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Old 06-26-2004, 04:20 PM   #651
WiredWRX
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OOOOPS< bad post, sorry
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Old 06-26-2004, 07:11 PM   #652
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looks pretty clear to me that the Cusco or Fujitsubo are the best ones.
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Old 06-26-2004, 08:40 PM   #653
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Those graphs suck.
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Old 06-26-2004, 08:47 PM   #654
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Old 06-26-2004, 09:37 PM   #655
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Quote:
Originally posted by santofontana
Those graphs suck.
no they don't. they are like 2800x2100 resolution. or maybe you didn't see the links he posted with the huge images.
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Old 06-27-2004, 10:13 AM   #656
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Quote:
Originally posted by Enigma76
Where did you come to this conclusion? At least on the stage 2 car, most of the headers are in the same boost range; the fujitsubo header has a bit more boost than the other aftermarket ones throughout the rpm range while the GTSpec Gen III had the most boost. The stock headers, minus the exception of the gtspec gen3, usually had the most boost. So, if anything, the aftermarket headers on the stage 2 car, minus the GTSpec gen3 and fujitsubo, had less boost than the stockers.
I must be color blind, I see the OE manifolds with less boost than the headers.

Assuming I am correct, I would turn up the boost and probably get similar numbers to the headers.
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Old 06-27-2004, 10:40 AM   #657
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Quote:
Originally posted by Richard Sierra
I must be color blind, I see the OE manifolds with less boost than the headers.

Assuming I am correct, I would turn up the boost and probably get similar numbers to the headers.
At least in the stage2 boost graph, the lowest line, the one that starts the lowest and ends the lowest, is the GTSpec GenII. The OE is the one that starts at around 6psi and peaks at 16 and stays with the other headers. I matched the colors of both in paint, I'm almost 100% positive on this.
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Old 06-27-2004, 10:53 AM   #658
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It looks like the Fujitsubo is #1 in boost efficiency.

Jay
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Old 06-27-2004, 02:36 PM   #659
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what happened to the stone mountain header?and the P+P stocke manifold?
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Old 06-27-2004, 10:20 PM   #660
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Quote:
Originally posted by 0260B4U
what happened to the stone mountain header?and the P+P stocke manifold?
It's hard to test what you don't have.

Larry
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Old 06-28-2004, 04:55 PM   #661
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Quote:
Originally posted by Richard Sierra
I must be color blind, I see the OE manifolds with less boost than the headers.

Assuming I am correct, I would turn up the boost and probably get similar numbers to the headers.

I've been saying that for a long time. The difference in boost (which changes for EACH header), IMO, invalidates any conclusion one would make of this comparo.
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Old 06-28-2004, 07:42 PM   #662
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Boy, I bet that was an immense amount of work. Good job.

I'm glad I finally got off my arse and installed the Cusco......it rocks.
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Old 06-28-2004, 09:21 PM   #663
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Quote:
Originally posted by TypeC
I've been saying that for a long time. The difference in boost (which changes for EACH header), IMO, invalidates any conclusion one would make of this comparo.
On stage two, the boost for most of the headers stays within half a psi - with the stocker on the high side of the group. At high rpm, that is the GT Spec gen II dropping off of the boost - the stock boost stays on the high side for the whole range. With that in mind, the aftermarket headers made ~10lbft more torque across the whole powerband. More torque, less boost. We can always turn up the boost, so why wouldn't headers be a good thing?

Tom
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:14 AM   #664
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I think it pretty much comes down to how big your turbo is. If your running a 20g or a green, you might wana stick with your stock iron headers. But smaller turbos benefit from more airflow up top. Its just that on a larger turbo you need it to boost faster @ lower rpm and the small amount of top end gained is insignificant.

I would buy headers for my td04. But I plan on upgrading someday. So I'll just p&p my stockers myself much more fun then emptying your wallet again anyway
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Old 06-29-2004, 01:39 PM   #665
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlideWRX
On stage two, the boost for most of the headers stays within half a psi - with the stocker on the high side of the group. At high rpm, that is the GT Spec gen II dropping off of the boost - the stock boost stays on the high side for the whole range. With that in mind, the aftermarket headers made ~10lbft more torque across the whole powerband. More torque, less boost. We can always turn up the boost, so why wouldn't headers be a good thing?

Tom

Well there are costs that come with that extra torque....
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Old 06-30-2004, 07:10 AM   #666
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Spool has little to do with drag racing. It has a lot more to do with streetability than anything else. At the track, you spend all your time @ 4000 rpms and higher. So if you're getting more power at the top with a aftermarket header, then it's a worthwhile mod, no matter how big the turbo is.

Jay
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Old 07-29-2004, 09:32 PM   #667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber
There is ZERO EVIDENCE of a Borla header Gen 2 WRX user experiencing a failure.

Please post a link or an apology. This thread ISN'T about RS headers. Borla has had problems with RS headers, yes. With WRX headers, no!
So I was looking over this thread trying to find how to spell FUJITSUBO...

