Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday August 29, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-24-2003, 01:06 PM   #1
IA Performance
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 25194
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Boulder, CO
Vehicle:
2008 Forester XT 5mt
Dark Gray

Default ARP head stud final word in here

Just got off the phone with ARP direct. The application is for an aluminum block, so all of us EJ 2X users.

Maximum toque when using the supplied lube is 65ft lb final torque rating. Go 25-45-65. Hand tighten the rods in the block DO NOT TIGHTEN THE STUDS PAST THIS, STRIPPING MAY/WILL OCCUR

Maximum toque when using 30 weight oil is 80ft lb.

Please take note to this as the company that I purchased these from (crawford performance) told me to torque to 85ft lb. The ARP rep did not agree with this at all. 'Stripped heads for sure' is what they said word for word. I'm not sure who to listen to.

Also, I was told to do the factory bolt sequence but not suppose to back out 180 degrees, etc that the service manual shows.

I hope this information helps the masses. More to come once I put mine on.

Oh, and they wanted me to warm up teh car and then let it cool 100% off then retorque the studs. To bad that would require full engine removal.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by East Coast Scooby; 10-24-2003 at 02:24 PM.
IA Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 01:15 PM   #2
2000vfr800
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15599
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Livonia, MI
Default

Quote:
Oh, and they wanted me to warm up teh car and then let it cool 100% off then retorque the studs. To bad that would require full engine removal and I won't do that.
Yea...because what do they know...
2000vfr800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 01:20 PM   #3
IA Performance
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 25194
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Boulder, CO
Vehicle:
2008 Forester XT 5mt
Dark Gray

Default

well, unless you want to help me do the added 20 hours of work to do so them feel free you have to pull the motor, pull the cams, and then stuff it all back.

In then end I may just use the stock studs since I hate being a guinea pig of sorts.
IA Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 01:22 PM   #4
mlambert
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13831
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: 99 problems but a bitch aint 1
Default

Maybe thats why Quirt said 85. How many motors has he built? More than cobb would be my guess.
mlambert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 01:24 PM   #5
LargeOrangeFont
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28475
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: So Cal
Vehicle:
86 RX-7, 07 Yaris,
2010 CTS-V

Default

Count me in for the install, deinstall, install 60 hour marathon meet.
LargeOrangeFont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 01:38 PM   #6
2000vfr800
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15599
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Livonia, MI
Default

Just giving you a hard time...

There are multiple engines being built right now at Payn using ARP head studs so you aren't going to be the guinnea pig...
2000vfr800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 01:43 PM   #7
IA Performance
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 25194
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Boulder, CO
Vehicle:
2008 Forester XT 5mt
Dark Gray

Default

Shoot, times when I wish Sponaugle would reply to PMs and emails

The last thign I want to do is pull this girl back out of the car due to a leaking head gasket.
IA Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 01:55 PM   #8
Crawford Performance
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 42075
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Oceanside
Default

I am sorry that ARP dose not agree with my torque specks.
I designed the studs three years ago, and back then did the R/D on the propper torque for my application.

I have installed these studs in over two hundred motors, and have come up with a pattern and torque that has been working for years.

I Freely gave you my "hard earned" information on the recomended torque and this is what I get in return. Thanks!

It seems that Jeff Sponaugle is having no problems with the studs that he purchased from me, using my recomended torque.

What was it that I did to you to deserve this slam?

And for those of you that are interested, I have never had a stud strip out.

Quirt Crawford
Crawford Performance
Crawford Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 02:06 PM   #9
jblaine
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8512
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: St. Pete, FL
Vehicle:
2002 WRX chassis...
stage-infinity.com

Default

What slam? I don't see any slam at all.
jblaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 02:17 PM   #10
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 c_turner@ix.
netcom.com

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Quirt
I am sorry that ARP dose not agree with my torque specks.
I designed the studs three years ago, and back then did the R/D on the propper torque for my application.

I have installed these studs in over two hundred motors, and have come up with a pattern and torque that has been working for years.

I Freely gave you my "hard earned" information on the recomended torque and this is what I get in return. Thanks!

