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Old 11-13-2003, 12:58 PM   #1
Night Wolf
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Member#: 48379
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: upstate NY
Vehicle:
1993 Coupe DeVille
Slate Bronze Metallic

Default Hey guys....few questions

Hey all, I am new here, and had a few questions, I posted it in the main room but some people said I would have better luck if I asked you guys, instead of reposting the same thing, I figure I will just include the link:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...60#post4990660

Let me know what you guys think..... if all goes well, we will be going down tomorrow to check out the one GL.

Although I am a domestic guy myself, Subaru is one of the few imports I like, acctually I have always liked Subaru and pretty much all of their stuff
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Old 11-13-2003, 03:21 PM   #2
Flowmastered87GL
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Location: Portland Oregon
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2005 Baja Sport
Regal Blue Pearl

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Get the 4WD.... just yank the engine, replace the head gasket, timing belts, and all the seals and for around $200 you will have a like new engine

The engine is very easy to work on once you understand where stuff is. Just mark everything when you take it off.

www.usmb.net -> the ultimate subaru message board is a great place to go to find all us old schoolers. Some of us can reseal an EA82 (the engine in those cars) with our eyes shut

if the 4WD is indeed an 88 then its fuel injected.. much less hassle than a carb. Just make sure the head gasket was due to age and not a radiator. If it overheated make sure to geta dual row radiator (about $130) Also make sure the thermostat isnt stuck, I cooked a turbowagon that way once.
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Old 11-13-2003, 04:28 PM   #3
DerFahrer
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Orlando, FL
Vehicle:
2000 Legacy B4 RSK
*Formerly subyluvr2212*

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Get the 4WD. Use it once when you need it and you'll never want to go back. I worship the 4WD system on my XT, and although I have never used it, Mike (Flowmastered87GL) swears by dual-range trannies

I've never done a headgasket before, but they're a Subaru's only weakness if you ask me. Replace it and everything will be hunky-dory. It would be worth looking into having the heads checked for warpage and cracks too, as well as having a basic rebuild on them...

Do all this and you'll have a fantastic car for less than a grand
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Old 11-13-2003, 06:38 PM   #4
Night Wolf
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Member#: 48379
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: upstate NY
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1993 Coupe DeVille
Slate Bronze Metallic

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Well, I am very, very tight on money right now, and I am not going to be too picky, I just need something to run in the winter to keep the Caddy off the road.....

I called the guy, we are gonna go look at the '87 tomorrow, if it all checks out and it is good, I'll offer $100 and see what happens. I will do a regualr tune up....cheap stuff, should be around $50 or so......for a picture, you can check out the auction (never sold, only 10min away)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2441245752

from the single picture, it dosn't look to be in too bad of shape, then again I don't care, as long as it is safe (IE no rot through in structual areas etc..) then I can care less, I do not need a car to show off to friends, or something with gobs of power or luxury features etc.... that's what the DeVille is for But I think this would be neat. Plus, it is a stick, and while I have only drove a huge '66 Reo oil truck and an old International pickup around a parking lot, I will have to learn to drive at high speeds, which is no problem, I have always wanted to have a standard.

Like I was saying about the money situation.....this will just be for this year, if I really like the car/dosn't give me trouble, I'll hold on to it, butnext year when I have more money, around $1k or so, I may want to get an early 90's Legacy with the AWD.....not sure though, too far into the future. I just need something that is cheap, cheap to maintain and will run through the winter.

If for whatever reason I do not get this '87, I will consider the '88 4WD....the 4WD GL in '88 WAS fuel injected? hmm..... the guy was asking $250, he might go down.....but I do not want to have to put gobs of money into this etc.... I dunno, but first we are gonna check out the '87 tomorrow.

