Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday July 13, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-04-2003, 01:10 PM   #1
aliengti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 30639
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Philly Suburbs
Vehicle:
'01 Silver RS Coupe

Question 2nd Gear Shifting Question In 2.5 RS

I am having one hell of a hard time shifting into second smoothly in my 2.5RS. I can start out fine but when second comes I always jerk the car. And I'm shifting at 3.5K. I am now reduced to easing the clutch out slowly, I think you guys call it "feathering" the clutch. I'm not sure on the terminology.

But it's kind of annoying me because I want to do it smoothly. It feels like I'm hurting the clutch when I go into second. So my question is, what speed and what rpm's should my car be so I can shift into second semi smoothly. Before anyone starts posting that the RS tranny is not very smooth I understand that. I just dont think second gear should be that jerky. And sometimes (but very rarely) I'll shift into second without too much fuss.
Should I increase my rpm's?

Thanks for any help, I just feel like an idiot when my car jerks unneccesarily going into second.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
aliengti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 02:29 PM   #2
That Guy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 23212
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza RS

Default

Is this your first MT? Everybody's a little rough in the beginning.

I usually shift below 3k. You really don't need to wind it up that higher unless you're trying to accelerate quickly. Try shifting at a lower engine speed and let the clutch out steadily, not slowly. And remember, you can cruise easily at 1500 even in top gear, so you don't have to rev it up so much.
That Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 02:37 PM   #3
aliengti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 30639
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Philly Suburbs
Vehicle:
'01 Silver RS Coupe

Default

Yes this is my first mt. I will try the lower rpm shift. And do you shift fast because I often find myself taking too long and therefore the revs drop on me.
aliengti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 03:07 PM   #4
QfactorRS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30495
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: RMV timeouts, Boston
Default

try this:

when you reach 3k rpm
-push clutch in 1/2 way
as you are doing this change gears from 1-> 2, when the shiufter is in neutral, release the clutch and press it in all the way, engage 2nd as you are pressing the clutch in for the 2nd time. Release the clutch normally.

Once the clutch is out all the way again, you can accelerate normally, after enough practice this should be smooth as a ladies bottoms, and it keeps your mileage down. For proof, i used to be able to achieve 375mi constantly from one fill up to another.

Q
QfactorRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 03:20 PM   #5
aliengti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 30639
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Philly Suburbs
Vehicle:
'01 Silver RS Coupe

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by QfactorRS
try this:

when you reach 3k rpm
-push clutch in 1/2 way
as you are doing this change gears from 1-> 2, when the shiufter is in neutral, release the clutch and press it in all the way, engage 2nd as you are pressing the clutch in for the 2nd time. Release the clutch normally.

Once the clutch is out all the way again, you can accelerate normally, after enough practice this should be smooth as a ladies bottoms, and it keeps your mileage down. For proof, i used to be able to achieve 375mi constantly from one fill up to another.

Q
Ok let me see if I get this..
I reach 3krpm
Press clutch half in
Move the shifter to N ?
Release clutch and move it into 2nd. ?
I'm not picturing it right in my head.
Doesn't the clutch have to be pressed all the way in before I switch to 2nd? And then I let the clutch pedal out.

I will try your tip but I dont think I get the "release the clutch and press it in all the way part"
When you mean release you mean to lift the foot of the clutch petal right?


I'm sad I know.
Please be patient with me. Thanks.
aliengti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 04:25 PM   #6
That Guy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 23212
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza RS

Default

He's telling you to double clutch. It works for some people, although it's not really necessary. I never could really double clutch smoothly. Anyway, keep trying and you'll get it right.
That Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 04:36 PM   #7
nunyo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 35575
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Tampa
Vehicle:
'07 Subaru OBS
Silver/Gray

Default

If you can teach yourself to double clutch in your first MT car, I highly recommend it. It will save you the frustration of trying to unlearn years of habit later. Double clutching is not really necessary for the vast majority of cars/conditions. However if you suspect that you may someday get reasonably serious about trackdays, or some form of motorsports, you'll want that ability. I'm trying to teach myself now after ten years of not double clutching. I just can't seem to get the hang of it.
nunyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 05:33 PM   #8
Supraru
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23313
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Collegeville,Pa
Vehicle:
99' 2.5Rs
black

Default

Don't confuse the guy...where in the philly burbs are you. If you want I'll go for a ride with you if we're close and give you some pointers. Maybe we'll go for a ride in the fresh snow!!!! Hope you have some blizzaks. lol
Supraru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 06:40 PM   #9
subarucyclist
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 29374
Join Date: Nov 2002
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 RS
Silverthorn

Default

I've had several manual cars, and my Suby is by far the most difficult to drive smoothly; I've heard it's because it has a fairly light flywheel/clutch assembly compared to other cars. Anyway...

I've noticed that it really helps to try rev matching. Like you said, the rev's drop fast, but if you give it a little gas to keep 'em up and let the clutch out gradually (not slow, but don't just drop it) then you can shift pretty smooth.

