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Old 09-04-2000, 05:23 AM   #1
Siper2
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Thumbs up OT: The new Volkswagen Passat!

I don't know about you guys, but I've always been a fan of the "B5" Passat. Meaning the 1997-up version. (I think it was '97 when it got the latest bodystyle...)

I almost bought one. That is, until I saw the pricetag on the model I wanted. Then VW announced that quattro from Audi cars would be put on the Passat. Only it was called 4Motion on the VWs. Then the Passat got the V6 engine from the Audi 2.8, versus the old VR6. I test drove one. I fell in love.

I didn't have that kind of money.

I still don't. I still loved the car, though. But now, to torture me even further, VW has released the NEW version!



Here is the full page of photos from www.vwvortex.com that I just found a minute ago: http://www.vwvortex.com/resources/ga...sat/index.html

I don't know how long this car has been out (though since it's a MY 2001.5, probably not long), I don't know if anyone else has posted a picture. Doesn't matter. I think I'm in love.

Makes a guy wish that silly dreams like my company's IPO would actually come true...!

-S2-
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Old 09-04-2000, 05:40 AM   #2
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You're gonna be even more pissed once the 4.2 V8 finds it's way into there. Seriously!
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Old 09-04-2000, 05:47 AM   #3
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Yeah I know!!!

-S2-
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Old 09-04-2000, 06:38 AM   #4
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It's a cheap way into an Audi A6 (though not as cheap as it used to be). The Passat shares its chassis with the A6.

Thing is, even the Audi A6 isn't the pinnacle of a driver's car (beaten even by the Merc E-class). So your average Subaru driver will have to do a bit of adjusting I think.

I have driven a 110 bhp 1.9 TDi Passat, if that's a help, and a 125 bhp 1.8 (note: not the turbo). Smooth, quiet, and an unrelentingly grey interior. Fab as a family car, though, and a better buy than a BMW. I imagine the same to be largely the case in the US.

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Old 09-04-2000, 07:04 AM   #5
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Yeah I know about the shared platforms. And the eight-cylinder I assume is the same engine from the A6 4.2.

Very nice car...


-S2-
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Old 09-04-2000, 08:01 AM   #6
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Actually the 4Motion system is not the same as Quattro, VW called that system Syncro, but they use a much newer system on the VWs, its not a sporty as Quattro, but safer, it runs as a FWD most of the time.

This is why it is olny available with an Automatic.

And the Passat, A4 and A6 are the same platform, A4 smallest, A6 biggest, passat is in the middle, closer to A6.

The new engine will be a W8, which will have 3 banks of cylinders, 3-2-3.

Ed
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Old 09-04-2000, 08:24 AM   #7
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Actually I believe the only VW that doesn't share a frame are the Eurovan (obviously), Cabrio and Audi A8. The rest are on the "A4" platform. Golf, GTI, Audi A4, Passat, Jetta (Bora), Audi A6.

So that's why no standard transmission, huh?
Well bummer, that shoots down my plans...
(Unless I get funky and buy an S4 or A6 2.7T....!)

-S2-
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Old 09-04-2000, 08:35 AM   #8
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Well the Golf/Jetta/A3/TT use the A4 platform, and many other models, not sold here.

The A4/A6/Passat use the B5 platform.

The cabrio uses the same platform as the Polo, which is very similiar to the Mark 2 Golf, the first one we saw after the Rabbit. But is the same at Mk 4 in front of the A pillar. VW AG uses this chassis to make some wild cars in Europe.

Ed
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Old 09-04-2000, 08:48 AM   #9
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4motion is only part time AWD. how is that safer?
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Old 09-04-2000, 09:06 AM   #10
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The reaction time is less than 1/10 of a wheel rotation.

Thats fast.

Ed
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Old 09-04-2000, 09:44 AM   #11
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what does that have to do, specifically, with FWD being safer than AWD? as opposed to the different level of tuning between the Driver's market targeted A4 and the soccer mom geared Passat.
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Old 09-04-2000, 10:20 AM   #12
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The safe and FWD comments are not meant to be read together, sorry, my bad syntax. Its safer because its reaction time is faster.

It runs close to 90% front under normat conditions. Quattro runs closer 70% and more readily shifts that around. Making it more aggresive.

Ed
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Old 09-04-2000, 03:39 PM   #13
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That is a weird config for an eight-cylinder, ain't it? Odd, indeed.

And I agree--what's up with black interiors?
They're nice, but variety is nicer. See that's why I got the aftermarket leather in mine:



It's very nice. Didn't get too hot in the summer, either! It's a Katzkin set.

-S2-
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Old 09-04-2000, 07:01 PM   #14
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The 4WD Passat 4Motion is available with a manual 'box - I can point you to any number of websites that contain technical specs if you fancy a browse.

The names "Syncro", "4Motion" and "quattro" are mere marketing terms these days. The term "Syncro" has been around for years (since the early '80s Golf Mk 2 4WDs, if not earlier). It is nothing to do with Audi's "quattro" system of the early '80s, appearing in the eponymous road version of the rally car. "4Motion" is a newer moniker, appearing on recent Golfs, Jettas/Boras and sop on, and from now on "4Motion" is to be VW's badging for a four-wheel-drive vehicle, regardless of the technical system that is used. I guess this means that "Syncro" - previously used on the Passat to indicate 4WD - will die out. The platform-sharing nightmare has got to the stage where it is no longer possible to classify something technically based on the badge at the back (consider the "A4" Golf platform - used by the Golf, Jetta/Bora, Octavia, Leon, Toledo, TT...)

For a rating of the Passat 4Motion nee Syncro, read any one of the on-line European magazines (hint: with a 3,500 lb curb weight and a big iron block stretching out over the front wheels, they are not great driver's cars. You VW/Audi fans should find them right up your street ).