It seems that Jeff Sponaugle is having no problems with the studs that he purchased from me, using my recomended torque.

What was it that I did to you to deserve this slam?

And for those of you that are interested, I have never had a stud strip out.

Quirt Crawford
Crawford Performance

I am getting so damn tired of the internet and these forums. Vendors feel like we (consumers) owe them something. You have to tread lightly with them or they get pissed off. If you question something then thats a slam. This has to be the single worst form of communication on earth.

Quirt, With all due respect man... Who gives a crap who designed what and who gives a crap how your feelings play out in this. The guy purchased Bolts, He now has three sets of instructions for install, He spent ALOT of money on this motor and is worried and wondering which way to go.... All he needs is advice and reasurance...


Clark
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 02:21 PM   #11
Crawford/I-Speed
Vendor
 
Member#: 12347
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Oceanside, CA
Vehicle:
ECU ReProgramming
Dynapack AWD Dyno

Default

I know Quirt works very hard to supply people, including us, with accurate information. Hell, he works very hard all the time on anything. Perhaps he just took some comments to heart?
In any respect, Id trust Quirts information rather than some representative over the phone that probably has no where near the experience as Quirt does.

Chris
I-Speed USA
cescamilla@i-speedusa.com
Crawford/I-Speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 02:22 PM   #12
IA Performance
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 25194
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Boulder, CO
Vehicle:
2008 Forester XT 5mt
Dark Gray

Default

dang, no slam intended.

Ok, so I do the factory sequence but use your 20-40-65-85 specs? Is this with the ARP lube or with motor oil?

Please help me out as I am a customer that is tired of different information from 3 different solid sources.
IA Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 02:45 PM   #13
nmyeti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4980
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie
I am getting so damn tired of the internet and these forums. Vendors feel like we (consumers) owe them something.

Clark


With all due respect you are not longer just a consumer. Id say that between your relationship with Dyno-comp and your weekend tuning trips youve moved past that.

The second you started tuning cars for money you became a vendor.
nmyeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 02:48 PM   #14
Crawford Performance
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 42075
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Oceanside
Default

Sorry, I take what I do very serious.

I am available to answer your questions, but only if you ask!

I use the lube that I supplyed with the studs.

If you ask three different people the same question, you are bound to get different answers. That is human nature. Add performance to the equation and our egos seem to take over.

This is the exact process that I use.

First I make sure that nothing is at the bottom of the stud hole in the block. Do NOT use a tap to chase / clean the threads.

Then I put some oil on the bottom threds of the studs.

I then run them in untill they bottom out in the block, "they must bottom out".

Install the gasket and head.

Put the lube on the studs so that when you put the washers on there will be lube between the head and washer. Look at the washer and put the rounded outside edge against the head.

Put more lube on the studs, then install the nuts. Extra lube is better than not enough.

Torque to 20 ft lbs.
Torque to 40 ft lbs.
Torque to 60 ft lbs.
Torque to 85 ft lbs.

I let the motor sit for an hour or so and then retorque at 85.

If you are anal, retorque after running the motor.

I have checked the torque after running on the dyno and during tear down, the only time I see a change is when the motor has been overheated.

Good luck,
Quirt Crawford
Crawford Performance
Crawford Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 02:54 PM   #15
Thomas Ruble
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12694
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Under my car
Vehicle:
02 WRX/JDM EJ207RA
Unabomber Eeee-thug

Default

Quirt, thank you.
Tom
Thomas Ruble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 03:04 PM   #16
IA Performance
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 25194
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Boulder, CO
Vehicle:
2008 Forester XT 5mt
Dark Gray

Default

Thank you for the very complete write up. I appreciate your help and will install these later on tonight.

Quirt, for the $10,000 question, does anything change if I use a cometic head gasket that is 2mm thick specific for the sti 2.5L?
IA Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 03:19 PM   #17
Crawford Performance
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 42075
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Oceanside
Default

As for your $10,000 question, If the gasket bites into the head and block then I would recomend that you torque the head then loosen the nuts and then re-torque. Otherwise nothing will change.

