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Old 10-29-2003, 10:23 AM   #1
WRX Bamboo Steamer
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Question Opinions on APS TMIC article in SCC

Sports Car Compact magazine pretty much trashed the APS TMIC in their most recent issue. They compared it to stock and found that the stock ic did a better job of cooling the charge. The dyno chart did show a 10 hp improvments below peak for the APS unit but no real increase in peak hp. So is the APS IC a pile of junk or was the testing flawed?
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Old 10-29-2003, 10:39 AM   #2
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I have not read the artical but what you just posted is super interesting.
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Old 10-29-2003, 10:52 AM   #3
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Can you post which issue this was? I wanna check it out.... super interesting indeed...
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Old 10-29-2003, 10:52 AM   #4
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And I just let my subscription with SCC lapse. Can you give us some more info (too lazy to guy buy one at the store)?
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Old 10-29-2003, 11:11 AM   #5
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An IC is one of those things that requires tuning to get the most out of it, did they re-tune boost, fuel and timing for the new IC, or did they just slap one on and hope it would improve things?
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Old 10-29-2003, 11:50 AM   #6
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Dec '03 issue.

Even with dyno tuning they only record a peak gain of 1hp with the aps. For all the costs involved, aps unit + ecutek dyno tuning you'd think it would have done much better.
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Old 10-29-2003, 12:43 PM   #7
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Since my questions weren't answered in the last thread that mentioned this test I'll ask them here too.

Did they keep everything else constant? What boost were these tests done at? You'd think that if the manifold pressure was the same and the APS actually does have a lower pressure drop then the turbo wouldn't be working as hard and the IC inlet temp would be lower. Did they measure that? And were these tests done on a dyno or on the road? If on the dyno how did they cool the IC? And if the hood was closed did they use the larger APS or Sti scoop and the APS ducting?
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Old 10-29-2003, 12:51 PM   #8
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I always thought the stock intercooler is good for mild turbo upgrades like a VF30. I think the best thing to do is get a STI hood scoop for a little more are into the intercooler. The Seal around the intercooler is very important.

Eric
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Old 10-29-2003, 12:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by driggity
Did they keep everything else constant? What boost were these tests done at? You'd think that if the manifold pressure was the same and the APS actually does have a lower pressure drop then the turbo wouldn't be working as hard and the IC inlet temp would be lower. Did they measure that? And were these tests done on a dyno or on the road? If on the dyno how did they cool the IC? And if the hood was closed did they use the larger APS or Sti scoop and the APS ducting?
I really haven't had a chance to read the article very well, but they did dyno tune it on Vishnu's dyno. the hood was open with a fan, but I'm not sure if they made any boost adjustments.

a intercooler will be more impressive on the street / track than on the dyno anyway. I would be interested to see what a Vishnu or TurboXS IC would have done in the same situation.
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Old 10-29-2003, 01:01 PM   #10
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isn't that the rag that pimps nothing but Vishnu stuff. Seems I recall that every modded wrx that they test or write about is modified with Vishnu stuff. Might be slightly biased.
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Old 10-29-2003, 01:17 PM   #11
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i agree with azsubie....i looked @ the article briefly, and just the size of that intercooler has gotta do something! i don't know alot about aps products, although you can never please everyone!
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Old 10-29-2003, 01:43 PM   #12
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I believe that Vishnu is a good tuner and makes nice parts, but it's hard to take anything that SCC says seriously when it comes to him and the WRX. I wonder if his TMIC would have made any more power?
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Old 10-29-2003, 01:59 PM   #13
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The stock WRX intercooler is pretty big from the factory. Some things are not broken so some things shouldn't be fixed.
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Old 10-29-2003, 02:00 PM   #14
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Without proper ducting and a good seal a TMIC can be useless.
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Old 10-29-2003, 02:21 PM   #15
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In the article they used the proper APS splitter/seal and STi hood scoop. So technically they spent money on - aps tmic, seal, scoop + dyno tuning = 1 peak hp
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Old 10-29-2003, 02:31 PM   #16
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Its SCC folks.

