What parts are needed to turbo a MAP sensored RS?

Homemade WRX · 12-04-2003, 06:47 PM

Hi, I was wondering what parts are needed to turbo a 00+ RS(other than the turbo kit and all that)...I mean the sutff for engine management...a voltage clamp?

..other stuff like that.
Thanks, Micah

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cRayZee · 12-04-2003, 06:59 PM

voltage clamp + rrfpr

OR

standalone with minimum 2Bar map sensor + larger injectors.

lotusTT · 12-04-2003, 07:07 PM

yeah you need a voltage clamp of some type. Either a seperate unit like the SplitSec (I have one for sale if you're interested) or some kind of engine management with a clamp built in like e-Manage, J&S version 2, or a full standalone. If you don't go with the RRFPR you will need bigger injectors which are tough to find. There's lots of debate on what fits and what doesn't.

Homemade WRX · 12-04-2003, 07:24 PM

how much is a voltage clamp and where can I buy one?
Take it easy, Micah

lotusTT · 12-04-2003, 07:30 PM

PM'd you

cRayZee · 12-04-2003, 07:30 PM

the simplest way to get a voltage clamp is to get a zener diode. Do a search for zener diode in this forum and it should provide you with more info about that and other kinds of voltage clamps

Homemade WRX · 12-04-2003, 10:14 PM

lotus tt I read the message and am forwarding it to my friend

dunk · 12-04-2003, 10:19 PM

You can also buy a J&S safeguard, and use the adjustable voltage clamp built into their new units. Is this for a local project?

Duncan

dunk · 12-04-2003, 10:19 PM

You can also buy a J&S safeguard, and use the adjustable voltage clamp built into their new units. Is this for a local project?

Duncan

Homemade WRX · 12-04-2003, 10:44 PM

possibly local...well you now know the story

ImprezaRS dot com · 12-08-2003, 03:43 AM

DO NOT use a zener diode. There is no excuse for using a $1-5 solution on an expensive RST motor!

I did extensive testing on my own 2000 RST, with ProECM's help, on voltage clamps. The zener diodes always caused the fuel to lean out as the clamp setting changed over time during an extended episode of boosting.

i.e. with zener diode, when kept under boost for several seconds from 3000rpm till redline, or in 5th gear in a run from 50 to 100mph, by the time the run was over the OBD2 was reporting the clamp had changed from being at 34inhg to 27inhg. Since the ECU was seeing less MAP pressure it was not giving enough fuel. EGT's went over 1550F in 5th gear at 4 psi vs 1400 with a proper stable voltage clamp. Imagine how high they might have gotten if the boost was held until 120-140mph! With the proper clamp, EGT never went over 1475 by redline in 5th at 4-5 psi! With the Zener we had to keep aborting the run by 100mph.

Get a Split Second, ProECM or TorqueChip voltage clamp - if adjustable (the first two above), set it so that the ECU sees close to 32-34inhg (over that will give CEL for high ABs manifold pressure). When the ECU sees the positive manifold pressure, as well as the hotter intake air temps, it will appropriately retard the ignition timing 4-10 degrees from what the chips will give on an NA car. We saw 10 degrees less timing at 5 psi and 3000 rpm (16 vs 26), and 6 degrees less timing at redline (28 vs 34) between NA and boosted.

The RRFPR with 75-80 psi of fuel pressure, and the ProECM or Torquechip should be enough fuel for 240-250+ flywheel HP on a MY00+ RST (about 175whp) - then you hit the limits of the stock injectors, which at 5-6 psi is the limits of the stock ECU ignition timing and pistons anyways.

Anything over 5 psi and you really should be thinking of the J&S or the new ProECM timing retard box anyways, especially in the MY00+ which have pistons that like to break at the valve relief with small amounts of detonation. Small variation in gas quality at the edge of high timing advance can be disasterous.

Anything over 6 psi and you will need either (1) bigger injectors (not more than 25-30% bigger than stock I am told with a MY00+ ECU or the closed loop is f u b a r - and you get CEL for being too rich cruising, or the idle suffers) or (2) extra injectors like this http://www.subaruplanet.com/sdsefi.htm

Been there, done it all, blown most of them up...