Quirt
Crawford Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 03:21 PM   #18
mustardrex
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34103
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
08 STI
WRB

Default

I've never had to retorque the head studs on any of the motors i've built, be it subaru, ford, etc.. i wouldn't worry bout it.

As for the labor involved, last time i pulled one of my heads, i didn't need to remove the motor, and only took 6 hours from removal to reinstallation (for one side anyways), so it wouldn't be THAT bad.
mustardrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 03:37 PM   #19
dwx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8343
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:
2005 2012 Jeep
2013 DGM BRZ

Default

I installed my heads onto the 2.5 block last week sometime, with ARP studs, I thought it was all pretty self-explanatory...
dwx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 03:47 PM   #20
IA Performance
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 25194
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Boulder, CO
Vehicle:
2008 Forester XT 5mt
Dark Gray

Default

:P

Call me paranoid after reading a thread where a guy stripped his block.
IA Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 03:53 PM   #21
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 c_turner@ix.
netcom.com

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by nmyeti
With all due respect you are not longer just a consumer. Id say that between your relationship with Dyno-comp and your weekend tuning trips youve moved past that.

The second you started tuning cars for money you became a vendor.

Nice.. Following me around on the forums Nathan? Come on man.... Dont hold a grudge because I used another turbo builder man.. Its not that big of a deal dude.

That "second" happend in 1994 when I started operating a Dyno. I do not sell anything on the forums, I dont sell parts, I dont post advertisements and never offer to tune anyones car in posts. People come to me via email to request my services. Mainly due to word of mouth. I meet the requirements of this sites policy.



Q, Thanks for the Post man. I am going to copy that into a File and save it. Full of information. Sorry to post like that on this thread but thats what you should have responded with in the first place. Thanks!

ECS, Please do me a favor, Dont use my $19 trq wrench to trq these heads down. I think this calls for a real wrench that is calibrated :P

Clark
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 03:57 PM   #22
STR8OUT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15533
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: W.C., PA - taco heaven
Vehicle:
2010 Dodge Ram Hemi
boat, dirt bikes, bobcat

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by East Coast Scooby
:P

Call me paranoid after reading a thread where a guy stripped his block.
Its really easy to miscalibrate a torque wrench....maybe thats what happened.
STR8OUT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 04:19 PM   #23
8Complex

Moderator
 
Member#: 922
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Vehicle:
04 FXT
Red

Default

Look at it this way... the very worst that can happen is that you blow a head gasket (if you don't overtorque and pop the threads... which I have NO idea how that guy did it).
8Complex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 04:26 PM   #24
tolnep
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18602
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Planet tolnep
Vehicle:
2005 Moller Skycar
glow in dark purple

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Quirt
Do NOT use a tap to chase / clean the threads.

Was gonna say 'bark!' to all the controversy..

Anyway, why not use a tap to clean, de-bur. In the past I did this. Was recommended on other engine builds. I am only an amateur and mean no disrespect and am really curious why this is a no no.

As for a re-torque after a cool down. Seems to make sense but mabye not worth the effort if you have to remove the motor. Especially if you are careful about the initial build.
tolnep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 04:34 PM   #25
IA Performance
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 25194
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Boulder, CO
Vehicle:
2008 Forester XT 5mt
Dark Gray

Default

I just opend the box up an the cometic HP are a crush style and the service rep recommended not to back off the bolts when using them. In fact, they suggested not to use these gaskets if you are using the stock studs since you need to back them off.
IA Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ARP head studs V's OEM sti head bolts bugeyes Built Motor Discussion 84 06-01-2014 09:23 PM
JDM V7 heads and ARP Head Studs r0n Engine/Power/Exhaust 20 01-05-2010 03:35 PM
***Innovative Tuning crate engines, head work, NEW ARP Head Stud Kits, and MORE!!!*** Innovative Tuning Engine/Power/Exhaust 17 07-22-2008 03:33 PM
head porting and arp head studs..... ejsportcom Built Motor Discussion 6 03-24-2006 12:05 PM
ARP Head Stud Install Question -- Urgent seven881 Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 14 05-21-2003 04:57 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.