Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday September 2, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Archives > NASIOC Archives > General Forum Archive

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-17-2000, 04:31 PM   #1
uktena
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1267
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Angry BEWARE before you send money to AUTOMORPH

I recently ordered from AUTOMORPH and this is what has transpired. You decide if you want to send him your money. I know I won't do it again; unless he does the right thing and resolves this problem:


Subject: Re: Red/Clear Taillights
brewd@us.???.com wrote:
Andy,
You know me as uktena on the "i" Club; I recently ordered and received some taillights from you. I finally got around to installing them last evening and the right light has a crack in the corner. What do I need to do to get this replaced.

AUTOMORPHISM D AND P on
06/09/2000 08:21:31 PM
To: D M Brewer/Boulder/???@???US
Subject: Re: Red/Clear Taillights

Are you sure it was there before, problem is I am
home now and really have no access to the tails
anymore, let me know what you have in mind and we will
see.
Andy

brewd@us.???.com wrote:
Andy,
I'm sure it has a crack in the right corner of
the right lens. What I would like is a lens that isn't cracked. If they
were insured, one of us needs to collect the insurance. Then I could
order another lens from another source, since youíre not in a position
to supply another, at this time. How does that sound? Thanx.
Kind regards,
Mark Brewer

AUTOMORPHISM D AND P on
06/12/2000 11:37:50 PM
To: D M Brewer/Boulder/???@???US
Subject: Re: Red/Clear Taillights

Not sure what you mean. Insured? Explain further.
Andy


brewd@us.???.com wrote:
You know, insurance? The guys that pay when the carrier breaks something
in your shipment. The real point is, I paid; but the light is damaged.
What I want is an unbroken light or a refund on one light (which I would
return).

Mark Brewer

AUTOMORPHISM D AND P on
06/12/2000 11:37:50 PM
To: D M Brewer/Boulder/???@???US
Subject: Re: Red/Clear Taillights

They were mailed post so no insurance, and cannot do
another light. I am not sure if arrived broke, because
they were not when shipped. How bad is crack?
Andy

Mark Brewer wrote:
The crack is bad enough to let water in. And, yes
it WAS cracked when it arrived. How about, you send
me a $100.00 and I'll buy another light, elsewhere,
and send you the cracked one?
Mb

-----Original Message-----
From: AUTOMORPHISM D AND P
To: Mark Brewer
Date: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: Red/Clear Taillights

Probably sound like an ass but what am I going to
do with 1 cracked tail? Is it repairable? Keeping an
open mind but yours was only one cracked out of 20+ I
mailed back. Keeping open mind to resolve this. let
me know.

Andy

--- Mark Brewer wrote:
I can only assume your saying, that Iím ****ed
because it happen to me and you didn't insure my shipment.
By the way, you can do the same thing with the taillight that I'm
apparently going to have to do; put it on the car and use it.
I'll tell you what, how about I copy this whole string of messages
up on the "i" club site and we let the members decide whose right?

Mb

-----Original Message-----
From: AUTOMORPHISM D AND P
To: Mark Brewer
Date: Friday, June 16, 2000 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: Red/Clear Taillights

Hmmmmm some how I knew this was going to happen, my
>only question is how do I know you did not crack it
>while installing it or drop it??? I can only say I am
>willing to work this out but it must work both ways as
>I am sure lights left mint and extremely well
>packaged. if you want to post, post I have no
>objection to that. Let me know.
>
>Andy

Mark Brewer wrote

All you have is my word that I didn't crack it; I don't think that you
shipped it crack, I believe that it happened during shipping. As far as
"extremely well packaged", well my lights were taped together, wrapped in
bubble wrap and left to float (a.k.a. bounce around) in the oversized box.
Andy, the main point is you gambled with my $200.00 by not insuring the
shipment and now don't want to accept the responsibility for your actions.
I've sold a few things to people on the net and always insured the
shipments. You say you're will to work this out; I've offered options, but
all I've heard from you, so far, is "tough ****, you probably broke it". I
will wait until tomorrow for your options before posting this message
string, both individually and everytime you post something for sale.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
uktena is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 04:38 PM   #2
M8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 949
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NJ
Vehicle:
06 F2000
Speed Triple

Post

it sounds like he was trying to work with you. i have had nothing but good experiences buying from individuals on this board, but you need to remember that you are doing just that: dealing with individuals. i have Automorphs lights and i am very happy with them. you probably have not done yourself any favors by doing your laundry in public like this.

