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Old 12-01-2003, 01:18 AM   #1
ksubaru826
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Question best exhaust for a 2.5?

I want to get a full exhaust system for my 2004 RS. I want from the headers down to the muffler and was wondering who has the best for overall performance
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Old 12-01-2003, 02:44 AM   #2
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Do you mean the whole exhaust or catback or what? headers down to muffler is somewhat vague....
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Old 12-01-2003, 02:55 AM   #3
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Old 12-01-2003, 03:26 AM   #4
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I've heard good things about the Brullen headerback. Dynoed at 21hp gains over stock.
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Old 12-01-2003, 08:39 AM   #5
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Well I have a Borla header, Apexi N1 mid pipe, and a Blitz Nur spec axle back. It's definatly the meanes sounding set up (besides not having a cat). The header just makes the car rumble like crazy. There were slight performance gains from the header. I can noticibly pull from my friends 99' Rs who has pretty much the same exact set up and we've tested under many different situations. I'm sure other header company's might give you better gains but it dosn't sound as good as borla and I only had $300 to spend at the time so it's a great buy.
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Old 12-01-2003, 09:16 AM   #6
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Depending how much $$$ you have access to will always determine how fast ur car is.

On that note, Headers:
-Brullen header back setup is rare, expensive and well designed for high gains.

Borla headers with Random tech Cat, and any ~2.25in exhaust will give you very decent gains and a killer sound at a good price.

And if you have enough $$$ and time, learn and design your own headers for your own application.

my setup is Borla with OMP Gr.N cat-back.

Q
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Old 12-01-2003, 04:50 PM   #7
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for max performance, there are a number of catbacks, cobb, brullen, etc, most will give you about the same gains, just pick one that has the sound you prefer

for headers/cat, equal length is the only way to go for performance, brullen makes a nice setup, cobb's are on the way and should perform as well as any, twe also makes a nice set, and is the only equal length that terminates at the stock location so it will allow for a turbo kit should you decide to go that route, and mrt is the budget setup, comes as a headerback, with a crappy muffler, opt to take it out of the package to save some cash, and get a better muffler that won't rust out and give you a few extra ponies. all but the twe and borla's come as a header/cat 1 piece
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Old 12-01-2003, 06:19 PM   #8
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Hey I have a 00 impreza 2.5 rs and have HKS super dragger catback exhaust at the moment. It sounds wicked at the moment but I was wondering because each header setup works differently with each catback setup...Which would be the best for my current setup? Ive heard that borla makes the best sounding from numerous impreza owners, but as previous posts noted, it does not give as much power gain. I was wondering how much hp and torque (if anyone has any idea) difference is there between the borla and other competetors, thanks! -RJ
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Old 12-01-2003, 06:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by stylin2.5rs
Hey I have a 00 impreza 2.5 rs and have HKS super dragger catback exhaust at the moment. It sounds wicked at the moment but I was wondering because each header setup works differently with each catback setup...Which would be the best for my current setup? Ive heard that borla makes the best sounding from numerous impreza owners, but as previous posts noted, it does not give as much power gain. I was wondering how much hp and torque (if anyone has any idea) difference is there between the borla and other competetors, thanks! -RJ
I'm sure the borla's don't give you as much power as eaqual lengths or as much as some of the other ones, but it gives you a little bit of gains. Not sure of the numbers because I havn't seen a dyno on it.
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Old 12-01-2003, 06:59 PM   #10
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I personally am looking for the best possible performance even if i have to sacrafice some sound. i have an 800 dollar budget at the moment and was also wondering if i should save more and get something better over the winter
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Old 12-01-2003, 07:25 PM   #11
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save more and get the Cobb. By the time you have the money they will have released their headers and you will be able to see their dyno numbers to prove their performance. Or, if you are unsure about the future of your car and might go turbo get the TWE because they end in the stock location...

