I just got word that GM has "sucked up" some Sube engines

[ARG]

I just found out from the mysterious "mega" tuner (just wait till the Maine rally, Ok?)that as soon as GM finished the 20% buy-in with FHI, they (GM) promptly packed up every model engine Sube has in current production and took notes on Subaru engineering. In other words, GM went on a "scavenger hunt" in Japan, much to the dismay of FHI. But what can they do? GM wants their 20% of something, might as well be Subaru engineering. I swear, if GM comes out with an AWD turbo Chevy Cavalier, I'm going to puke. Or better yet, how about an AWD Cadillac DeVille? Oh, yes, that should make your pecker stand up.
Or worse yet, how about a new legacy with a Quad-4?
An Impreza with a Buick 2.8 V6???

Oh please, someone help us!!!

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[tom@kartboy]

either way you look at it we'll still have crappy interiors in the cars

In all honesty though.. I wouldn't be the least surprized if then eventually release an AWD Corvette within the next 5 years. Chevy has tried a few times in the distant past to make an AWD Corvette, but never made it to production just concept cars.

Tell you what... AWD Corvette, oh hell yeah... gonna be in my garage right next to my Subie!

-Nick

P.S. not turning to the darkside, just figure it Chevy can realize the importance of real AWD technology and mate it to a serious N/A powertrain, I'm in.

[HomerJay]

I can see it now. The new Geo Metro AWD, with a 1.2L boxer engine pumping out a whopping 89hp and 79lb-ft of torque. I think I'm going down to my local GM dealer and put myself on the waiting list with the rest of you guys. You'll be able to smoke those Honduh's now

[This message has been edited by HomerJay (edited June 19, 2000).]

[tom@kartboy]

oh i forgot we'll be getting crappy goodyear tyres instead of the crappy b-stones

[ColinL]

GM has relatively little 4V experience, SOHC or DOHC. This little tidbit ARG has presented doesn't mean jack crap to me, it's perfectly logical.

What isn't logical is downgrading Subaru's vehicles to GM's current low-tech powertrains. Rather I see it going the other way around. How many GM offerings still are 2V and iron block and heads?

AWD corvette-- yeah right. Why? A four-valve per cylinder corvette would be a good start, and not one engineered by Lotus.

[This message has been edited by ColinL (edited June 19, 2000).]

[rsquire]

The new Geo Metro AWD, with a 1.2L boxer engine pumping out a whopping 89hp and 79lb-ft of torque

And here's what they do with them "down under" where it's called the Suzuki Swift..
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~crawfy/itsmad.html

Oh and performance.... What about

180kW / 540Nm at the wheels
230kW at the engine


that's 241 hp @ the wheels
308 @ the engine
and 398 ft lb of torque

Oh yeah and it's AWD...

Gotta love those Aussies

I've seen this car on the street in Sydney many, many times and it's damn quick

Richard

[BG5]

GM has already done an AWD Cavalier in Europe (Vauxhall Zafira [?]) but it makes sense for them to leach off a premiere AWD car brand to keep up with the Jones'...

FHI needs to stop being so damn nice to GM and start pushing for help in getting the hot stuff here cheap and plentiful. I can't see American's seriously buying AWD *cars* en masse from GM any time in the near future (not even a 'vette) so why not let Subaru use their advantage in the market and play to those strengths?

[Black TS]

I just got a question? when did this GM buy FHI thing happened? i didn't even know that GM bought FHI or bought part of it, whichever they did.

[Ian Cook]

We have had so called AWD on Vauxhall's (our branch of GM) they are front wheel drive really with trick centre diffs, that allow drive to all 4 wheels if needed, then theres the Frontera (nasty build quality etc)

I used to own a Cavalier (not the same as the ones you guys have) that was front wheel drive and came standard with 155BHP 2 litre 16valve, alloy (Cosworth Engineered) cylinder head, they also did a turbo version of it. I will try to find some piccies

[Jay_UK]

Howdy,

Indeed Vauxhall (Opel/GM) did do a turbo cavalier, I owned one. It is nothing like your cavaliers.

This was 4wd (intelligent), 6 speed, 2.0l Turbo.

I modded mine upto 300bhp.. was an awesome car.... not very nimble, but great for cruising

Bob Rawle also owned a modded Cav Turbo too...Spooky.. for saying how rare they were..

J.

[Gambit]

Uh... what is FHI/Subaru is getting in return? Or are they getting rape by this "marriage"? get up! get up you Japanese! Do something! Don't let US walk all over you!!! Sned your ninjas over or something!!! AARRGHHH!!!