Homemade WRX · 12-08-2003, 10:26 AM

thanks for the warning!!!

insanesuby · 12-08-2003, 03:49 PM

Got a split second for sale. Pm me if you are interested!

Homemade WRX · 12-08-2003, 05:59 PM

um...I'm not the one looking to buy...my friend was wondering because he has an 01 but not anymore...it was just declared totalled...thanks anyway.
Take it easy, Micah

ImprezaRS dot com · 12-08-2003, 09:05 PM

Was that OCimportracer who rolled it 5 times? He told me about it last night...

ImprezaRS dot com · 12-08-2003, 09:08 PM

PS: The torquechip clamp is already at 32inhg, and can be special ordered as an adjustable clamp at no extra charge.

Homemade WRX · 12-08-2003, 09:23 PM

um no he didn't roll his car...that was someone else

and as far as the Torquechip goes.....that's pretty cool...I didn't know that.

John at J&S · 12-09-2003, 09:10 AM

Our adjustable clamp in action. Scope photo shows input/output:

It takes more than a zener. Photo of our old standalone voltage clamp, now built into the SafeGuard:

Homemade WRX · 12-09-2003, 10:04 AM

yeah I know that the newer safegaurds had them built in...very cool.
Take it easy, Micah

ImprezaRS dot com · 12-10-2003, 12:21 AM

Wow, that makes the J&S the cats meow now - didn't know about the clamp in it.

12-04-2003, 06:47 PM	#1
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 bastard child search FIRST, then PM!!!	What parts are needed to turbo a MAP sensored RS? Hi, I was wondering what parts are needed to turbo a 00+ RS(other than the turbo kit and all that)...I mean the sutff for engine management...a voltage clamp? ..other stuff like that. Thanks, Micah * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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12-04-2003, 06:59 PM	#2
cRayZee Scooby Specialist Member#: 6271 Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Diego Vehicle: 2001 2.5RSTi 2007 Legacy Spec B	voltage clamp + rrfpr OR standalone with minimum 2Bar map sensor + larger injectors.

12-04-2003, 07:07 PM	#3
lotusTT Scooby Specialist Member#: 23359 Join Date: Aug 2002 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: San Francisco Vehicle: 2002 BMW M Coupe Steel Gray	yeah you need a voltage clamp of some type. Either a seperate unit like the SplitSec (I have one for sale if you're interested) or some kind of engine management with a clamp built in like e-Manage, J&S version 2, or a full standalone. If you don't go with the RRFPR you will need bigger injectors which are tough to find. There's lots of debate on what fits and what doesn't.

12-04-2003, 07:24 PM	#4
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 bastard child search FIRST, then PM!!!	how much is a voltage clamp and where can I buy one? Take it easy, Micah

12-04-2003, 07:30 PM	#5
lotusTT Scooby Specialist Member#: 23359 Join Date: Aug 2002 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: San Francisco Vehicle: 2002 BMW M Coupe Steel Gray	PM'd you

12-04-2003, 10:14 PM	#7
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 bastard child search FIRST, then PM!!!	lotus tt I read the message and am forwarding it to my friend

12-04-2003, 10:19 PM	#8
dunk Scooby Guru Member#: 15359 Join Date: Feb 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Monterey, CA	You can also buy a J&S safeguard, and use the adjustable voltage clamp built into their new units. Is this for a local project? Duncan

12-04-2003, 10:44 PM	#10
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 bastard child search FIRST, then PM!!!	possibly local...well you now know the story