Or, get a cat back now and save for the headers... Toys are good to have on your car around X-mas...
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Old 12-01-2003, 07:31 PM   #12
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Don't hold your breath for the cobb header. He probably won't be releasing them for a long time, along with the cold air 99' maf intake, and the 2.5 ecu reflash.
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Old 12-01-2003, 08:27 PM   #13
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in order to choose the best header for my 2.5, I studied the way optimal header should be built following some theories and mathematical formulas. I can't say i'm a specialist, but that what I retain different headers observations: stock header have a problem of flow, as well as a problem of synchronism. it is restrictive, and not tuned in anyway. so improvement is easy. this is why;
borla headers give some gain. they get rid of the flow problem lenght of the individual pipes and lenght of the primary merge to the final merge suggest that their lenght are not so tuned. their promote boxer sound in the same way the stock collector do: because of the lenght's difference between primary and final merging point.

TWE did a incredible job of builing 4-1 equal lenght headers that have same flanging point than stock. however, they have to be on the long side, longer than optimal, compensating by a bigger piping. this would tend to flatten the torque curve, decreasing peak torque, but flowing better over the peak horsepower rpm.

By removing the stock flange location constraint, Cobb tuning had the possibility to built their new equal lenght 4-1 header the way they wanted. I like this idea. they would be my choice if I had to choose without seeying dyno graph

it's all about compromise. equal lenght is the key, but not only piping need to be equal, they need to be the optimal lenght, and the optimal diameter. bigger is not better, nor smaller. longuer is not better, nor shorter .I did not find a picture of the Brullen headers, but I would like to, since someone mentionned they were well designed.
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Old 12-01-2003, 08:37 PM   #14
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NicEJ25 - the iON/Brullen header system is modelled after the SYMS JTCC header. The main difference is the presence of a 2.5" hi-flow cat.
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Old 12-01-2003, 11:10 PM   #15
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I have a borla header, random tech cat, and a 2.5" HKS sport exhaust and it sounds simply awesome. I'd say just go with borlas due to the fact that they are cheap, sound excellent, and have a forever guarantee.
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Old 12-02-2003, 12:00 AM   #16
Matt Monson
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Quote:
Originally posted by Supraru
Don't hold your breath for the cobb header. He probably won't be releasing them for a long time, along with the cold air 99' maf intake, and the 2.5 ecu reflash.

Hmmm, that's why my header should be shipping in about a week or so when the first batch comes in from the manufacturer? At least that was what I was told last week when I checked on the status of my head build...

And don't be surprised if there is a MAF intake by Christmas. But as for the ECU, who knows...Regardless, all the Cobb hateraid around here gets old. But when someone take the time to do it right, it takes time. How many generations did it take Borla until their headers stopped cracking???
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Old 12-02-2003, 12:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by GTBGUY
NicEJ25 - the iON/Brullen header system is modelled after the SYMS JTCC header. The main difference is the presence of a 2.5" hi-flow cat.

thank you for the Info. i've found picture. it's a 4-2-1 headers. as the MRT. those get rid of the flow problem, just as the borla do, but their individual pipe are longer, they seem to be near to the optimal lenght, so they promote scavenging, but not as much as the 4-1 headers. they can't gain as much peak torque as the 4-1 can.
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Old 12-02-2003, 01:44 PM   #18
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Any last minute advise for a guy whose doing his exhaust swap tonite on a '98 Legacy 2.5 GT Wagon? I'm pretty handy, but new to exhausts.

-Borla SS headers (with new Subaru gaskets at heads)
-bolting up to a Stromung SS Hi-flow cat (I was told to re-use the factory "donut gasket")
-bolting upto a Stromung SS hi-flow mid-pipe with resonator (new supplied gaskets on both ends)
-finally exiting through an SPO/Borla rear muffler section
-KartBoy hangers

Questions:
-Does there need to be any sealer type stuff on the (2) O2 sensors?
-Any additional sealer on the supplied gaskets, or just bolt up thru them ?
Is it OK to re-use the factory "donut gasket", cars got under 70k miles ?

