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Old 11-06-2003, 01:13 AM   #1
Jose O Perez
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Thumbs down 280+hp N/A, Who said it can't be done?

Found this on e-bay. I will be contacting the seller so he can explain me how he managed to get that
280hp N/A RS
Yeah, right..
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Old 11-06-2003, 01:15 AM   #2
Blindeye_03
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I think he meant 180hp?

No way a 280hp car would run 14.9 in the 1/4. Atleast I hope not...

-justin
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Old 11-06-2003, 02:31 AM   #3
RawCode
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blindeye_03
I think he meant 180hp?

No way a 280hp car would run 14.9 in the 1/4. Atleast I hope not...

-justin
Maybe with a stall...
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Old 11-06-2003, 03:00 AM   #4
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Cobb stage 2 /= 280hp
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Old 11-06-2003, 03:49 AM   #5
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$3k titanium exhaust...wow that's more expensive then JIC and that's a feat that no one has accomplished, i highly doubt that's a Cobb Stage 2 car, especially seeing as how he oinly ran 14.9, even with all that crap in the car a 280 HP(yes even at the flywheel) car would be running much lower into the 14's
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Old 11-06-2003, 05:56 AM   #6
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that or he's a crappy driver
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Old 11-06-2003, 06:58 AM   #7
Blindeye_03
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Quote:
Originally posted by RawCode
Maybe with a stall...
Maybe he stalled it twice jk.

Well 'assuming' it is a stage 2 car, and I mean EVERYTHING stage 2 off their site for the RS; its going to cost a hell of alot more than $3k like he said on Ebay.

-justin
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Old 11-06-2003, 10:52 AM   #8
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What a load of CRAP. Dcoty's car recently ran a really low 14 and he dyno'd in the 160's at the wheels. With his build, that suggests around 220-225Chp or so. I have Cobb building me a stage II head right now, and have been led to believe I will be making around 215Chp with my other mods. And anyone who knows this car knows without a custom manifold or ITB's this engine won't break 250Chp...I call BS or maybe the CF hood and clear corners gave him an extra 50 hp...
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Old 11-06-2003, 11:00 AM   #9
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uhhh, anyone else notice the switch under the steering wheel, i'm wondering what its for, i can't spot a nos line, but thats the only way he would be able to claim anything over 200 with his setup, also, anyone notice how the $3000 exhaust still uses the stock rubber mounts...
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Old 11-06-2003, 12:20 PM   #10
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There are many ways a real 280 horsepower car can run horrible times.

The type of rating system could be confused, dynos can be abused for optimistic numbers, the car could weigh alot or be running huge wheels, etc.

I have seen a 97 Cobra with gears and an exhaust pulling low 15's with over 250 rwhp at the track. So whats your point?

If your point is that this car is far overrated and the parts in no way line up with his statement, then your right. However, stating that someone with a 280 horsepower car (whatever that means) cant run anything slower than high 13's your very wrong.

By the way, when is the rest of the world going to start using trap speeds to judge power? Estimated time is indicative of driver ability to a larger degree.

Oh well, I guess ET's are better than 0-60 times.
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Old 11-06-2003, 01:26 PM   #11
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A 14.9 even if he is a horrible driver is really really bad. I pulled a 15.6 with just a COBB CAI and cat back exhaust with heavy ass 18" P1 rims. I think ruff on here ran a 15.005 with just an intake. He would have to be a horrible driver. Im sure that guy with the cobra is a very bad driver too. Or maybe he didnt launch the car.
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Old 11-06-2003, 01:36 PM   #12
Matt Monson
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Snagtastic,
What is your point??? We are talking about a specific Subaru RS, not some hypothetical 280hp car...If that particular RS runs 14.9's, then it doesn't have 280hp, plain and simple. Nuff said.
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Old 11-06-2003, 03:16 PM   #13
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maximal torque you can get from a 2.5L engine on pump fuel: 230 lb.ft of torque at 100% volumetric effiency.