(edit=spelling)

[This message has been edited by M8 (edited June 17, 2000).]
M8 is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 04:56 PM   #3
tulit
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 338
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Toronto
Vehicle:
09 STi
White

Post

I agree with M8.

You were they agressor. He was trying to sort out with you the best way to deal with the problem and you didnt seem to want to listen.

Sorry
tulit is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 05:16 PM   #4
SubePwr
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 140
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Seoul South Korea
Vehicle:
1999 RS 2.5
Blue

Post

I would tend to side with UKT, I also understand the auto seems to be trying or maybe just accusing UKT of breaking the item.

I also sell stuff on the board and insure each and every piece... is it worth the extra cost? I think so... Auto can charge shipping/handling so it doesn't come out of his pocket but the customers... in my case I cover all shipping/handling...(no I am not trying to sell anything my shelves are empty)

I just think as a business person we have to except that things get damaged and exchange/refund as appropriate with no questions asked. This is why I insure everything so that I can do a claim without the customer having to jump thru hoops.

We will see how this turns out... ethically I think auto has to fix this, one way or another...

Jim
The Unknown STi Guy

Any other comments from other vendors?
SubePwr is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 05:33 PM   #5
RallyeX
Guest
 
Member#:
Thumbs up

Uktena is right.

Automorph should make sure parts are packaged
properly and INSURED to cover damage or loss.

From what I read in the post Automorph didn't really have a good answer of what he will do about the problem.

Unfortunately this is what happens when you do business with individuals , not a reputable dealer.

Just my .02,
RallyeX
 
Old 06-17-2000, 05:35 PM   #6
Rimmie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1350
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Blacksburg, VA, USA
Post

I agree as well. As much business that i have seen automorph do in the past 6 months he should insure each and every package as this is bound to happen sooner or later. Even if the lense wasn't cracked during shipping, spending the extra dollar or two would have avoided this whole mess. I never send packages uninsured, and neither should anyone else who is running a respectable business. You don't drive around in your car uninsured, do you??? (lame point, but the best i could come up with)

Just my $.02
Rimmie
Rimmie is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 05:44 PM   #7
NickSTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 626
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Miami FL
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5 RS
Black Diamond Pearl

Post

This is my contribution. Full disclosure I sent $475 to automorph when he first hit the i-club scene and I am a happy camper.

(1) Mike Moffa ships us the shoulder pads too. He says most people do not request the more expensive option which is insured. Buyer Beware, plain and simple.
(2) At least Mike let us know this.
(3) Cant you insure postal Automorph? I do all the time. Just ask and charge if answer is yes.
(4) Cant remember what 4 is.

Anyway, I would buy from Automorph again, and again, and again. The product came earlier than expected, and intact.

But Automorph maybe some advice now, let people know the full story. But it would seem you had no idea about insurance so obviously you did not know.
NickSTi is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 05:52 PM   #8
NickSTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 626
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Miami FL
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5 RS
Black Diamond Pearl

Arrow

Cmon guys, read the emails will ya. What did Automorph do wrong?
IF you say ship the package uninsured, I will disagree. He shipped them postal and did not know you could insure them. And what about the recipient? Did he ask is it insured? NO. Did Automorph say they were insured? NO. Do you know ignorance covered in the law? "Sorry I did not know." OH WELL! (somehow I KNOW this damn post is going to bite me!). I shipped $100 worth of games to a friend in Cayman, UNINSURED. The guy told me... oh for 15 bux more u can insure it. Well 1 month later, we realized the games were never coming. Did I say well you have to pay me anyway? no. It was a moral issue there (me being in Automorph's shoes). It will be a nice thing of him to take back the rear cluster and see if he can go to his supplier and get another one. But that is just being nice.
NickSTi is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 06:18 PM   #9
Overtime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1346
Join Date: Apr 2000
Post

Let me put it this way:

If I were Automorph, I would replace them. It's the decent thing to do...or at least refund partially to plug the crack somehow.