When I e-mailed the guy about the '88 4WD this is the reply I got:

Quote:
I believe it is the headgasket, that is what I was told, as far as I know there is no damage to the engine, the body is ok, the 4wd works fine, it has one broken directional the plastic cover is smashed. except for that it would pass inspection. It is a good running car. It will start, but I have not run it in awhile.
So I will have to see, I saw a head gasket kit for these cars on ebay, it was like $60, not sure on the price form a local auto store though.

Like I said, forgive my lack of knowladge on these engines....I am very familer with both carbs and FI, but all my knowladge is domestic cars, and mostly V8's at that..... I have worked on old Poncho's, 307, helped rebuilf a Ford 5.0 (FI) etc.... I never worked on a boxer engine (although the planes I will be flying have boxer engines) let alone many 4cyl. (Tech 4 and Quad 4 in my '90 and '91 Grand Am's don't count......project that never took off)

Any other info about anything though?

I will let everyone know what happens tomorrow with that '87, for $100-$150 though I can't expect much...... it says the car has 207k miles, I know on any car that is high, and all depends on how well it was taken care of...but is that alot on these engines?

I am looking forward to getting either of them, and if not one of these 2, then another just like it, good in the winter, and something to mess aroudn with in the apple orchards around here (since 4x4'ing the DeVille isn't cool....although I have, but not any more)

Thanks everyone for all the help

BTW here is a picture of my DeVille, this was taken Aug. 23rd at Lebannon Valley Dragway, it was at the Grand Am Owners Club (GAOC) meet, not the best picture of my car, and it was both very dirty and muddy, but IMO one of the best pictures I have...I just like it (had to resize and bring quality down so it would fit the allowed file size) I'll just say quickly what makes this car rare: it is the last year for the Coupe DeVille....EVER, and the paint color, Slate Bronze Metallic came out in '93 and ended in '93, making it a 1-year only color, being that my car is a Coupe, and has the really rare color, there were only 119 of these cars made in the world with the loss ratio after 11 years.....who knows how many are left.... I love this car though.... here she is
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Old 11-13-2003, 08:10 PM   #5
Night Wolf
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Member#: 48379
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: upstate NY
Vehicle:
1993 Coupe DeVille
Slate Bronze Metallic

Default

Also, here is a crazy thought.... IF I do get this GL, and IF it is good, runs well and I really like it, it is hard to convert it from FWD to 4WD? Just a matter of getting the extra parts and putting them in or much more difficult? just something that flew into my mind.....
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Old 11-14-2003, 12:24 AM   #6
Flowmastered87GL
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Location: Portland Oregon
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2005 Baja Sport
Regal Blue Pearl

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IF its only for 1 year and you dont want to hold onto it the FWD car would suffice, but the 4WD would probably turn out to be a winter keeper.... What I would suggest if you get the one needing head gaskets is JUST doing the head gaskets, front and rear main seal and cam seals (and water pump and oil pump seals). you can leave valve cover gaskets and plugs and wires, cap/rotor..... and stuff for later when you have more money.

And yes I swear by dual range trannies... today I launched at 5000 RPM and my 100 pound toolbox ended up upside down in the back of my wagon
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Old 11-14-2003, 08:57 AM   #7
Machine Age Victim
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Chapter/Region: South East
Location: my job is a hobbie to most
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2008 BMW 328i Conv.
2001 Kawasaki ZR-7S

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Remember the cars could still be an EA81, take pics if you can, if the engine is an EA81 then definatly buy the 4WD one, much easier to work on, if it is NOT fuel injected then it is the EA81, check out www.cars101.com archives section

207k on an early model Subaru is just getting broke in the bodies will rot away before the engine goes
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Old 11-14-2003, 02:48 PM   #8
Night Wolf
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Member#: 48379
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: upstate NY
Vehicle:
1993 Coupe DeVille
Slate Bronze Metallic

Default

Well, in a few hours I am gonna check out the '87....