Think about it.
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Old 10-29-2003, 02:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by mlambert
Its SCC folks.

Think about it.
I think the test numbers are valid since all testing/tuning was done at HKS and Vishnu tuning
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Old 10-29-2003, 03:01 PM   #18
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Testing APS products at Vishnu and you think thats valid?
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Old 10-29-2003, 03:18 PM   #19
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Exactly.
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Old 10-29-2003, 03:34 PM   #20
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nothing against vishnu tuning but id like to see the tests conducted somewhere else.

anyone else want to pay for the tuning to test it on my car?
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Old 10-29-2003, 03:36 PM   #21
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A larger TMIC is going to be beneficial when running more boost and/or a larger turbo running more boost. If you are running stock boost levels, I'm not sure you'd see any kind of power gain. If it takes longer to get heat soaked, then it's doing its job.
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Old 10-29-2003, 05:31 PM   #22
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I have been the driver while having my ecu road tuned via ecutek on quite a few occasions. Nearly all tuneing has been to the wastegate duty cycles. What has been clearly demonstrated, is that minor changes in air flow will have dramatic effects on boost. Yesterday, after installing a txs ver2 tmic, I was shocked to see that when I went full throttle in 4th, I did not overshoot the boost target. Seeing that with my own eyes has me seriously questioning the flow data on the stock ic. I am not doubting its resistance to heatsoak over the stocker, but the difference in pressure drop has me throwing up a red flag. If the roughly 3psi less pressure drop stuff were true, my wastegate duty cycles should have need to be adjusted.

Just thought I should share.

Sorry about any spelling.
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Old 10-29-2003, 07:15 PM   #23
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Default Acticle is true

In the new (12/03) edition of Sport Compact Car Magazine p. 182, there is a 13-page acticle regarding the new APS TMIC intercooler fitted on their WRX project car. This acticle gives pluses, and surprisingly a number of minuses regarding the large I/C effectiveness. I have the large APS I/C unit on my rex and this article hits it right on the nose. It's not that much better than stock, certainly not a good mod from a cost-to-performance standpoint.

This is a very detailed article with dyno plots and descriptions of various install problems encountered with their build-up car. I have mag in front of me now, $5.99 US plus a free calendar, O'boy.
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Old 10-29-2003, 07:30 PM   #24
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Post I feel the same

I read the same article in SCC and whether it is biased to vishnu's parts I do not know. However all the tests seemed legit and they had dyno plots to prove it. Some people say that a IC would be better tested on street/track rather than dyno BUT they had fans blowing on the engine to simulate the air the engine would get if the car was traveling med to high speeds. The engine was tuned and they saw a 10hp gain somewhere in the powerband but a total peak 1 hp gain. They also showed that in isolated instances (off dyno) that the APS IC was a few degrees cooler than the stock IC. For what it's worth I dont think I would spend $800-1000 on an IC if I was not running a BIGGER turbo or was at the equivalent to a turbo xs stage 4. Final point in my opinion if I was running a stock turbo with a few mods...I would stick with the stock IC with a few mods!!

just my 2 cents.
~Michael
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Old 10-29-2003, 07:43 PM   #25
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First of all, a bigger TMIC isn't going to create some enormous change in the way your car drives. It's more of a supporting mod than say, a boost controller or turbo. I have had both the MRT TMIC and I now have an APS TMIC. I immediately noticed better top end pull with both bigger intercoolers vs. the stock intercooler, which tells me a bigger TMIC is worthwhile, especially for the heavy modding I have done to my car. I haven't been able to measure intake temps, but I'm assuming they are cooler as well.

I did not notice any difference between the MRT and the APS, however - it just fit better and I like the splitter they have because it seals well to direct the most air into the intercooler.

I think if you ask the majority of people who are regarded as the most knowledgeable on this site, most would say that APS makes great products that are extensively tested and proven. I would certainly trust information from those people more than SCC - which certainly COULD be somewhat biased.
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