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Old 10-03-2000, 09:37 AM   #1
Mike Smith
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Cool OT:Woman pursued by police for not buying toy for daughter!

At a local mall in Auburn, NY, a woman is seen dragging a small girl kicking and screaming into a van with out of state plates. The woman slams the door, jumps in the driver's seat and speeds away. Witnesses in the parking lot summon police, who immeadiatly begin scouring the countryside looking for the vehicle - roadblocks, APBs, the whole nine yards. A few hours later, they surround the van in a Wal-Mart parking lot about 20 miles away. After many tense moments, it is determined that yes, the woman is the girls' mother. Seems the kid was throwing a fit because Mom refused to buy her the latest Barbie. Rather than yell at her in the store, Mom just took out to the car and left. So being a responsible parent gets you on the wrong side of the law.
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Old 10-03-2000, 09:45 AM   #2
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I think it is basically the problem of how people are bringing up children these days. Too many toys, not enough constructive fun. Sit the kid in front of the TV and go do something else. It's all ridiculous. If you want to raise a good smart kid, you have to treat the kid well and you have to teach them and support them.

The people that give their kids everything they want end up with the kids that hate them the most in the end. Loving and caring goes a long way for kids... more then a lot of people ever acknowledge.

Pardon me for getting serious on this one... I've seen far too many spoiled brat children that grow up to be spoiled idiots whose parents buy them car after car as they wreck them and then float into a job because their parents are somewhere in the management above them.
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Old 10-03-2000, 09:48 AM   #3
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AMEN!!! You said it 8!!
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Old 10-03-2000, 10:00 AM   #4
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Preach on brother 8!!!

Spare the rod....spoil the child.
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Old 10-03-2000, 10:38 AM   #5
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8, how old are you? It seems... if you follow your own rules about parenthood, you're going to make a fine father. Maybe when I have kids, we can arrange a marriage. LOL!
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Old 10-03-2000, 10:46 AM   #6
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LOL, I'm 22... no children yet, still looking for a girl that isn't psycho though (they seem gravitationally attracted to me for some reason).
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Old 10-03-2000, 11:03 AM   #7
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I think it's certainly how kids are brought up these days. They are brought up to scream bloody murder if their parents do anything they don't like. Parents can't even spank their kids now, so they have no discipline. My parents spanked me and bro and we both turned out great - graduated high school at 16 and 17(brother) and went on to college and the military at those ages. We are now 21 and 23 and have our own homes, own brand new cars and have very good jobs. I am an honor student and my brother left the military with honor and awards.
Why? Because if we had pulled things like that, our Mom would have spanked our behinds, and unlike that child, we would have stopped fussing then and there instead of kicking and screaming like that child did. We would never have caused our mother that kind of embarrassment.
The long and short of it is -
Hate to sound old, but, geez, kids now days get no discipline.
Ok my2 centz are in.
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Old 10-03-2000, 11:15 AM   #8
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Thumbs down

Who gave the kids the idea that they can sue the parents for getting spanked?
Makes me sick, we got spanked at home a lot, deserved it everytime(if not more often) and didn't harm our egos a bit. Learned respect for personal property and towards others, things that those brats are missing.
How are you -as parent- supposed to show them their boundaries?
No kids that I have knowledge of yet...
;-)
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Old 10-03-2000, 11:28 AM   #9
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i think it's just a mainly north american mentality.
kids suing parents for spankings..."time outs" and all that stuff.

2 of my good friends are from Argentina and Venezuela. They're two of the nicest most rounded out people i've ever know and they didn't get spanked when they were kids...they got the BELT!

In terms of the world, i think the US is the biggest wimp on the block. can't do this, can't to that, that's bad for you, that's not good for you. We take everything way too seriously.

just a thought anyway...

-Tim
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Old 10-03-2000, 11:58 AM   #10
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I agree - my spankings were with and without the belt
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:10 PM   #11
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When I was young, I got the ***** kicked out of me by my dad. I agree that the young teens today are way too spoiled. Not just in the US, but also kids from HK. Man, I know kids that live in mansions here in US, driving BMWs and while their parents work in HK.

Sorry to say, I have no respect for kids/teens that grows up this way.

