, 01:24 AM   #8
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so it's a typo? it says "STI suretrac rear LSD for R160 rear diff."
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Old 10-28-2003, 06:12 AM   #9
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Benjamin:

SureTrack = For Front Diff
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Old 10-28-2003, 11:53 AM   #10
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Ben-

He called it a Sure-trac which is the term for the front LSD.

It is infact a rear LSD for the R160.

This would take care of the diff issue bu not the axle strength issue.

-Dylan
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Old 10-28-2003, 11:56 AM   #11
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thanks for your help dylan... if this isn't an suretrac, then what is it? it's not the same type as what we have in our wrx's right now?

the shop i found who said they would do it quoted me a labor charge almost the same as the selling price

dylan... are u going to buy that sti wagon? the seller is no longer responding to my attempts to contact him so i'm guessing it's sold, but i don't know to whom
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Old 10-28-2003, 01:00 PM   #12
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SureTrac is a brand name. There are SureTrac differentials available for the front and the back.

The front differential isn't specific to Subaru, any LSD that will fit in the front can be used in the front. It doesn't have to be a "front" LSD.
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Old 10-28-2003, 01:44 PM   #13
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ascott:

I know that already. He doesn't. Why confuse him even more, when all he wants is a simple answer to his question, so he at least understands the difference.? Don't make it any harder on him.

Let him understand the basics...
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Old 10-28-2003, 01:53 PM   #14
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no worries... my poor little brain blew up in a shower of confetti long time ago
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Old 10-28-2003, 02:04 PM   #15
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Now, any R160 3.90 diff will work, right? Be it LSD or open?

I'm not trying confuse. I'm trying to understand myself.

A R180/R200 would require the bigger axles and other hardware that I'm not sure of or is the crack affecting my reasoning?
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Old 10-28-2003, 02:09 PM   #16
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yes. the r180 requires sti driveshafts(halfshafts?), which means they won't fit wrx rear hubs, etc. hence people trying to convert the r160 by changing the ring and pinion to get the correct fd. but people are killing the converted r160's under hi-torque loads, so i was thinking this lsd would be the solution, but labor to swap that lsd in is huge $$$ (at least locally for me )....
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Old 10-28-2003, 02:31 PM   #17
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If you are not going to produce lots of hp/tq and will not launch hard. I think it is ok (R160) otherwise, go easy on it, until you can swap for a R180 and required hardware.
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Old 10-28-2003, 02:32 PM   #18
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the reason why i'm going thru all this grief is because i am going to be producing lots of hp/torque
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Old 10-28-2003, 02:55 PM   #19
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Honestly i say hold off on it. You probably will have to make lots of power to blow it, which you say your going to do. But why spend the money now on the lsd when you don't even have your motor built up yet. Just change the ratio, build your motor. Even when it's built you'll have teething problems and it will probably be longer than you think and hope that you get enough power and are comfortable enough with the car to blow the rear diff. Besides by then hopefully they will be cheaper, and maybe you'll find a better deal. Just my opinion, take it for what you will, and good luck.
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Old 10-28-2003, 02:58 PM   #20
Benjamin Tang
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the motor is already there. my 5mt is a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. i don't want to go sti 6mt with a r160 that won't hold together or else i'm going to be stuck with a 2wd wrx
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Old 10-28-2003, 02:58 PM   #21
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edited after talking to Kopf.

-Dylan

Last edited by downshift1; 10-28-2003 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 10-28-2003, 03:01 PM   #22
Benjamin Tang
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all i wanted was all the rear end stuff we had discussed to make my wagon work with that 6mt... diff, driveshafts(halfshafts?), hubs, carriers... possibly all the brake hardware but i'm not sure i can afford that.

did the tranny go up in flames too?
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Old 10-28-2003, 04:37 PM   #23
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Looks like Kopf is still in on the wagon all though all the drivetrain is spoken for.

-Dylan
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Old 10-28-2003, 04:40 PM   #24
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including the hubs and knuckles?

sigh... denied again.
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Old 10-28-2003, 05:17 PM   #25
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Benj - I am building a very nice project myself.

1 - The 6-speed tranny is nothing to be worried, even with a 3:90 R160 with corrected ratio. The problems are the satellites inside the R160. That you can't change! Lots of hp/tq + hard launches WILL break the satellites.

2 - If you plan om making more than 300 - 350hp you need another clutch. Depending on how much hp/tq you plan to get, I would get the 6-speed plus required hardware.

3 - Even if you do get the R180 and required hardware, you will still have some weaks points... You can break your output shaft.

4 - "If you are going to do it, do it right from the start"
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