....I am not sure how long I will keep it, but even if I spend $200 total (car, tune up etc....) well, then I need snow tires (just 2 in the front) I figure I am still ahead, for what it would cost for the DeVille to get ready for winter (almost $500) and I feel much better keeping the DeVille off the road and such. But if it runs well and nothing is wrong with it etc... I'll hold onto it, unless I reallly really want a 4WD next year etc....

Anyone with these cars...how good are they in FWD? like can you have fun in the snow, dirt, grassy apple orchard and stuff and not worry aobut getting stuck? or do they get stuck easy? I know the tires on my DeVille are not good on anything but dry pavement (not the car, but the tires) as one night I took a detor thru an apple orchard, grass was wet, I was going maybe 15mph, going down a hill and tried to stop the beast, and, well, ABS was really trying to help but the car almost slide down the whole hill, I came to a stop, threw her in reverse and did a reverse 3 point turn (again, traction limited) then ahd to drive back up the hill I went down (not even steep) which I had to feather the gas up just to keep going....

IF I did get the 4WD one, I would only replace the stuff (this year) that HAD to be done..... but since the engine is horizontally opposed..... does the engine need to be taken out of the car for the heads to come off? becuase if that is the case it would be too much work and woudln't be worth it.......

Machine..... all three engines you listed are EA81.... I am getting confused, which are the good ones and which are bad? how would I tel? (sticker somewhere tc...?)

207k isn't too bad on these enignes? how well do the clutch and tranny hold up?

From the one picture in the auction, the only bad spots on the car seems to be the right rear quarter panel is dented, and some rust on the right rear fender... I can't tell if the rockers are either completly rusted, or it is just the reflection from the ground.....either way I am gonna see it in a few hours......

.....real quick...anything to check or look at or anything? I mean, for $100 I can't be real pickey here, but anything in particular?
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Old 11-14-2003, 06:57 PM   #9
Night Wolf
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Member#: 48379
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: upstate NY
Vehicle:
1993 Coupe DeVille
Slate Bronze Metallic

Default

Well, we checked it out, about the Subaru:

rust wasn't TOO bad, someone must have backed into a pole kinda slow with the rear bumper, shocks for the rear hatch were worn (who cares) the oil was a little below the L on the dipstick, but when it was running, according to the oil pressure guage (dunno if it was accurate or not) it was about 3/4 the way up, I think 35 or 45 was in the middle...otherwise if it was accurate, the oil pressure is really good, the alternator was charging the battery too, no check engine light or anylike that was on, and once it turned over it started up. the tranny was pretty tight and went into gear well, clutch was good, but it needs rear brakes (they were grinding) One thing that is interesting is the engine is fuel injected, not a carburated like I origanally thought....pricing on it is not done yet, anywhere from $100-$200 with it looking to be more like $150+

While I didn't drive the car, my mothers boyfriend (as of 15 years) did, since he is guiding me along on all of this.

To move the Subaru we had to move an older Nissan Sentra (stick) out of the way (then tried to jump the Subaru as it was dead, but cables were shot so we put a differnt battery in) the Senta was carburated, ran good, although seemed a little hard to go into reverse, they wanted $100 for that....

....but sitting right there was a '72 Chevy Chevelle/Malibu 4door, auto, stright 6, 2bbl etc.... it was in general good condition, the bottom part of the fenders were rotted, interrior was nice, we got the hood open, but the battery in that was dead, it was getting dark too.....we may go back, check the under body of that, see/hear it run and drive around, although they were asking $300, they are very reliable and extremly easy to work on...I don't like the idea of using such a nice classic as a winter car, but it's been around for 34 years and I am sure seen it's share of winter...... but if I got that and in the summer had money, it is just dying for a V8 transplant and to be fixed up....

....but the thing that comes down to right now, for any of the cars is money, which I do not have much of..... my summer job ended, and I havn't found a winter job yet (after like 15 friggin apps in) so I have no income, I only have money in the bank for next months car insurance + about $80 after that, and have like $25 in my wallet, tonight I am gonna unload a crap load of stuff on ebay.....