*cough*

Quote:
Originally Posted by subywannabe
my friend had the same problem with Borla Headers also. His cracked in less then a year after he installed them, and they weren't second hand.
*cough*

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Old 07-29-2004, 10:10 PM   #668
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totoherbs,

Why always the hate? When I made my statement it was 100% correct. So friggen what.......a busted header. I busted my Vishnu IC hose too, but you don't see me waving a Vishnu Sucks banner. Those boys with their busted headers are going to get brand new ones. The folks at Vishnu told me to, "Suck it, Trebeck". Stuff breaks, life goes on. Get a header, don't get a header. It really doesn't matter to me.
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Old 07-29-2004, 10:16 PM   #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber
totoherbs,

Why always the hate? When I made my statement it was 100% correct. So friggen what.......a busted header. I busted my Vishnu IC hose too, but you don't see me waving a Vishnu Sucks banner. Those boys with their busted headers are going to get brand new ones. The folks at Vishnu told me to, "Suck it, Trebeck". Stuff breaks, life goes on. Get a header, don't get a header. It really doesn't matter to me.
No hate dude. This isnt personal and if you think somewhere I made it so I am sorry. Its that no one belived that I saw more then once a borked borla headers all that mattered was I didnt have pics right then and there. It was like I was making this **** up as I go. I just wanted to point out that I do not. Btw he got the suck it from borla too, he picked them up used.

Last edited by totoherbs; 07-29-2004 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 07-30-2004, 07:50 AM   #670
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I'll be the first to admit when I saw those pics in the original thread, I thought, "Oh man, toto is going to have a field day with this one". Myself being a realist, I understand that one day my headers may crack. The same holds true for my turbo going south, my exhaust breaking etc.

I will give one warning to future header owners though.....be the original owner. There have been two Borla owners here that have had problems. Both were out of luck as they weren't the original owner and had no warranty through Borla. This is an industry standard with all products, but I am of the opinion that it is more applicable with headers than anything else. So unless you get an insane deal, I would recommend new headers along with checking with the manufacturer to see if wrapping/coating, which is "required" or at least highly desirable, will void their warranty.

And I didn't mean to sound so personal totoherbs, sometimes typing sounds more stern than it is meant to be. I rather enjoy our little point/counter point on headers. It keeps us both on a more even keel with our advice.
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Old 07-30-2004, 03:18 PM   #671
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Just as an fyi on the warranty issue, I contacted RallyPerformance regarding the 25 year warranty on my scoobysport downpipe that I bought second hand from Austin and they offered to transfer the warranty to me. Probably not a Hayward and Scott policy, most likely Ken just looking out for me. I was surprised. Sorry for the OT, carry on.
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Old 07-30-2004, 08:28 PM   #672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supermarkus
Just as an fyi on the warranty issue, I contacted RallyPerformance regarding the 25 year warranty on my scoobysport downpipe that I bought second hand from Austin and they offered to transfer the warranty to me. Probably not a Hayward and Scott policy, most likely Ken just looking out for me. I was surprised. Sorry for the OT, carry on.
Ya, theres a hand full of companys that cool.... sad that 90% wont even offer a warranty or even bother to pick up the phone if you call. The list I have on good vs ****ty companys is far too lop sided.
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Old 07-30-2004, 10:02 PM   #673
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Actually in speaking with SS NA the H&S warranty is on the part not the owner... as it should be irrespective of the common practices of most manufacturers.
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Old 08-02-2004, 06:30 PM   #674
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It looks like the right time in this thread to inject what I have to say...

My Gp-moto headers are leaking like a SOB at the point where the pipes come together infront of the oil-pan, and so far I havnt gotten any response from gp-moto at all. A vendor was supposedly helping me but i've yet to see any results. Im still in the dark here, several months later. Not to mention, one of the brace brackets broke off the headers too, so they are flawed in more ways than one.

If you buy gp-moto, pretty much forget about the warranty and pray they dont crap all over you after a few months.

Jeff
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Old 08-23-2004, 08:09 AM   #675
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I'm just going to share some random thoughts here that I've had after reading this entire longassed thread for the first time. (lol):

Firstly, I know it's been mentioned, bu why is it those graphs don't cross at 5252? If the torque is on a different axis, why doesn't it look like that axis has been labeled? I must have just missed something oh well.

Secondly, almost all those headers are long, twisty, and have lots of welds/connections which cause turbulence. Far from ideal.

Thirdly, the main benefit of a header setup is to reduce the number of sharp right angle bends in a cast manifold. Since the stock WRX doesn't really have any sharper bends than the headers the difference won't be as noticable. Just slightly more efficient and exahust scavenging (hence the lower EGT). Because the exhaust pulses are evenly spaced there may be some increase in efficiency. This won't be noticable with the stock turbo.

Fourthly, the increase in boost pressure is due to the more efficient exhaust velocity preservation. With headers the exhaust pulses just go right past the wastegate. Some of the power comes from that.

Fifthly, because of the increased pressure in a turbo header (and subsequent increase in the speed of sound) the ideal pulse tuning length is much much longer. So normal header lengths will be tuned for VERY high RPM compared with the same length on a naturally aspirated manifold. Either that or they will be in tune with the second or third scavenging wave.

Also as a side note. Please do not port match the ehxuast port to the size of the header/manifold. The lip at the edge is used to prevent exhaust gas reversion. It's there for a reason. Some manifolds actually had anti-reversion lips build into them, but the OEM found that by simply using a slightly larger header than the port size they could recreate the same effect.

Hope I didn't bother anyone. Just thinking out loud at the moment and kind of tired. Got a bitchin' headache that even Vicoden hasn't done much for. Ouchies. Migraines suck.

I think the way the headers have to be routed on a Subaru is the real cause for their lackluster performance. Given how well headers perform on nearly every other car I've ever seen.

Twin scroll would have blown away all the headers in this competition in spool up, top end, and unfortunately in cost. You know the saying ... you get whatcha pay for.

Adrian~
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