Thanks
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Old 12-02-2003, 01:53 PM   #19
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since this is the new exhaust thread question on droning. i have a stromung catback exhaust that drones in the rear; will less restrictive headers (borla) help solve that?

also to install new headers all i need is new gaskets at the heads?
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Old 12-02-2003, 02:49 PM   #20
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NicEJ25 - our N/A header set-up is designed to maximize torque across the power band. Thus even though peak torque isn't as high as a 4-1 set-up, the overall area under the torque curve is more, thus providing more force for acceleration in any gear at any engine speed.
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Old 12-02-2003, 04:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Monson
Hmmm, that's why my header should be shipping in about a week or so when the first batch comes in from the manufacturer? At least that was what I was told last week when I checked on the status of my head build...

And don't be surprised if there is a MAF intake by Christmas. But as for the ECU, who knows...Regardless, all the Cobb hateraid around here gets old. But when someone take the time to do it right, it takes time. How many generations did it take Borla until their headers stopped cracking???
That is what you were told, you don't even have it yet so as far as we know it could still be a while till they come out. They did that when my friend was going to purchase the my99 cobb cold air intake. They just kept on saying it's almost done and we'll get back to you. They never did. Now an exact year later they are almost done. Do you see why I'm so sceptical?


The header I just got the gen 4 header. I've had it on my car for about 4 months now and I check it all the time and it's fine for now. Yes they messed up the first 3 and some of the 4th gen headers but they do have a lifetime warrenty so it dosn't really matter.

Yes, for anything to be done properly it takes time... but don't tell customers that it's gonna come out verry soon and still not have it done a year later. Telling lies isn't good buisness. Now if they said well it's not going to be done for a long time then that's ok. I don't know about you but I don't like to be lied strait to my face. I'm understand why you may thing that this "hatred of cobb" is old but they brought it on themselfs so I wouldn't back up a non customer friendly buisness. Yes if they are verry helpful if you have questions and if you are buying stuff, but in that aspect they are severly slacking.
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Old 12-02-2003, 05:34 PM   #22
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according to this the cobb header is in production. Is this news, or am I just seeing something that has been up for a long time but isn't accurate?
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Old 12-02-2003, 05:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by nunyo
according to this the cobb header is in production. Is this news, or am I just seeing something that has been up for a long time but isn't accurate?
Everything is "always in production". Nothing means anything until they actually start selling them and people are getting them.
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Old 12-03-2003, 02:16 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Supraru
Everything is "always in production". Nothing means anything until they actually start selling them and people are getting them.
I understand the "COBB delivery" dilemma. But as to the new header debate, if they don't ship in the next couple of weeks as Matt mentioned there will be a few pissed people.

Namely those of us that did the preorder. This is a bit different than "it's in development".

As to the original post, I have run the COBB catback for about a year and really like it.
I did a few mods at once so the Butt Dyno is biased.
Now I want to see what it is like with the full system.

Personally, I would recommend an equal length header, but the actual manufacturer is sorta up to you. Maybe wait a bit to see how the COBB unit turns out on the dyno.
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Old 12-03-2003, 02:51 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Supraru
Everything is "always in production". Nothing means anything until they actually start selling them and people are getting them.
Cobb currently offers more RS/TS parts than any other vendor and most of them are either leading in their category or tied with brands such as TWE. I cant wait for the flow charts of the new headers to see how they match up...im guessing they are at least equal if not better by a small margin. As noted before, they have a different collector and have the advantage of being produced after the TWE was already out (new product vs tried and true).

Maybe you should ask Cobb to redirect resources into more RS/TS research and developement...im sure the majority of their revenue comes from us guys . In my opinion, every quality product they throw our way (including the Reflash in R&D that nobody can provide) is a bone to an old dog, they make enough to break even or slightly make a profit over a long time but do it mostly for loyalty sake. You know how many AccessECU's they probably do a year for WRX's at 400 a reflash?!?

For all the complaining you do, we dont hear many suggestions. What praytell do you assume is better than Cobb's long awaited products?

Im sensing a bitter Borla shopper.


EDIT: Whoa! I was right on the Borla comment.
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