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Old 09-04-2000, 08:46 PM   #15
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It is interesting that you brought up how many VW's & Audi's share platforms...

I recently read an article online that stated that VW leads the automotive world in shared platforms.

VW (and it's daughter companies) make 30 different vehicles off of a total of just 4 platforms!
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Old 09-05-2000, 12:19 AM   #16
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Damn! Why don't Japanese car makers make tan interiors anymore? It's always been my favourite. Instead all we get is dull and boring gray and black. Hard to keep it clean too.

jeff
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Old 09-05-2000, 12:36 AM   #17
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Sweet pic! another reason why a $32K Legacy won't fly....

What's up w/ the W configuration on the 8?
Is that a first? Wonder if its hell to balance-out NVH?

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Old 09-05-2000, 12:51 AM   #18
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I must have entered the VW forum by mistake!
I'll take the Legacy over the Passat anyday and if they put the new H-6 in the GT form it will be even more entartaining.
the Passat has soooooo much body roll and it isn't the most relaible car either just check the U.K J.D.Power (for reliabilty!!!!) and the ADAC (the german drivers AAA).
I even like the new H-6 OB's interior better with the tan (anyone mentioned it) leather, Auto climate and Macintosh sound system.
and the real dream is the ultimate RSK or Blitsen.
Now to straighten things, Jetta, Golf, Beetle,A3 and TT use the same platform the A4 dosen't use these platform, the Passat and A6 use the same platform,
Qauttro- used in the A4, A6 and Passat marketed under 4Motion.
4Motion- Jetta/Bora, golf, A3 and TT under Qauttro.
and pleasenext time VW on the VW forum.
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Old 09-05-2000, 08:21 AM   #19
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No, I put the VW post here for a reason. If I wanted to go to the VW forum, I'd go to the VW forum.

It does have a lot of body roll but it's a VERY nice car, extremely high-quality materials and it is a lot of fun. I'm sure a decent suspension would improve it 200%.

As for the 4Motion being available with a stick... maybe elsewhere, but not Stateside.
And considering the US' marketing strategies, we'll never get it, either.

-S2-
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Old 09-05-2000, 09:05 AM   #20
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I agree with IsraelGT. It's just an overpriced VW, there's nothing special about it. I would take a Legacy or Maxima over that ugly thing anytime.
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Old 09-05-2000, 09:53 AM   #21
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"Syncro" is actually a part of a gearbox that fits with the hub on a manual tranny. Justa fun fact
I used to work for VW and I can assure you that while VW is definitely trying to edge its way into the luxry market, they are not what they used to be - a lot of the older GTI's you could drive the wheels off of and the newer ones used to come to me as a service advisor for everything from trannies to window switches.
The Audi and VW cars are virtually identical as was mentioned w/ the A6 and Passat and I love to drive them but would never own one b/c of all the trouble I had w/ them as a service writer.
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Old 09-05-2000, 10:52 AM   #22
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err. according to the Vw official site, on the flash demonstrations of 4motion , 4motion IS full time, and under straight acceleration it gives the power to the rear wheels, maybe when cruising at the top gears at a relaxed pace it does run as a fwd, but it clearly shows that when accelerating on a straight the power is clearly transfered to the rear wheels..
 
Old 09-05-2000, 01:07 PM   #23
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Dave,

That's what I've been saying, just that the Passat is a very nice car! I've test driven a few. One was the '98 4-cylinder, which I thought was fairly peppy and very comfortable. Then another, I forget which... and finally, a V6. Holy cow was that a nice engine! I know the Passats are pricey, which is why I didn't go for one. But I really do love them.

The looks were never bad, just sort of dull, particularly the front end. Even a mild aftermarket grille would have been enough to make the Passat a decent looker. The real downer for me is the inability to get the engine I want with a stick shift, here in the States. (That and even if I could, VW's shifters are some of the worst I've ever felt. Very long and sloppy. Somehow Audi manages to improve them quite a bit for that division!)

-S2-
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Old 09-05-2000, 02:26 PM   #24
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Okay, here's the deal w/ VW's AWD badging system.
If its an Audi, its badged Quattro and if its a VW, its badged 4Motion. Those are just marketing terms, both divisions use two different AWD systems depending on the application.
The A4 platform cars (A=compact platform, 4=fourth generation) are the Golf/GTI, the Jetta, the New Beetle and the Audi TT (I'm talking NA market only, so I'm not bothering w/ Seats and Skodas). The AWD versions of these cars, the 4Motion Golfs and Jettas (not here yet) and the TT Quattro use the Haldex system. Its used on these cars for its compact nature and because it works with a transversely mounted engine. I'm not sure of the standard torque split of this engine, but I don't think its 50/50.
By the way, the Cabrio is built on the older A3 platform.
The B5 platform cars (B=midsize platform, 5= fifth generation) are the VW Passat, Audi A4 and Audi A6. As these cars all of longitudinally mounted engines, they use the torsen AWD system. This, I believe, is a 50/50 split. On the Passat its called 4Motion and on the Audis its Quattro. The Audi A8 also uses the Torsen system but it isn't on the B5 platform.
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Old 09-05-2000, 04:53 PM   #25
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Lackey - great summary. A shame that more markets don't get the Seats in particular - they're kind of like where VWs used to be, tough, simple trim options and not too much weight, just enough to feel well-constructed and durable. The Seat Toledo has been compared to the old BMW E30 3er, in that it is tuned for fun from the factory, and spurns sat-nav, wood trim, spurious electrical goodies and a high list price.

Also there's a 140 mph, 0-60-in-7.5, 180 bhp Skoda coming out with the TT's engine very soon. Kinda funny

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