I can consistently get 350 miles on a tank, even with some hard driving in there, but it takes some time to master.
subarucyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 07:04 PM   #10
YaZahX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11932
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
1998 CW ITR
2006 NBP SI

Default

i think his problem will go away with time, it did for me. its all about the speed at which u go from 1st to 2nd, u will become more comfortable then it will be smoother
YaZahX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 07:58 PM   #11
aliengti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 30639
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Philly Suburbs
Vehicle:
'01 Silver RS Coupe

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Supraru
Don't confuse the guy...where in the philly burbs are you. If you want I'll go for a ride with you if we're close and give you some pointers. Maybe we'll go for a ride in the fresh snow!!!! Hope you have some blizzaks. lol
Hey man that sounds great if your up for it. I live in Paoli, about 15-20 minutes from Collegeville. I looked up some stuff on double clutching and in the reading I heard that you generally use that method when your car is equipped with a dog box. I know my rs doesnt have a dog box tranny.

I tried what Qfactor suggested but I always ended up losing rpms.Arrgh I just want to be able to shift into second smoothly. I guess the more I do it the better I'll get. I can rev match fine like If Im going 45 and need to slow to 30ish mph. I know to raise the rpms and then drop it into third without a problem... I suck
aliengti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 10:18 PM   #12
Supraru
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23313
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Collegeville,Pa
Vehicle:
99' 2.5Rs
black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by aliengti
Hey man that sounds great if your up for it. I live in Paoli, about 15-20 minutes from Collegeville. I looked up some stuff on double clutching and in the reading I heard that you generally use that method when your car is equipped with a dog box. I know my rs doesnt have a dog box tranny.

I tried what Qfactor suggested but I always ended up losing rpms.Arrgh I just want to be able to shift into second smoothly. I guess the more I do it the better I'll get. I can rev match fine like If Im going 45 and need to slow to 30ish mph. I know to raise the rpms and then drop it into third without a problem... I suck
Well depending on availibility I may be going to the mountains tomorrow after work for some spirited driving! So drop me a pm like monday or something.
Supraru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 10:18 PM   #13
Supraru
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23313
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Collegeville,Pa
Vehicle:
99' 2.5Rs
black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by aliengti
Hey man that sounds great if your up for it. I live in Paoli, about 15-20 minutes from Collegeville. I looked up some stuff on double clutching and in the reading I heard that you generally use that method when your car is equipped with a dog box. I know my rs doesnt have a dog box tranny.

I tried what Qfactor suggested but I always ended up losing rpms.Arrgh I just want to be able to shift into second smoothly. I guess the more I do it the better I'll get. I can rev match fine like If Im going 45 and need to slow to 30ish mph. I know to raise the rpms and then drop it into third without a problem... I suck
Well depending on availibility I may be going to the mountains tomorrow after work for some spirited driving! So drop me a pm like monday or something.
Supraru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 10:18 PM   #14
Supraru
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23313
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Collegeville,Pa
Vehicle:
99' 2.5Rs
black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by aliengti
Hey man that sounds great if your up for it. I live in Paoli, about 15-20 minutes from Collegeville. I looked up some stuff on double clutching and in the reading I heard that you generally use that method when your car is equipped with a dog box. I know my rs doesnt have a dog box tranny.

I tried what Qfactor suggested but I always ended up losing rpms.Arrgh I just want to be able to shift into second smoothly. I guess the more I do it the better I'll get. I can rev match fine like If Im going 45 and need to slow to 30ish mph. I know to raise the rpms and then drop it into third without a problem... I suck
Well depending on availibility I may be going to the mountains tomorrow after work for some spirited driving! So drop me a pm like monday or something.
Supraru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2003, 10:18 PM   #15
Supraru
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23313
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Collegeville,Pa
Vehicle:
99' 2.5Rs
black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by aliengti
Hey man that sounds great if your up for it. I live in Paoli, about 15-20 minutes from Collegeville. I looked up some stuff on double clutching and in the reading I heard that you generally use that method when your car is equipped with a dog box. I know my rs doesnt have a dog box tranny.

I tried what Qfactor suggested but I always ended up losing rpms.Arrgh I just want to be able to shift into second smoothly. I guess the more I do it the better I'll get. I can rev match fine like If Im going 45 and need to slow to 30ish mph. I know to raise the rpms and then drop it into third without a problem... I suck
Well depending on availibility I may be going to the mountains tomorrow after work for some spirited driving! So drop me a pm like monday or something.
Supraru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2003, 12:04 AM   #16
Snagtastic
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 43809
Join Date: Sep 2003
Default

Its so hard to shift smooth because there is so much inertia built up in the driveline.

A stock RS has a 25 pound flywheel! The stock flywheel on a 5.0 Mustang has a 22 or so pound flywheel.

My friend has a 13 pound aftermarket in his turbo RS and it shifts smooth as a honda.
Snagtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2003, 12:26 AM   #17
quest
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 42402
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: 4 inches south of :coffeemug:
Vehicle:
- Finder of Porn
-Bringer of tears...