max hp needed rpm to produce 280 hp, assuming peak hp rpm is the same ase peak torque rpm: 6400 rpm

usually, there is a 10% torque drop between max torque rpm and max hp rpm. to then, you can assume the engine need to rev to 7100 rpm.

usually, if an engine have 100% volumetric efficiency, he's cammed for a pretty narrow powerband. you know, the honda style powerband that suck. paired with AWD, this kind of powercurve would destroy the lauch of the car. too much grip to spin the wheels, not enough power down low to get good 60' times

well, i'm sorry to prove that this is physicaly possible, because i was thinking at first it would be impossible. however, i didn't see any parts for the EJ25 in 5 years that you raise the compression that high, and rev the engine that high too. I still believe in BS
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:01 PM   #14
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Yeah,
I saw the car for sale too, no way he is putting down those numbers. Next season I'll hopefully be running quicker then what he managed, and with alot less. I just need a new clutch first I can only manage 15.1s with consitant 15.2s now. But this is after my stereo install (3/4" mdf sub box, JL 10w6v2, 2 JL amps, dynamat extreme in trunk decklid and doors, etc) and my clutch slips horribly now.
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:29 PM   #15
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My point was that that Cobra was running about a second slower than it should have dead stock...and it was modified. Yet, he was running 97 in the quarter mile instead of the typical 102 (and he was shifting before the power peak).

Any car, even a 2.5 RS holds to the rule that human error can cause bad times in the quarter mile. Who knows...could he have been a crappy driver or had other mods that would limit his times (as I noted above).

Just because a car is similar to ones we drive, doesnt mean it will perform the same. Think the driver had Mario Andretti take his car down to the track and place some times for him? Think he did the same type of launch as we would do (as you know, AWD launches vary a TON)?

My point isnt that he HAS the power he has claimed, quite frankly if he can break 200 chp I would be surprised. Then again, he might have gotten his numbers from a G-Tech and a 6,000 clutch drop. Are all dynos created equal...or did he even get his readings from a dyno? Two questions to be thought about.

Trap speeds dont vary near as much as time specifically because sometimes slower ET's yield faster trap speeds (by a small margin). Hence, a crappy driver who can launch his car decent and shift quickly at reasonable RPM points can get the same trap as a pro who wants to send his transmission to "parts bin" heaven.

In regards to ET's...the difference between a 14.9 and a 14.0 can be hardly felt when driving the car. A seemingly good launch can result in a crappy launch when you get the slip at the end of the track.

Monson: The only problem I see is that if one assumes that 280 always = better than 14.9 in the quarter mile for a standard issue 2.5 RS car, its also assuming alot of variables that cant be seen.


Variables:

Mods and degree of prep before runs (air pressure, icing, stripping interior, etc)
Day (altitude, temp, humidity, specific track, etc)
Type of driver, style of shifts, weight of driver.
Weight of car (less a point typically for identical car models)
Condition of existing parts (clutch, motor, transmission, tires)

This is just a small list.

A note about Dcoty's car. I have read his spec sheet many times, its an amazing car. I cant wait till he looks into a few main issues and breaks 13's (gluck Dcoty, keep us posted).

However...we all estimated somewhere around 250chp due to his 14.28 (approx) @ 94.5 mph. Later the dyno (albeit conservative) that he used showed he had dramatically less.

This alone is proof that human error does exist, alot of his time is due to skill (as his 60 foot times have shown), and there are many variables that can change times.

Last edited by Snagtastic; 11-06-2003 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 11-06-2003, 05:26 PM   #16
Matt Monson
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Snagtastic,
Whoa cowboy...Who the heck said you were being pretensious???Are you reading something into a few lines of print...I honestly didn't see the relevance of the Cobra example. Your response here makes it crystal clear, even if it is deliberately obnoxious, as your tone seems to indicate that you think I have in some way called you out or said you were wrong or who knows what I have done to insult you...relax...we're all freinds here.
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:03 PM   #17
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Point taken,

I must have taken one of your question marks as the wrong tone, ill edit a bit.