However, he has no obligation to replace them. His business is pretty straight forward...you send the money, he sends the knockoff item and you are happy that the price is as incredible as it is. It's a good business. We all like how it works.

Regarding the refund debate...I wouldn't be surprised either way. But it'd be a good thing for him to replace it.

Gotta go...that's my piece, anyway.
Overtime is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 06:28 PM   #10
Rimmie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1350
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Blacksburg, VA, USA
Post

Bottom line is, if you're going to run a business on the internet you must be prepared for things like this. It may just be inexperience as a small business owner, but everyone that i've ordered from off the internet has insured their products, no questions asked. Those taillights aren't cheap, and automorph has evidently sold more than one of them, so i would definely classify this as a business, backyard or not!!

Rimmie
Rimmie is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 06:47 PM   #11
jhuang76
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1284
Join Date: Apr 2000
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
Royal Blue Pearl

Post

The only thing Automorph really NEEDED to due was to warn people things weren't being shipped insured. I don't think any seller (individual) should be required to ship insured. If the recipient wanted insurance, than he/she should confer that to the seller AND also pay for it. In my view, it comes down to whether or not Automorph is telling the truth when he said that they were fine when it left his hands.

Again, it comes down to risk versus reward. Insurance costs money and for those willing to take the risk, than by means go ahead.
jhuang76 is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 06:57 PM   #12
wolve80
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1339
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Exclamation

This scenario is a BIG reason why I get things shipped to my job by UPS. Not everyone has this option, but UPS does guarentee delivery to commercial sites. I had my N1 muffler shipped next day air. It went out on a friday. Didn't get it monday. Called, the vendor called UPS, and found out the lost it, and they put a trace on it. It arrived, and when I checked it out, sure enough, it "Vanished" from UPS's records for a few days. I was refunded the $70+ for shipping, no questions asked.

Now, on this case, I side with the Uktena. The vendor should take responsibility for broken or damaged parts, even if it was from shipping. I would say Automorph, take them back, send them back to the vendor as damaged in shipping, they could possibly send them to the manufacturer and have them recycled. If Automorph had said they were not insured, then I'd feel differently.
wolve80 is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 07:15 PM   #13
ImprezaRS dot com
over boosted again
Moderator
 
Member#: 1458
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs CO USA
Vehicle:
2013 B9 Tribeca LTD
2005 Impreza 2.5 RS

Post

From the brief and non-contributory responses from automorph, it looks pretty "black and white" - he had no intention of working something out and hoped uktena would disappear. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

To Automorph: If you're playing with someone elses money, then be responsible for the consequences and pay the guy his money back and ship insured next time, don't try to save a buck and gamble. The money you saved on not insuring the other 20 shipments should cover the $100 refund.

To uktena: Shame on you for not requesting shipping through UPS with tracking and insurance.

Larry

PS: What I mean bu stall tactics is that NOT once did I see automorph offer his suggestion for a amicable resolution. He just kept asking uktena about what he wanted without agreeing to do anything or accept responsibility.

Secondly, uktena is not an aggressor. He didn't even suggest automorph knew it was cracked, he suggested it occured during shipping and left it to the shipper's fault.

This is still a very good lesson in poor communication here.