My 2cents !
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:15 PM   #12
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kids are very spoiled today, yes, but they need to be taught respect and discipline through means OTHER than physical, and IT IS possible, if only some people would get their 1950's heads outta their a$$es.. hehe
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:17 PM   #13
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In the origional post nothing is said of the woman hitting the child. She was dragging her kicking and screaming into the van. I don't know that this meant literally dragging the kid, but it sounded to me like she was just trying to get the kid into the van to go home and she didn't want to go. Of course some idiot probably saw this and figured to call the cops and blow it all out of proportion. I've heard of this happening before in a more extreme case where the child was with his mother and it just happened that the kid had sustained a hockey injury the day before and had a black eye. Some do-gooder who couldn't mind his own business saw them in a grocery store, followed them to their house to find out wher they lived and the next day a social worker came calling! Unbelievable. Of course they had witnesses and doctors reports and such, but still it's like your guilty untill proven innocent. What the hell's wrong with this country. The sad fact is it's only going to get worse.

[This message has been edited by Fred Zaplitny (edited October 03, 2000).]
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:21 PM   #14
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cant blame a good samaritan... what if, say, you had a relative who was being beaten by their spouse and refused to come forward about it... wouldn't you want some "do-gooder" to actually try and step in? of course, as mentioned earlier, a few simple questions goes a long way
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:23 PM   #15
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I personally would rather have my kids say, "I'm not supposed to do that because...." rather than, "I'm not supposed to do that because I'll get my ass whomped." I say that children should be taught to do the right thing, not beat. I don't hit my cat, I've never hit a girl, I've never hit a guy, except in self defense, I don't see why children should be hit. Everything I've ever learned, I learned through intellegent conversation or explanation. Violence teaches nothing, except in self defense.

That's just my way of thinking.
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:24 PM   #16
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i wholeheartedly agree with mikeYOXand am watching this thread like a hawk... hehe
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:26 PM   #17
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Ultraboy, I am 19. I and I experienced the same when I misbehaved I got punished...belt, paddle, hand whatever inflicted pain. I didnt like it at the time but I thank God every day that my parents raised my the way that they did. The kids now are really getting out of hand ( I realize that I am still only 19, but no longer consider myself a kid) I work at a mall on Saturdays when I am not here at school, and you would not believe the amount of 13 and 14 year old girls that look like they are 20-21 year olds on their way to the clubs. Disgusting! what kind of parents would let their kids dress this way. Some say freedom of expression. yeah right.
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:27 PM   #18
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If the bleeding heart fits......

Seriously, my remarks were mostly directed at the pervasive moral relativism that has dominated our culture since the late sixties.

The problem is I don't believe the pshcologists, they have statisitics, the other guy has statistics. Because you write a textbook that does not make one an authority and certainly doesn't mean that the author has found the truth.

Children respond to different stimulus at differrent ages. Try to explain to a three year old why she can't grab someone elses cake. Negative reinforcement works, positive reinforcement works, as does reasoning, though not all at the same time and in the same circumstance. It is important to have all these tools at your disposal and not rule one out because the prevailing experts disaggree with its effectiveness.

Question yourself, what has changed in the last 40 years? How did we get here? Are people differrent? Have our values changed? Has our attitude changed?. Have movies and entertainment changed?

Its funny that when spanking was much more pervasive and accepted we had a more civil society.

If you ask me, which you didn't the psychologists are full of it.

Knowlege gained from observation is worth 100 times that gained from 3rd parties (including books).

Tim

Mike Yox,
As I child I liked to be left alone, I drew pictures, built models, etc. There was always some kid in class that didn't wan't to leave me alone. He wanted to engage me for some reason. I did not want to be engaged, I was happy doing my own thing, all by my self bothering nobody. But this guy would not quit, something in him made him want to annoy me. I hit those kids, I hit them repeatedly. It was not my first choice of response, but it was also not my last choice response. I have never been a bully, but I have always felt a moral obligation to confront bullies. God blesses some kids with a quick wit and a sharp tounge, God blessed me with fast hands. Some people are arseholes, it is OK to resort to physical violence in dealing with those people.