Tks for the clarification, my apologies.
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:14 PM   #18
Matt Monson
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snagtastic
Point taken,

I must have taken one of your question marks as the wrong tone, ill edit a bit.

Tks for the clarification, my apologies.
No worries man... As you get to know me, you'll learn I do this stupid triple punctuation thing on everything...whether it be...'s, !!!'s, or ???'s. It wasn't personal...

And now that you re-explained, I do see what you were getting at. I did speak in absolutes, but in this instance I just couldn't see how the seller could claim 280hp and post such low ET's on that car as if it was a selling point. If he(the driver) was the weaklink, he should of had a buddy drive it and get some better numbers.
I fully believe that a car with a Cobb stage II set up can do the trap times claimed, but there's still no way that car has 280hp.
peace...
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:52 PM   #19
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Hey guys,

I would say 280 hp is high for sure. Without a new intake mnaifold no way are we breaking 250 hp.

I dynod 161.8 and i went back to the 1/4 track too! I had my 17s on though, that was dumb but I diddnt have any tools to swap my tires and I went on the last track day.

Anyway, ill edit this post later with all the numbers (slips are still down in the car), but it was a 14.10@ 95.xx with a 60" of a mid-low 1.9. I had a 1.8 that day but I could not replicate it. I had only a limited time before the bracket racing started too, i wish i had a few more runs, but i had quite a few.

Anyway Im knocking on 13's door but no one is home yet. My brother picked up the aluminum for the new intake manifold and all he needs to do is order the runners and we can start welding. It will be done by xmas.

Later guys!
Dan

Last edited by dcoty; 11-06-2003 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 11-07-2003, 11:09 AM   #20
Farfrumwork
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Talking

sweet mother of internal combustion!!!

nice times dcoty . 95.xx mph is really cookin', and you're right there for 13's. some lighter 16's and you'd have it I bet.

great job, and keep us all posted with the intake manifold - it sounds sick. pic's and commentary throughout would be appreciated

any thoughts on an equal length header? I think it would benifit your car to the tune of 10hp up top... I want to see a 13.7@96+ outa that beasty

good luck
chad

damn, this all makes me want cams - badly!
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Old 11-07-2003, 11:23 AM   #21
Matt Monson
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Chad,
Don't forget, his clutch was on it's last legs, as well as the whole wheel issue. He'll get that magic 13 once the tracks thaw in the spring...
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Old 11-07-2003, 07:04 PM   #22
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yeah dcoty if it hasn't been posted a mod list would be sweet!
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Old 11-08-2003, 09:56 AM   #23
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dcoty- FTI. When Andres hit 14's, he did it with light weight 15". Hey for what it's worth.
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Old 11-08-2003, 05:55 PM   #24
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t.rod- I did not know that, maybe some superlight 15s would make me much happier. I just wish i planned better and put on the 16' rims. I also want to lighten the car with an aluminum hood and trunk, but that will be later on. Right now Im saving up for RA gears for over the winter.

heres my mod list for those who are curious:
Strommung cat back
random tech high flow cat
borla headers
cobb CAI
UD pulley
closed deck block
lightend/balanced/knifeedged crank
bored just shy of 2.6 litres
oliver forged con rods
CP 11:1 compression pistons
Cobb racer cams
ported heads
cobb springs
cobb retainers
custom made ss valves
9lb flywheel
bully 6-puck clutch
STi tranny mounts
STi motor mounts
LINK stand alone
8,000 rpm redline

Thats it, i think I shoudl do some superlight wheels and with the RA gears and new intake mnaifold I think it should be some good improvements.

Farfrumwork- I am considering equal length headers for my cra as well, but I just dont know which company to go with. Brullen is high on my list right now.

Dan
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Old 11-10-2003, 12:54 AM   #25
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Sounds like a sweet machine, all motor - the final mod would be a bottle of nitrous just in case, like you'd ever need it or anything
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