I dunno if we are going back tomorrow or not..... I personally liked the Subaru, but it will need a brake job, and who knows what else, although it is still considered.....we want to hear how the Chevelle runs and drives and see about that too....

but with this money thing, I am probally just gonna run the DeVille in the mean time, with the regular tires on it and without the undercoating.....if it starts snowing a bit, I'll just stay off the roads the best I can, and when I do just wash the underbody etc.... atleast until I get a job and get income.....

I have 3 more payments of $338/month car insurance, then in Febuary, I have 6 months of no payments, THEN I'll have money and what not etc.....

From my very limited time int he Subaru, I liked it, it needed a good cleaning, but I liked the gauges, it had AC (not sure of it's condition) hand crank windows (which are good in this case, atleast there are no motors or switches to go out) the rear wiper works, parking brake worked etc..... overall for the price it wasn't bad, but it did need a brake job, and that can be like $200......

But all this comes down to money, and this sucks, I guess I'll run the DeVille for now, take it easy and only drive to where I must go, atleast until I get a job and get more money....... I'll have to see.
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Old 11-15-2003, 03:07 AM   #10
Flowmastered87GL
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Regal Blue Pearl

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Run 20 W 50 in eithe car and the oil should be fine....

Make sure to check it every other time you put gas in it just to be sure though

Both cars SHOULD EA82 (OHC design not the OHV design of the EA81)

Meaning... timing belts MAY be an issue.... they could break at any time.... so records help. however if they do break NO damage occurs whatsoever... so its not a big deal if you have AAA.

Better yet spend the $50 and change em and remove all doubt.

And by the way... and oil guage 3/4 of the way up is good... when its dead or the engine is tapping (needs head work or oil pump work) then its cool.. Trust your ears... if the car is quiet and idles, its not half bad... especially for ANYTHING under $500
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Old 11-15-2003, 10:50 AM   #11
Night Wolf
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Member#: 48379
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: upstate NY
Vehicle:
1993 Coupe DeVille
Slate Bronze Metallic

Default

yeah the engine was fuel injected, it sound pretty good..... from what I could see, it looked like the tming belts were kinda worn, but it was just dark and I saw them while looking for the oil dipstick, that is good though that is the timing belt went, it wouldn't wipe out half the engine (I have neverworked on a car with a timing belt, only timing chain)

Yeah, I was thinking, wow, if that guage is correct, and the engine is low on oil as it is, that is really good pressure.....

....we are gonna see, Richie (mom's boyfriend that is helping me along) really would like for me to get the old Mailbu/Chevelle....so I am gonna see, today is job hunting day though, I am gonna go around and get apps and other good stuff, I really need a job, once I get a job, and I have income, then I can start doing stuff

We havn't heard the Chevelle run or drove it yet, (those things were extremly reliable and some of he most easy engines to work on) not sure what I am gonna do, but I havn't forgot about the Subaru, so we'll see.....
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Old 12-13-2003, 06:50 AM   #12
electryc_monk
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Highland Village, Tx
Vehicle:
88's GL-10(x2), XT6
Blue,silver, white

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Hey Dude, get the FWD. you'll survive just fine.

I've had a Dual range subie since 1993/94 winter season in Michigan. Granted I am now in Texas but still it had the FWD/4Hi/4Lo 5 spd.

I could do an awful lot in FWD only and only when i felt "lazy" or "Wanted" to get squirrelly would I jump into 4Hi or 4Lo.
my first subie was the 86 carb'd GL 4WD wagon

that tranny and the hill holder got transplanted (via me and a buddy) back in 2001 spring break into the curtrently lifted 87 turbo wagon (it was an auto).

Relax enjoy and don't be afraid to ask questions.....
here's a link for a few hundred pages of a Factory Service manual to let you read in PDF format......

http://www.finleyweb.net/default.asp?id=142
And if your curious take a gander at my geocities site for visual proof of the michigan cancer as the necessity for the transplan to occur back in 2001.
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