12-08-2003, 03:43 AM	#11
ImprezaRS dot com over boosted again Moderator Member#: 1458 Join Date: May 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Colorado Springs CO USA Vehicle: 2006 B9 Tribeca LTD 2005 Impreza 2.5 RS	DO NOT use a zener diode. There is no excuse for using a $1-5 solution on an expensive RST motor! I did extensive testing on my own 2000 RST, with ProECM's help, on voltage clamps. The zener diodes always caused the fuel to lean out as the clamp setting changed over time during an extended episode of boosting. i.e. with zener diode, when kept under boost for several seconds from 3000rpm till redline, or in 5th gear in a run from 50 to 100mph, by the time the run was over the OBD2 was reporting the clamp had changed from being at 34inhg to 27inhg. Since the ECU was seeing less MAP pressure it was not giving enough fuel. EGT's went over 1550F in 5th gear at 4 psi vs 1400 with a proper stable voltage clamp. Imagine how high they might have gotten if the boost was held until 120-140mph! With the proper clamp, EGT never went over 1475 by redline in 5th at 4-5 psi! With the Zener we had to keep aborting the run by 100mph. Get a Split Second, ProECM or TorqueChip voltage clamp - if adjustable (the first two above), set it so that the ECU sees close to 32-34inhg (over that will give CEL for high ABs manifold pressure). When the ECU sees the positive manifold pressure, as well as the hotter intake air temps, it will appropriately retard the ignition timing 4-10 degrees from what the chips will give on an NA car. We saw 10 degrees less timing at 5 psi and 3000 rpm (16 vs 26), and 6 degrees less timing at redline (28 vs 34) between NA and boosted. The RRFPR with 75-80 psi of fuel pressure, and the ProECM or Torquechip should be enough fuel for 240-250+ flywheel HP on a MY00+ RST (about 175whp) - then you hit the limits of the stock injectors, which at 5-6 psi is the limits of the stock ECU ignition timing and pistons anyways. Anything over 5 psi and you really should be thinking of the J&S or the new ProECM timing retard box anyways, especially in the MY00+ which have pistons that like to break at the valve relief with small amounts of detonation. Small variation in gas quality at the edge of high timing advance can be disasterous. Anything over 6 psi and you will need either (1) bigger injectors (not more than 25-30% bigger than stock I am told with a MY00+ ECU or the closed loop is f u b a r - and you get CEL for being too rich cruising, or the idle suffers) or (2) extra injectors like this http://www.subaruplanet.com/sdsefi.htm Been there, done it all, blown most of them up...

12-08-2003, 10:26 AM	#12
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 bastard child search FIRST, then PM!!!	thanks for the warning!!!

12-08-2003, 03:49 PM	#13
insanesuby Scooby Newbie Member#: 23494 Join Date: Aug 2002 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Charlotte, NC Vehicle: 2013 WRX Black	Got a split second for sale. Pm me if you are interested!

12-08-2003, 05:59 PM	#14
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 bastard child search FIRST, then PM!!!	um...I'm not the one looking to buy...my friend was wondering because he has an 01 but not anymore...it was just declared totalled...thanks anyway. Take it easy, Micah

12-08-2003, 09:05 PM	#15
ImprezaRS dot com over boosted again Moderator Member#: 1458 Join Date: May 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Colorado Springs CO USA Vehicle: 2006 B9 Tribeca LTD 2005 Impreza 2.5 RS	Was that OCimportracer who rolled it 5 times? He told me about it last night...

12-08-2003, 09:08 PM	#16
ImprezaRS dot com over boosted again Moderator Member#: 1458 Join Date: May 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Colorado Springs CO USA Vehicle: 2006 B9 Tribeca LTD 2005 Impreza 2.5 RS	PS: The torquechip clamp is already at 32inhg, and can be special ordered as an adjustable clamp at no extra charge.

12-08-2003, 09:23 PM	#17
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 bastard child search FIRST, then PM!!!	um no he didn't roll his car...that was someone else and as far as the Torquechip goes.....that's pretty cool...I didn't know that.

12-09-2003, 09:10 AM	#18
John at J&S Scooby Newbie Member#: 2036 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Garden Grove, CA USA Vehicle: 2000 Intrepid silver	Our adjustable clamp in action. Scope photo shows input/output: It takes more than a zener. Photo of our old standalone voltage clamp, now built into the SafeGuard:

12-09-2003, 10:04 AM	#19
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 bastard child search FIRST, then PM!!!	yeah I know that the newer safegaurds had them built in...very cool. Take it easy, Micah

12-10-2003, 12:21 AM	#20
ImprezaRS dot com over boosted again Moderator Member#: 1458 Join Date: May 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Colorado Springs CO USA Vehicle: 2006 B9 Tribeca LTD 2005 Impreza 2.5 RS	Wow, that makes the J&S the cats meow now - didn't know about the clamp in it.