[iceinject]

send your ninja's....hahahah
lol
funniest thing i've heard all day

[RotrPwr]

i think whenever GM smells a better car manufacturer/supplier they just try to buy them up. I think its not very good for the automobile industry at all. Very counterproductive. I know i'm going to get flamed for this but i havent liked anything that has rolled off the GM line. And apparently i'm not alone. Many well known car magazines feel the same way i do. Just check out their reviews of cars(example) like the Cavalier, Sunfire, Grand Am, Suburban, Monte Carlo(puke) etc. They have totally mundane exteriors, bland motors at best that don't do anything particulary well, and nasty,plastic-ish interiors that are just as bad as the outside of the car. And in my opinion anyone who buys GM cars because they actually "think they look nice and are a decent car" is just a patriot.

[Rally Man]

I feel the same way as RotrPwr about GM. They SUCK! Cavalier/Sunfire have gotten the worst on side impact crashes, I believe you'll get killed if you get hit like that and the Monte Carlo HA! I forgot which magazine, I think Motor Trend, were just making fun of how the car looks and feel saying that basically it was a piece of junk. Just check out www.carreview.com and see what other people say about GM cars. Sorry about the rant.

[ColinL]

You two need to test drive a C5 corvette and then shut up. The interior build quality still isn't the best, but not much other fault can be found with that car.

[MstrDC]

Ok, maybe I'm an idiot or what. But how come the US Government can break down Microsoft and not GM?!? GM, owns alomst every car manufacturer out there or atleast a part of it, there cornering the automotive market. Something has to be done! The US can get involved in what Microsoft does but not in GM.

Like I said maybe I'm just being dumb, but I sure as hell don't get it. SOrry for my rambling on...I will go now.

[boxerman]

I got flamed to death on the Porsche board by calling them euro-snobs, so now I will stick my neck out and say what a bunch of Japo-snobs. I'll trade in my scooby for a c-5 any day of the week. On a dollar for dollar basis the Corvette holds its own with any of the premier sports cars out there. Although we don't like SUV's, my friend has a Tahoe and it is really well built and the Camaro offers about the best performance bang for your buck today. Lastly GM has backed LeMans efforts in 2 classes, that is more than Porsche has this year. I agree that they have to clean house in the styling department, but I don't think ugly techno monstrosities like the Skyline are that beautiful either. (I like e-type Jags)Stop being so closed minded.
Tim

[Rally Man]

You pay what you get. Simple. A C5 Corvett cost how much? A Cavalier/Sunfire cost how much? If you compare a Cavalier with a Impreza or Honda, Toyota, Nissan guess whos going to be better inside and out? Camero has a nice engine but as far as interior or exterior to me they look ugly but that's just me. Also I was only talking about |4 or V6 and not V8's that's too much engine for me, I like small nimble cars.

[ravent]

Maybe you have seen the "new" Malibu...coming up from behind I saw what I thought was a Sube, but as I got closer I realized it was the malibu. Maybe w/AWD and...no, I'll take the current Impreza, they Rock.

[Wrx31]

Copy cats.

Can't they come up with their own stuff?

[NeedaScooby]

I know there are a bunch of evo readers on this board. Here in the states we are about a month or so behind the UK in reciving this AWESOME mag. I bring this up because in issue #020 they mention something about GM using Subaru AWD technology not in their cars first but instead using them in Saab's.
Not a bad thought huh--I could deal with the Viggen w/ all wheel drive to tame that 258lbs of torque that is being fed through its front wheels at the moment.
Great speed in a staight line, if it ever went in one

[This message has been edited by NeedaScooby (edited June 20, 2000).]

[Hucker]

What the hell are you guys talking about? You think GM is going to bastardize Subie's AWD system? How long have GM been making 4WD systems? Alot longer than Subaru has, now given not in the consumer car market but sheesh, give GM a break. Why do you think FHI agread to this 20% buyout?? CASH!!!! Think about the money GM can put into R&D on the Subaru side. I doubt they are going to come out with a "AWD" Cavalier, there's no reason. Subaru will be sitting there with their hands open, and GM will just start the money stream. I think its going to work out great for both sides. As far as a AWD Cadillac, that car is far more advanced than any Subie ever will be, give GM a break. If you are going to judge them, atleast see what comes of this merger then make your comments..

[Mizen]

By that time it might be too late... we'll see though, not like many of us can do anything about it.
Do you seriously think GM makes fine quality auto's... the cadillac cost's HOW MUCH!?! Aside from that are you impressed with the cavalier, camaro, blazer etc... take your pick...
GM - ugh... I can get GM cars at discount and I still bought a Subaru.

[Rally Man]

As far as a AWD Cadillac, that car is far more advanced than any Subie ever will be, give GM a break.

As I've said before you get what you pay for. What do Cadillac STS and Cavalier have in common? Nothing as far as I know. It’s like saying why my Focus doesn’t come with Lincoln options. GM still sucks to me but that may change since, I think, they made a deal with Honda, Honda supply’s there engines for there small car segment and GM helps them with…I have no clue.