[This message has been edited by ImprezaRS dot com (edited June 17, 2000).]
ImprezaRS dot com is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 07:18 PM   #14
NickSTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 626
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Miami FL
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5 RS
Black Diamond Pearl

Thumbs up

Well at least the good thing is now people will ask now is that insured? I know I will.
NickSTi is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 08:01 PM   #15
SubePwr
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 140
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Seoul South Korea
Vehicle:
1999 RS 2.5
Blue

Post

I don't think it should be up to the customer to ask for it to be insured, yes it's safer that way, but when it comes down to it your buying a product in a certain condition (this one new I take it)if it is not received in the codition advertised or not received at all it is up to the seller to fix it ASAP.

I have mailed out about a 100 orders or so (insured them all, I work postal overseas for the AF and know the dealo) I have had only 1 that went astgray for awhile, I had mailed a set of rear under spoilers to Nav in PR after I had received his payment. After he called me to let me know it had been 2 or 3 weeks since I shipped them and he hadn't received them I mailed another set the same day in it's place. Then I would just deal with the post office to file a claim and not have my customer do it.

That is the way it should done... I also know that is the way most of us vendors do it.

I sure that Auto will come around and do the right thing... but as he stated if he no longer has any of then a refund is in order.

Jim
The Unknown "Backyard" STi Guy

SubePwr is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 08:07 PM   #16
DonA
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 355
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Jersey Shore
Vehicle:
08' VW Touareg II
Alaska Grey

Angry

Hmmm.. I've been waiting for my WRX trunk sticker for over 3 weeks from Automorph. He claims to have sent it but I assume he has no way to track it? Who's at fault if its lost? I got him my money quickly & intact.
DonA is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 08:57 PM   #17
SubePwr
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 140
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Seoul South Korea
Vehicle:
1999 RS 2.5
Blue

Post

Humm, I happen to have an extra WRX truck sticker
SubePwr is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 09:10 PM   #18
Gambit
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 102
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: The meeting place
Post

Dang! I am sure glad I don't live too far from his shop and not to mention i know where he lives.....
I've not done much bisness with him. Only once which was a long time ago.Before he came to the i club scene. I bought an 18mm no roll bar from him. He seems like a nice and genuine guy. Can't wait till he can get some alternative side skirts! come on Andy....
Gambit is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 09:38 PM   #19
Faraz
What?...
Do they speak English in What?

Moderator
 
Member#: 1459
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Allentown
Vehicle:
2008 WRX 5door MT
WR Blue

Angry

I'm with uktena ...Morph just kept saying "Keeping open mind to resolve this." and stuff but never liking, i guess, the ideas he came up with. Keeping your name good is worth $100 bucks or stuff like that. I run a small production company, and when someone tells me "My cd doesn't work" i don't doubt them i just send them another one... No questions asked because I like keeping my clients happy. That's a personal preference i guess.
Faraz is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 09:59 PM   #20
M8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 949
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NJ
Vehicle:
06 F2000
Speed Triple

Post

damn. i hope no one here ever has an axe to grind with me. as i see it, we have ONE SIDE of a situation. thats it. he may or may not have written any of those things. all these definitive "this is the way he should have done it" statements are being based on hearsay.
M8 is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 10:10 PM   #21
VALENTA
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 888
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Montreal, CANADA
Vehicle:
2011 STI
White

Thumbs up

Sorry to hear about your inconveniences.
I ordered clear corners from Andy and he sent me the package extremely quickly and with no damage. They were very well wrapped and I knew very well that for 70$ US for clear corners that I was not payn for insured UPS shipping! The price says it all!
I have friends who ordered over 300$ worth of merchandise from Andy and everything came with only minor problems such as a tear in the package which exposed the rear skirts, but they knew waht they were paying for.
As customers we also have a duty to make sure we get all info on what we are ordering! As far as my experiences go with Andy, I find him a good guy and I am sure this will be resolved, but putting it public was not a good move! You guys are still in discussion, so there is no reason to get angry and put Andy's reputation on the line!
Take care and good luck!
Jan
VALENTA is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 11:12 PM   #22
Tarmac RS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1020
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Russia with Love
Post

Well, put it this way, it wasnt insured, and whether it got there broken, or got lost, the CUSTOMER loses. However, not the customers fault at all. It is the responsibility of the business to make sure their product gets shipped in a safe and timely manner.