I have not had to raise my hands in anger in over 18 years, but they are there if I need them.

Tim


[This message has been edited by boxerman (edited October 03, 2000).]
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:34 PM   #19
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kids are gettin worse however we cannot assume that simply cuz you dont beat them they all of a sudden dont have respect... theres a lot more to it than that...

take this whole damn country for instance, people here dont do bad things because "they know they'll get punished" as a result... pre-conventional psychological judgement, very little different from that of a stupid animal.

and yeah, you CANNOT assume that society is less civil simply because of all this "moral relativism that dominates society", pardon us for thinking more clearly and intellectually

[This message has been edited by KooshDogg (edited October 03, 2000).]
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:34 PM   #20
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What makes you think that this so-called moral breakdown is due to less spanking?
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:36 PM   #21
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jus curious boxerman, hehe how do you think psychologists got all their "knowledge from books?" you DONT think observation is a part of science?
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:51 PM   #22
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KooshDogg - I'd like to see you train a dog (or a cat for that matter, but you're better off trying to train a brick instead of the cat) without even smacking it on the nose.

BTW, referencing your above post - noone said beat. Spanking is much different then beating, it is controlled, limited, and only used when absolutely necessary.

Now I'm not saying that violence can solve everything, hell I never even said anything about spanking in the first place, but in the most primal sense, pain causes you to rethink things. Honestly, I'd like to see how many of the kids raised by the theory of 'teach them whats wrong' do those things again compared to the 'get spanked if you do it' kids.

*Please note the non-stance on spanking children to discipline them*

Also, please let's keep this from being a flame-war. I can see it can easily turn into it, but please be civil.

[This message has been edited by 8Complex (edited October 03, 2000).]
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Old 10-03-2000, 02:03 PM   #23
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Koosh,
They may get there info from observation, that is then interpreted and influenced by whatever baggage they carry with them. You in turn get diluted mush. Do your own observation.

I am not saying that the lack of spanking has caused the moral degradation of society, I think it is much more complicated, although I am pretty sure moral relativism and the corresponding lack of absolutes has contributed greatly. I think the breakdown of the traditional nuclear family has also contributed as has the vile trash that flows from Hollywood.

Today deviants try to convince everyone that they are not deviant, only differrent. They degrade the values of fidelity, honesty, selflessness, faith and loyalty as old fashioned. The new values are greed, vanity, gluttony (sexual and otherwise) irresponsibilty and selfishness. They glorify image over substance and live life as if this is all there is, so what the hell!

This is not a question of intellect but values. Are there eternal truths or perfect forms as the Greeks might say or is there nothing but our current situation. Is beauty in the eye of the beholder or is there an objective example of true beauty.

Who knows, but I have my leanings
Peace,
Tim

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Old 10-03-2000, 02:03 PM   #24
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Tim- I try not to hit bullies. Apparently there is a law against smacking people who don't hit you first. I just curse them out, use insults so low that the floor cracks, and they leave me alone. I also use threats of violence.

Quote:
Its funny that when spanking was much more pervasive and accepted we had a more civil society.
8Complex, judging from Tim's quote above, I'm betting he did mean spanking, and not just discipline. I taught my cat to everything I could ever want it to do without hitting it once. Ask anyone who knows how to properly train an animal, and they will tell you that you train it through incentive, not violence. Experts who train animals for movies and TV shows say that in their experience, animals that were hit became more resistant to perform their tricks and became very disobediant. Hitting an animal is a good way to train it to bite your ass and nothing else.

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Old 10-03-2000, 02:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Today deviants try to convince everyone that they are not deviant, only differrent. They degrade the values of fidelity, honesty, selflessness, faith and loyalty as old fashioned. The new values are greed, vanity, gluttony (sexual and otherwise) irresponsibilty and selfishness. They glorify image over substance and live life as if this is all there is, so what the hell!

This is not a question of intellect but values. Are there eternal truths or perfect forms as the Greeks might say or is there nothing but our current situation. Is beauty in the eye of the beholder or is there an objective example of true beauty
OK, now I agree with what you're saying. Morals have taken the backburner over the years, but as far as it being because of less spanking, I couldn't agree with you on that one, but I see what you're saying now.
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