Default

so lighter flywheel = smoother shifting, but harder to start from a dead stop? I'm a crappy RS shifter too (mostly if I'm trying to accelerate quickly).
quest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2003, 02:26 AM   #18
Coow
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48878
Join Date: Nov 2003
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by subarucyclist
I've had several manual cars, and my Suby is by far the most difficult to drive smoothly; I've heard it's because it has a fairly light flywheel/clutch assembly compared to other cars. Anyway...

I've noticed that it really helps to try rev matching. Like you said, the rev's drop fast, but if you give it a little gas to keep 'em up and let the clutch out gradually (not slow, but don't just drop it) then you can shift pretty smooth.

I can consistently get 350 miles on a tank, even with some hard driving in there, but it takes some time to master.
350 miles on a tank?? u mean 2001 2.5RS?? wow.......if so this is amazing, I only can go around 250-270 in full tank. am I driving my car wrongly??
Coow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2003, 02:32 AM   #19
Coow
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48878
Join Date: Nov 2003
Default

oh.......by the way, for the 2nd gear shift, I gotta same problem before too. It's getting little bit better now. try this.....maybe helps maybe not. clutch in for 2nd gear, then release the clutch to the point where's the first gear that the car start to move. Hold it there like a second, then release the clutch all the way slowly
try to see it's works or not=)
Coow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2003, 09:18 AM   #20
aliengti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 30639
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Philly Suburbs
Vehicle:
'01 Silver RS Coupe

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Coow
oh.......by the way, for the 2nd gear shift, I gotta same problem before too. It's getting little bit better now. try this.....maybe helps maybe not. clutch in for 2nd gear, then release the clutch to the point where's the first gear that the car start to move. Hold it there like a second, then release the clutch all the way slowly
try to see it's works or not=)
Yes that does work If I just hold the clutch in a little and let it out gradually while i accelerate. At what rpm do you shift into second?
aliengti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2003, 12:36 PM   #21
Coow
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48878
Join Date: Nov 2003
Default

2500-3000 rpm
for me....up to 35000rpm it's getting jerky too. you know...I had a jerking problem too when downshift(4th->3rd). do you?? or do u hv better way to downshift?? by the way....what's your full tank's milage?? the guy upstair said 350 for a tank. this is really something....cos I only got like 280 the most and I very easy on my gas panel.
Coow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2003, 12:46 PM   #22
DanzBorin
Subaru Bounty Hunter
Moderator
 
Member#: 7131
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston - Back in the Alief
Vehicle:
2008 STi DGM (3rd
STI) prev 05 STi (white)

Default

the jerky is related to AWD... when you pull the clutch out too fast, the center diff is getting a bit screwy... from what I understand, it isn't really bad, but just feels uncomfortable...

just hold the clutch in a tad bit longer and all should be fine...

and don't dump the clutch in any gear...

with these couple of things, you should be on your way...

now just learn to rev match and heel toe, and you will start having real fun...
DanzBorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2003, 01:12 PM   #23
subarucyclist
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 29374
Join Date: Nov 2002
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 RS
Silverthorn

Default

I do get 350 miles on a tank, but that's 80% freeway. Regular around-town driving I usually get about 280-300, same as everyone. Obviously it depends on how you drive.

For downshifting, I've learned to clutch in, shift, and then kinda throw a rev before letting the clutch out. It's a cheater way to rev-match, and since when you're downshifting, you're increasing engine speed, it helps to have the rev's on the way up, rather than on the way down. Kindof an inertia thing. That said, I still shift pretty slow. Done right coming into a hard corner and it's smooth, but you're in a better gear to exit the corner.

Added bonus, it sounds great.
subarucyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2003, 01:17 PM   #24
Coow
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48878
Join Date: Nov 2003
Default

thx man....I'll try it out later=)
but I think I dont understand is, what is "rev match" I always this term around but just dont know how. I mean does it has different rev match depending on the gear?? tip pls thx=)
Coow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2003, 01:21 PM   #25
subarucyclist
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 29374
Join Date: Nov 2002
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 RS
Silverthorn

Default

It's like this. If you're going 40mph in 3rd, let's say your RPM's are 2500. If you were going 40mph in 2nd, your RPM's would be 3500. First, 4500.

Rev matching means as you shift, you rev the engine to wherever the RPM's need to be for that gear/speed. So using the above, completely inaccurate numbers, shifting from 3rd to 1st at 40mph, you'd want to give it gas to rev the motor to around 4500 as you shift.

Some cars are easier to rev match than others, and as someone said earlier, I guess the AWD and heavy flywheel make it harder (all this time I thought the flywheel was light!).
subarucyclist is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
question about 2.5 rs SUPERAnimal Normally Aspirated Powertrain 3 11-02-2004 01:19 PM
Size of the gear shift knob in 2.5RS? mth Interior & Exterior Modification 2 06-01-2004 11:23 AM
New around Subarus- question about 2.5 RS upgrade to stock WRX turbocharger pgtkid Newbies & FAQs 2 09-08-2003 03:43 PM
JDM 2.0 wrx turbo in 2.5 rs? tabolau Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 8 05-17-2001 12:56 AM
Drop in wrx motor in 2.5 rs WillReckXhop Normally Aspirated Powertrain 1 03-23-2001 08:29 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.