All that comes to mind is how Automorph used to rag on JC Sports about their customer service and also that he would never treat his customers in that fashion.

Stop jerking him off and correct it.
Tarmac RS is offline  
Old 06-17-2000, 11:20 PM   #23
P.K. Motorsports
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1110
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: USA
Vehicle:
1999 RS
Silver

Post

I too have had nothing but good luck with Andy (just installed the red/clears today!). I'd say for what he's charging anybody should have been able to guess that they were being shipped uninsured.

That said, I insured every single ALK that went out without being asked by the customers because it was cheap ($.35 / $100 UPS) to do so and I just didn't want to chance it. On the other hand, I bet insurance from Taiwan is another story, maybe very expensive. I can't put myself in Andy's shoes and say I would have insured it. I didn't insure some of the single swaybar links sent via Priority Mail because I knew I could replace them cheaply if something happened in the mail.

I think they need to split the cost of a new one. I hear the subaruparts.com has these now, maybe that's the way to go. Asking Andy to pay the entire amount is not fair, he never gave out any money-back gaurantee.

By the way, somebody said the red and clears were knockoffs. They are not. They're made by Koito, a third party supplier for the Japanese automarkers. Take a close look at your stock taillights - that's right, made by Koito.
P.K. Motorsports is offline  
Old 06-18-2000, 12:21 AM   #24
Keirik
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 507
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island, NY/ china
Vehicle:
2005 Saab 9-2x Aero
black

Post

here's my take on the thing...Automorph is wrong is this case. He, being the retailer has an obligation to provide the product delivered in the condition it was sold. It's not the consumer's responsibility for that. These are the kind of issues a retailer has to deal with. I could see if he was offering to pay for shipping...but obvious he isn't...so he should just include insurance within the price of his shipping/handling. If he doesn't know you can insure postal.....his fault!
What struck me as it being prety cut and dry was this ..."Probably sound like an ass but what am I going to
do with 1 cracked tail? Is it repairable? Keeping an open mind but yours was only one cracked out of 20+ I mailed back" ........well, exactly Automorph.....he sent out 20..19 of them went problem free...one of them didn't....that's his responsibility...because when all is said and done....he is the one walking away with the $$$...even if it is at a good price. If he can't anticipate the possibiliy of a problem and be willing to take responsibility, he shouldn't sell anything. To be honest, if he doesn't replace the part, I'm not going to buy anything from him...and to be honest, I was interested in a few items.
Keirik is offline  
Old 06-18-2000, 04:36 AM   #25
Force[FED]
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 292
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Elmer, NJ USA
Vehicle:
2008 BMW 335xi Coupe
Alpine White

Post

As soon as Automorph wrote, "What am I going to do with one cracked rear light?" you should BEWARE. Just reading that line mad me angry, and it's not even my money. This don't sound like the response I would want from any business that I buy something from (which is why they wouldn't ever have my business).

Honestly, I wouldn't give a crap what they do with the cracked light, but it's their job to help out the customer that is getting screwed. If I were uktena, I would send BOTH of the lights back and demand ALL my money back. Then take the money and buy from a legit source.

Kevin
Force[FED] is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
know a CHEAP way sending money to the UK?? Gil Off-Topic 38 07-20-2009 07:28 PM
Have you donated money to any of the candidates? FunkerVogt Political Playground 9 12-20-2007 03:44 AM
Question: if one Siamese Twin murdered someone, could you send them to prison? Eric SS Off-Topic 36 12-14-2003 11:14 AM
For those of you with money to burn: bruticus Off-Topic 7 10-14-2003 05:25 PM
who do i send money to for vendor status? boogerwrx General Community 11 12-04-2002 11:46 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.